DISCUSS!

author=harmonic link=topic=1084.msg15624#msg15624 date=1210371017
Every nation, whether or not it's as diverse as this one is, needs a cultural identity, of which language is the basis.

I disagree. What you're supporting here is called nationalism, and it's the bane of any sane society. It's about 90% of the reason we're in as bad a situation internationally as we are now, and it's the cause of basically every totalitarian state that ever took root.

A cultural identity isn't something we should be encouraging, if for no other reason than that it's a foregone conclusion to begin with. American culture has already taken over basically the entire globe. The fact that someone speaks predominantly a non-English language does not change the fact that they're buying McDonald's hamburgers and shopping at Wal-Mart, or that in the medium of entertainment, the most likely performers or artists that aren't from their own country that they're likely to recognize are going to be American.

Besides, what is exactly preserved about culture by telling people that when they talk to the government, they have to speak in English? And what exactly would change, seeing as I doubt most government workers are multilingual to begin with?

But if we do declare a national language, I think we should choose Creek or Cherokee or something. If we're going to defend national honor with an arbitrary assignment of language, we should at least choose one that started here.

Cajun French might also be acceptable. But there are only about five people left who speak it, so we'll have to hurry.

Also: it strikes me as an issue to be decided at the State level.

While I question the intentions of some of those who support English as an official language, defining a national language is by no means nationalism. Many countries have government-defined official languages.

Edit: Having said this, I wouldn't be surprised if Spanish becomes an official language in our country many years from now.

What is the official language of the US of A?

And if you think the US has an identity crisis, try living in Canada. Our motto is "We're not the US/Nous sont pas les Etat Unis".

author=Shadowtext link=topic=1084.msg15652#msg15652 date=1210385297

author=harmonic link=topic=1084.msg15630#msg15630 date=1210374205
So you're saying we should sacrifice who we are because if we want to define who we are, we're causing the problems of today?

I can't even begin to comprehend the concept of a mind which defines itself based on which country it's in. Especially since a country has never impressed me as anything more than an imaginary shape drawn on a giant rock, where a bunch of monkeys get together and decide to treat the the monkeys living in the other imaginary shapes as inferior.

Wow dude. That's just depressing. I can't even express in words how bleak and depressing this is.

author=harmonic link=topic=1084.msg15698#msg15698 date=1210427574
No, the human mind is not defined by which country we live in. Have you never learned about culture in school? Tradition? Patriotism? "Who we are" if you want to get really optimistic, is a shining beacon of hope for liberty across the world. Another person might say we're the harbinger of the apocalypse because of our sinful and decadent lifestyles. Has nothing to do with the oversimplified interpretation of us as monkeys on a giant rock. Sheesh, and I thought I had a bleak world view!

My world view isn't bleak, it's my view of nations, governments, and institutions that's bleak. I'm a gung-ho humanist. Culture is fine and dandy, but I don't see where I should be any more defensive of American culture than any other. What, just because I pay taxes in America, I should like Saturday Night Live more than Monty Python's Flying Circus? Oh, wait, SNL's produced by a Canadian, isn't it? Or you're talking more about America's political policies I'm supposed to be defending. Like the PATRIOT Act, the War Powers bill and the criminalization of clearly civil matters because the lobbying groups involved *cough*RIAA*cough* have more clout than the senators?

I consider myself a citizen of the world first, the human race second, my city third, my state fourth and my country a distant fifth. I care about the wellbeing of the people around me....but I don't particularly care what language they speak, or what culture they belong to. I don't understand why those would be considerations.

author=brandonabley link=topic=1084.msg15770#msg15770 date=1210447626
That picture is really funny!

I think that America should accept English as its official language because it is the language that almost all legal citizens of the US speak and because it is the language that almost all of the educated world conducts serious business. All of the founding documents of our country are written in language, almost all of its literature is, and all iconic pieces of American creativity (the Great American Novel, Rock and Roll music, etc) are written in the English language. It is our de facto official language and the language that identifies our country.

author=Shadowtext link=topic=1084.msg15628#msg15628 date=1210373311
I disagree. What you're supporting here is called nationalism, and it's the bane of any sane society. It's about 90% of the reason we're in as bad a situation internationally as we are now, and it's the cause of basically every totalitarian state that ever took root.

This is so far from Nationalism that I wish I could slap you through the internet :( Feeling that there is a heritage and an identity to a culture is not jingoistic, nationalistic, OR hubristic (look I can speak in NPR language too). Countries do have a national spirit and a national identity the same way that cities do and the same way that neighborhoods do and the same way that households do. You, of all people, being an enormous and unwavering Japanofile should know that Jesus Christ dude (not that there is anything wrong with that).

The internet's got such a kneejerk relationship with Japanese culture that anyone who shows a bit of interest in Japanese things is automatically labelled a Japanophile. No one accuses me of being an anglophile when I unabashedly rely on Britishisms for most of my slang and favorite comedies and my favorite authors (for both novels and comics), or of being a scandinaviophile when I develop a love for northern european synth-metal. Or of being a canadophile when a large number of my favorite performers are canadian. Or of being a latinophile for speaking Spanish and enjoying mariachi. Or of being a celtophile (which is a lot more on the mark, if you were to ask me) for my borderline obsession with Irish folklore and myth, music, and culture. But admit to liking the Pillows or hand-drawn cartoons with continuity or, gods forbid, jRPGs, and I'm a Japanophile!

See, but that's exactly it: my culture is decidedly not American. It's global. I pick and choose what I want to be part of based on what I enjoy. We're part of the internet generation, and anyone with any sense should see that the days of cultures being defined by physical location are going the way of vinyl records. Being attached to any particular aspect of culture simply because it's from the same country you are (or because it's from any country, for that matter) is insanity. There's a global buffet of culture to choose from, and choosing one based solely on where you are is....boring and unimaginative, at best.

And it is nationalism, Him. The idea of a cultural identity or spirit based on one's nation is the gods-damned definition of nationalism.

English is already our unofficial language, why not make it official?

author=Shadowtext link=topic=1084.msg15811#msg15811 date=1210451794
And it is nationalism, Him. The idea of a cultural identity or spirit based on one's nation is the gods-damned definition of nationalism.

This is just semantics. The definition of the word nationalism can be spun however you want. Your original USE of the word nationalism was quite clearly in the same vein as Jingoism, Warmongering, and Xenophobia (all major aspects of the bush administration) which means you were using it in a negative context.

It's just like "communism." If you want to be a dictionary-monger, the purest definition of communism is quite inane, but almost every time someone mentions the word, it's synonymous with "brutal socialist dictatorship" or "gulag prisons" or whatever.

A national identity is something every stable country has. Look at countries like Japan, Italy, Germany, England, even France. The latter two have a good amount of racial diversity, but there is a clear cultural identity. Japanland is just it... it's own world. Granted, almost everyone there is Japanese, but that's an example of extremely well-defined cultural identity.

author=Canuck link=topic=1084.msg15847#msg15847 date=1210469474
Usually English speakers in all countries are quite violently against having to learn another language. It's really quite strange.

American Culture is all over the world. English is unofficially the language of world commerce.

Also, we may be deathly opposed to learning Spanish, because this is an english-speaking country, and we're constantly told to be politically correct and not say that out loud. It's resentment, it's being silenced, it's anti-american.

Just FYI I took 5 years of Spanish, 4 in High School, 1 in College, and traveled to Mexico City and lived with a Mexican host family for a spring break trip.