Full Games List
Featured Games
New Games
Reviews
Media
Images
Blogs
Game Updates
Images Feedback Summary
Game Design Highlights
Tutorials
Articles
Scripts
Utilities / Plugins
Resources
Engines
Engine Bulletins
What is Makerscore?
Past Events
Achievements
Misaos
Forums
Post History
Chat
New to RMN?
Full Store List
RMN Music Pack (free)
MY FRIENDS THOUGHTS ON OLD MAKERS VS NEW ONES.
Posts
Jparker1984
2008
Jparker1984
View playlists
CloseOk, I just had a talk with my friend and he said something that made me hardcore face-palm myself. He asked me why I still use RM2K3 and I said "Because it's what I'm most used to." Then he said....wait for it......"You should switch to a new one, because with the newer engine, your game will be better." I almost had no reply to his statement, however I did say this. "The engine itself, will not insure your game will be good."
Your thoughts are very welcomed and I do intend to show him the results of this topic.
Your thoughts are very welcomed and I do intend to show him the results of this topic.
papasan96
1021
Well...I haven't used the older engines but from what I've heard and seen you can do more with the newer ones. So in that sense you could maybe make better games. Also, if you consider decent graphics to be part of a good game then the newer engines also have better graphical ability. Holding onto something because that's what you're used to is fine, but pretending it hasn't been superceded is a bit daft. I'm kind of with Craze on this one... Then again, I haven't upgraded to VXAce yet, mostly because I really don't like the chibi-style sprites.
Jparker1984
2008
Maybe your missing my point, or maybe I explained it poorly (I probably explained it poorly.) What my friend was meaning by that was, good games from the older engines cant stack up to games made with the newer engines. Basically, no matter how good your old engine game is, the newer engine games will always be better.
That's why I face-palmed. I have played many games from the 2K/3 era, that were way better then the VX/XP era (not to say they were bad, but just not as good.)
That's why I face-palmed. I have played many games from the 2K/3 era, that were way better then the VX/XP era (not to say they were bad, but just not as good.)
papasan96
1021
That's like saying all Xbox 360 games are better than any NES game, which is obviously, blindingly false. Hell, I can remember games on my ancient ZX spectrum which were better than some modern games. So if your friend believes this he is clearly an idiot and deserves to be throughly thrashed ^_^
Jparker1984
2008
author=papasan96
That's like saying all Xbox 360 games are better than any NES game, which is obviously, blindingly false. Hell, I can remember games on my ancient ZX spectrum which were better than some modern games. So if your friend believes this he is clearly an idiot and deserves to be throughly thrashed ^_^
LOL he is mad at me that I posted this. He just texted me, telling me he now realizes how dumb that sounded (what he said.)
Shinan
4314
author=papasan96
That's like saying all Xbox 360 games are better than any NES game, which is obviously, blindingly false. Hell, I can remember games on my ancient ZX spectrum which were better than some modern games. So if your friend believes this he is clearly an idiot and deserves to be throughly thrashed ^_^
I disagree with this. Of course I can't say "all" Xbox 360 games are better than "all" NES games. But I'm going to make up a number and say 90% of Xbox 360 games are better than NES games. Sure there are some outstandingly awesome NES games that can beat out the worst movie-license 360 games. But as a general rule old games aren't all that good.
Now the divide between NES and 360 is a bit larger than between rm2k3 and rmxp so the quality difference isn't as huge and especially early on in "a new system's" life there's going to be those that mastered the previous versions and can do all kinds of awesome in it while the new system is still just testing its legs.
But yeah.
Nostalgia =|= Quality
papasan96
1021
author=Shinan
Of course I can't say "all" Xbox 360 games are better than "all" NES games. But I'm going to make up a number and say 90% of Xbox 360 games are better than NES games.
author=Jparker1984
What my friend was meaning by that was, good games from the older engines cant stack up to games made with the newer engines. Basically, no matter how good your old engine game is, the newer engine games will always be better.
Sure, the majority of xbox games may be (I've never played one but I've played lots of crap NES games). But I was protesting against the assertion that they all are better. Wouldn't you agree that games like Zelda and Super Mario 3 can still stand up to many modern games?
But I'm not wallowing in nostalgia. Of course I'd rather play a new game on a new system, otherwise I'd just spend my days with emulators of dead machines. Likewise, there seems to be an inordinate amount of resistance in some circles to using the newer rpgmakers, even though as you say they're not so very different.
I am a true auteur, not some kind of capitalist driven hack who concerns themselves with such petty thought exercises as the novelty and potential futility of making a game in an older program when there exist newer programs with expanded sets of features that may or may not aid one on the path to realizing their artistic vision.
I make my games using the excrement from my own personnage, thus ensuring every circuit and hour spent grinding is an appropriate reflection of my tortured psyche and will leave the audience with thought and clouds of flies embedded into their neural pathways.
Why would I bother contemplating the mechanical differences between programs when I have already transcended these ideas?
I make my games using the excrement from my own personnage, thus ensuring every circuit and hour spent grinding is an appropriate reflection of my tortured psyche and will leave the audience with thought and clouds of flies embedded into their neural pathways.
Why would I bother contemplating the mechanical differences between programs when I have already transcended these ideas?
RPG Maker VX is basically defaulted handheld rpg games, using small sprites, even so you can import bigger chars.
The mapping is pretty easy to use.
The mapping is pretty easy to use.
Irili
3198
I would say that the newer makers are EASIER to use than the older ones. They are easier to pick up and use. I wouldn't necessarily say that the games are better by default, but that a person could make a good game more easily with the newer systems.
2k3 has limitations that ace does not
good games can be made with either maker
bad games can be made with either maker
a lot of people who use either engine are terrible game devs
some people who use either engine are great game devs
you can use any resources you want in ace you are not forced to use chibi sprites, they are like that because japan loves dragon quest and the series has always entirely been dedicated to making dragon quest clones, down to 2k/3s damage formulas
my position is that if you're new or want to make a game that is truly your own, go with ace since scripting is really nice and even just using yanfly and i's scripts you can do a lot to customize your game (dear shump, plugging in scripts is not inherently bad; some idiots who think that scripts = features = awesome game does not mean we are all like that, please stop conflating us/circle-jerking)
even i'm fucking sick of this discussion
fake edit: i'm really impressed with how many responses and viewpoints i crammed into here
good games can be made with either maker
bad games can be made with either maker
a lot of people who use either engine are terrible game devs
some people who use either engine are great game devs
you can use any resources you want in ace you are not forced to use chibi sprites, they are like that because japan loves dragon quest and the series has always entirely been dedicated to making dragon quest clones, down to 2k/3s damage formulas
my position is that if you're new or want to make a game that is truly your own, go with ace since scripting is really nice and even just using yanfly and i's scripts you can do a lot to customize your game (dear shump, plugging in scripts is not inherently bad; some idiots who think that scripts = features = awesome game does not mean we are all like that, please stop conflating us/circle-jerking)
even i'm fucking sick of this discussion
fake edit: i'm really impressed with how many responses and viewpoints i crammed into here
Radnen
1806
Confused Sphere user is confused. What's VX? Ace? Too many engines to count. O.O no wonder there are mixed attitudes on the subject.
A good game is in the hands of the maker; the engine is just a tool. But when it comes to features and limitations, if newer engines can do what the older engines do and then some, then the newer engines are better.
Consider This:
Assume you are equally good with VX and 2k3. If VX can make a game that looks just like a 2k3 game, then VX is superior. If however you can't do something in VX that you can do in 2k3, then for that particular instance 2k3 is better.
For Sphere there are no comparisons, as because it remains the same tool, it wasn't built with draconian restrictions and limitations that riddled 2k and 2k3, so its not like it needed newer versions to add things it could not support. The downside is like blacksmithing it can be very draconian to use, yet highly rewarding.
A good game is in the hands of the maker; the engine is just a tool. But when it comes to features and limitations, if newer engines can do what the older engines do and then some, then the newer engines are better.
Consider This:
Assume you are equally good with VX and 2k3. If VX can make a game that looks just like a 2k3 game, then VX is superior. If however you can't do something in VX that you can do in 2k3, then for that particular instance 2k3 is better.
For Sphere there are no comparisons, as because it remains the same tool, it wasn't built with draconian restrictions and limitations that riddled 2k and 2k3, so its not like it needed newer versions to add things it could not support. The downside is like blacksmithing it can be very draconian to use, yet highly rewarding.
Emirpoen
1746
author=Craze
2k3 has limitations that ace does not
good games can be made with either maker
bad games can be made with either maker
a lot of people who use either engine are terrible game devs
some people who use either engine are great game devs
you can use any resources you want in ace you are not forced to use chibi sprites, they are like that because japan loves dragon quest and the series has always entirely been dedicated to making dragon quest clones, down to 2k/3s damage formulas
my position is that if you're new or want to make a game that is truly your own, go with ace since scripting is really nice and even just using yanfly and i's scripts you can do a lot to customize your game (dear shump, plugging in scripts is not inherently bad; some idiots who think that scripts = features = awesome game does not mean we are all like that, please stop conflating us/circle-jerking)
even i'm fucking sick of this discussion
fake edit: i'm really impressed with how many responses and viewpoints i crammed into here
While you do make some good points craze, this post is still rather ironic, and in a bad way might I add.
Jparker1984
2008
author=Craze
2k3 has limitations that ace does not
good games can be made with either maker
bad games can be made with either maker
a lot of people who use either engine are terrible game devs
some people who use either engine are great game devs
you can use any resources you want in ace you are not forced to use chibi sprites, they are like that because japan loves dragon quest and the series has always entirely been dedicated to making dragon quest clones, down to 2k/3s damage formulas
my position is that if you're new or want to make a game that is truly your own, go with ace since scripting is really nice and even just using yanfly and i's scripts you can do a lot to customize your game (dear shump, plugging in scripts is not inherently bad; some idiots who think that scripts = features = awesome game does not mean we are all like that, please stop conflating us/circle-jerking)
even i'm fucking sick of this discussion
fake edit: i'm really impressed with how many responses and viewpoints i crammed into here
I totaly agree with...would have worded things differently, but I agree.
If you haven't started anything serious on rm2k3 and are thinking about learning ruby then you should use Ace, it's way less limited than rm2k3.
Still, rm2k3 can also produce good games, it depends on the developer. Technologically speaking they are inferior to Ace games, but that doesn't mean the games themselves are inferior.
If you started a big project in rm2k3 then you'll probably finish it there. Migrating everything to a another program is tough work. Plus, you already know your way around rm2k3.
I couldn't disagree more with this, good games are not dependent on their hardware limitations. Good games are just good independently of the technology used. A good game is like a classic book or movie, it's timeless.
Still, rm2k3 can also produce good games, it depends on the developer. Technologically speaking they are inferior to Ace games, but that doesn't mean the games themselves are inferior.
If you started a big project in rm2k3 then you'll probably finish it there. Migrating everything to a another program is tough work. Plus, you already know your way around rm2k3.
author=Shinan
Of course I can't say "all" Xbox 360 games are better than "all" NES games. But I'm going to make up a number and say 90% of Xbox 360 games are better than NES games. Sure there are some outstandingly awesome NES games that can beat out the worst movie-license 360 games. But as a general rule old games aren't all that good
I couldn't disagree more with this, good games are not dependent on their hardware limitations. Good games are just good independently of the technology used. A good game is like a classic book or movie, it's timeless.
Jparker1984
2008
author=iddalai
If you haven't started anything serious on rm2k3 and are thinking about learning ruby then you should use Ace, it's way less limited than rm2k3.
Still, rm2k3 can also produce good games, it depends on the developer. Technologically speaking they are inferior to Ace games, but that doesn't mean the games themselves are inferior.
If you started a big project in rm2k3 then you'll probably finish it there. Migrating everything to a another program is tough work. Plus, you already know your way around rm2k3
I am in the middle of a huge project in 2k3. for the sequel i did plan to go with ACE.
