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NEED ANSWERS TO MAKE A GOOD TRADITIONAL RPG GAME II (NOT NECESSARILY ASKING HOW TO MAKE A GOOD TRADITIONAL RPG)
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KhaliCanvas Studios
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CloseTRADITIONAL GAMEPLAY
The elemental system
is overused but it makes for great strategies due to the rock-paper-scissor effect.
Status effects
Burn, paralyzed, poison, buffs, debuffs and etc. is all I can think of when it come to status effects. Status effects definitely makes games more fun, but I can't seem to figure out any new ones.
In both cases I don't want to do what has been done probably ever since the fisrt turn based rpg but these are very important to give depth to the gameplay.
STORIES
How do I make compelling stories for rpgs. The way I come up with the stories for games is too straight foreword. I mean there's a plots and motives but nothing much.
Story thus fur:
3 friends get lost while having fun. Discovers mysterious artifacts that help them fight monsters. They try to get back home.
My thoughts:
Great start but only a start. Can't seem to build on it. I always see the overall picture but just can't make a rich story, a story connecting different areas and making the game feel non linear.
The way I see it right now is get from area A to G, for which have to cross area B, C, D, E and F. But games with great stories are more like you have to get from area A to area B, but along the way the story unfolds in such a way that it motives the player and the character to go to area B from A, then to C, then to D and so on. I know this is confusing but bear with me please.
ORIGINAL GAMEPLAY
Crucial items.
3 artifacts
When equipped grants the 'equipper' an ability.
Either non magic abilities, magic abilities or support abilites.
Obviously 1 character can't equip more then 1 at a time.
EDIT:
A lot more then 3 artifacts
To be found throughout the journey
Finding them will be a part of the plot
A few hidden ones
Activates different sets of skills for each character
May have other effects
Character may or may not learn new permanent skills when they level up.
Example: 1 for fire magic, 1 for ice magic, 1 for non elemental magic, one for status recovery, 1 for status inflection, 1 for buffs etc.
Dungeons
are divided into tiles. Each tile either spans an enemy, item or recovers hp or sp.
Tiles look different according to its application and so its obvious which does what.
If each an every tile is to be evented the screen is going to be cluttered and the sheer amount of labor would mean that the game is never going to get finished, and wont probably make a good game either.
If few tiles are evented then enemies will be too less in number and easy to avoid, while the benefits will be easy to gain.
EDIT:Found a fix for the tile issue.. I think. 'Impassible Tile'
Any and all ideas and suggestions are welcomed.
The elemental system
is overused but it makes for great strategies due to the rock-paper-scissor effect.
Status effects
Burn, paralyzed, poison, buffs, debuffs and etc. is all I can think of when it come to status effects. Status effects definitely makes games more fun, but I can't seem to figure out any new ones.
In both cases I don't want to do what has been done probably ever since the fisrt turn based rpg but these are very important to give depth to the gameplay.
STORIES
How do I make compelling stories for rpgs. The way I come up with the stories for games is too straight foreword. I mean there's a plots and motives but nothing much.
Story thus fur:
3 friends get lost while having fun. Discovers mysterious artifacts that help them fight monsters. They try to get back home.
My thoughts:
Great start but only a start. Can't seem to build on it. I always see the overall picture but just can't make a rich story, a story connecting different areas and making the game feel non linear.
The way I see it right now is get from area A to G, for which have to cross area B, C, D, E and F. But games with great stories are more like you have to get from area A to area B, but along the way the story unfolds in such a way that it motives the player and the character to go to area B from A, then to C, then to D and so on. I know this is confusing but bear with me please.
ORIGINAL GAMEPLAY
Crucial items.
3 artifacts
When equipped grants the 'equipper' an ability.
Either non magic abilities, magic abilities or support abilites.
Obviously 1 character can't equip more then 1 at a time.
EDIT:
A lot more then 3 artifacts
To be found throughout the journey
Finding them will be a part of the plot
A few hidden ones
Activates different sets of skills for each character
May have other effects
Character may or may not learn new permanent skills when they level up.
Example: 1 for fire magic, 1 for ice magic, 1 for non elemental magic, one for status recovery, 1 for status inflection, 1 for buffs etc.
Dungeons
are divided into tiles. Each tile either spans an enemy, item or recovers hp or sp.
Tiles look different according to its application and so its obvious which does what.
If each an every tile is to be evented the screen is going to be cluttered and the sheer amount of labor would mean that the game is never going to get finished, and wont probably make a good game either.
If few tiles are evented then enemies will be too less in number and easy to avoid, while the benefits will be easy to gain.
EDIT:Found a fix for the tile issue.. I think. 'Impassible Tile'
Any and all ideas and suggestions are welcomed.
JustRob
30
the title was in allcaps so i came immediately but then the text was too long so i didn't read
Milennin
2060
author=JustRob
the title was in allcaps so i came immediately but then the text was too long so i didn't read
Lol, same.xD
Well, it looks like I'm the only one that actually read all of that. And I've seen bigger walls of text.
Anyway, sounds pretty interesting. I'm a sucker for games where you can customize stuff, and equipping different items to get different abilities sounds fun! I tend to suck at these kinds of games though because I'm not very strategic when it comes to customization... But that's besides the point
I like the Mario Party-ish sound of the dungeons! Speaking of which, you could reference it as to how to set up your dungeons! (but with more bad monster tiles) If your game has towns or any rest points where you can buy things, than you could have some tiles that give you some gold! Or items or some random event or something like that! Once again: Mario Party!
The story... it sounds okay enough, but doesn't quite sound like it would pull me in unless the characters were very well developed. You could find a way to make it more interesting, like maybe some mysterious evil force is looking for the artifacts or the neighboring country wants the artifacts so that they can wage war on another country... Something like that!
Whew... This sounds like a good game idea! I want to play it now! Make it!
Anyway, sounds pretty interesting. I'm a sucker for games where you can customize stuff, and equipping different items to get different abilities sounds fun! I tend to suck at these kinds of games though because I'm not very strategic when it comes to customization... But that's besides the point
I like the Mario Party-ish sound of the dungeons! Speaking of which, you could reference it as to how to set up your dungeons! (but with more bad monster tiles) If your game has towns or any rest points where you can buy things, than you could have some tiles that give you some gold! Or items or some random event or something like that! Once again: Mario Party!
The story... it sounds okay enough, but doesn't quite sound like it would pull me in unless the characters were very well developed. You could find a way to make it more interesting, like maybe some mysterious evil force is looking for the artifacts or the neighboring country wants the artifacts so that they can wage war on another country... Something like that!
Whew... This sounds like a good game idea! I want to play it now! Make it!
Okay, I'll keep my thoughts brief :)
TRADITIONAL GAMEPLAY
Your traditional gameplay elements and your original gameplay elements should be one in the same; I find it is best not to include elements simply because they are expected, but to include them because they make sense for the gameplay. The best turn-based RPGs have an intricately balanced and playtested system that makes use of all of the abilities at a player's disposal. In that light, if an element serves little purpose in your game, the game will be better off without it. I recommend systematically going through every ability, stat, item, etc. in your game, and writing out its specific application in a separate document. It's more work, but it will make playtesting much easier.
STORIES
Much like with gameplay, you need to understand the conventions of RPG (and by extension heroic) storytelling more deeply as a designer than as a player. Heroic stories tend to fall into the basic 'beats' of what Joseph Campbell described as the "monomyth". Campbell described the monomyth as follows:
A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder: fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to bestow boons on his fellow man.
You can read more about the monomyth here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth
It's not the only way to tell a story, but it is a good one; I advise thinking about how the elements of your game world and your game characters could fit into a monomyth.
ORIGINAL GAMEPLAY
The 'Crucial Items' sound like they could introduce some interesting new mechanics to the game, so long as they are used and not gimmicky.
Your dungeon idea could work; it does sound rather unusual, but I'd really have to see an example screenshot of what you mean before commenting on your idea in any detail. Depending on the size of the dungeon, having every tile do something could become vary tedious. I also believe you can accomplish your goal more easily with common events, random percentages, and terrain tags than with actually eventing every tile.
TRADITIONAL GAMEPLAY
Your traditional gameplay elements and your original gameplay elements should be one in the same; I find it is best not to include elements simply because they are expected, but to include them because they make sense for the gameplay. The best turn-based RPGs have an intricately balanced and playtested system that makes use of all of the abilities at a player's disposal. In that light, if an element serves little purpose in your game, the game will be better off without it. I recommend systematically going through every ability, stat, item, etc. in your game, and writing out its specific application in a separate document. It's more work, but it will make playtesting much easier.
STORIES
Much like with gameplay, you need to understand the conventions of RPG (and by extension heroic) storytelling more deeply as a designer than as a player. Heroic stories tend to fall into the basic 'beats' of what Joseph Campbell described as the "monomyth". Campbell described the monomyth as follows:
A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder: fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to bestow boons on his fellow man.
You can read more about the monomyth here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth
It's not the only way to tell a story, but it is a good one; I advise thinking about how the elements of your game world and your game characters could fit into a monomyth.
ORIGINAL GAMEPLAY
The 'Crucial Items' sound like they could introduce some interesting new mechanics to the game, so long as they are used and not gimmicky.
Your dungeon idea could work; it does sound rather unusual, but I'd really have to see an example screenshot of what you mean before commenting on your idea in any detail. Depending on the size of the dungeon, having every tile do something could become vary tedious. I also believe you can accomplish your goal more easily with common events, random percentages, and terrain tags than with actually eventing every tile.
author=wildwesYes. That's what I am talking about. Now that does sound interesting.
The story... it sounds okay enough, but doesn't quite sound like it would pull me in unless the characters were very well developed. You could find a way to make it more interesting, like maybe some mysterious evil force is looking for the artifacts or the neighboring country wants the artifacts so that they can wage war on another country... Something like that!
author=Lucidstillness
Your dungeon idea could work; it does sound rather unusual, but I'd really have to see an example screenshot of what you mean before commenting on your idea in any detail. Depending on the size of the dungeon, having every tile do something could become vary tedious. I also believe you can accomplish your goal more easily with common events, random percentages, and terrain tags than with actually eventing every tile.
Okay! I will show you the screenshots in about... 3 months. Ha! Ha!
Sorry, but seriously, I have my AS exams in about a month and its gonna last at least 1 and a half month.
so, its gonna be a while before I can actually start making a game. The bit I shared about my game are the bit I came up with when I just could't help but think about making games.
And thanx for the monomyth thingy too.
Found a fix for the tile issue.. I think.
'Impassible Tile'
'Impassible Tile'
author=CrazeWhy?
I'm laughing so hard right now
Avee
5794
My advice to you, Saiten, is to scale down this game concept and start making the game already so you can playtest what you have in mind.
Overthinking the design and mechanics won't help you at this point. You'd be best to make a short, playable sample of the game and test it to see whether these ideas make for an enjoyable experience or not.
We all learn a lot more by playing demos than by brewing up concepts.
Overthinking the design and mechanics won't help you at this point. You'd be best to make a short, playable sample of the game and test it to see whether these ideas make for an enjoyable experience or not.
We all learn a lot more by playing demos than by brewing up concepts.
your story (all three sentences of it) is perfectly fine for an RPG. the bigger issue is your inability to go anywhere with it even though it provides you with a ridiculous amount of freedom. if you're honestly at a loss for ideas this early in pre-production and can't even come up with generic fantasy cliches to use, you really aren't trying/don't care about this project/have no interest in writing, so either get someone who does (there are many 'writers' on RMN that don't make anything because they hate mapping or something and as a result create nothing ever) and focus on other areas of development, or just uninstall rpgmaker.
as for your gameplay...
so wait
you have three characters
and you have three items that give abilities
assuming your characters have different stats, why would you ever equip the magic artifact item on anybody but the character with the highest magic stat? the same goes for the non-magic ('physical'?) one. why would i ever equip it on anybody but the person with the highest attack?
this is not a gameplay element. it's completely superfluous nonsense that gives the player illusions of depth without actually providing any, akin to most modern Final Fantasy games. you might as well just give the characters that are good at each of these the skills on the artifacts and make them (the artifacts) entirely a plot point.
as for your gameplay...
so wait
you have three characters
and you have three items that give abilities
assuming your characters have different stats, why would you ever equip the magic artifact item on anybody but the character with the highest magic stat? the same goes for the non-magic ('physical'?) one. why would i ever equip it on anybody but the person with the highest attack?
this is not a gameplay element. it's completely superfluous nonsense that gives the player illusions of depth without actually providing any, akin to most modern Final Fantasy games. you might as well just give the characters that are good at each of these the skills on the artifacts and make them (the artifacts) entirely a plot point.
author=KarsumanSlow down there bro. This is only a beginning, haven't really sat down with the project yet.
you have three characters
and you have three items that give abilities
assuming your characters have different stats, why would you ever equip the magic artifact item on anybody but the character with the highest magic stat? the same goes for the non-magic ('physical'?) one. why would i ever equip it on anybody but the person with the highest attack?
this is not a gameplay element. it's completely superfluous nonsense that gives the player illusions of depth without actually providing any, akin to most modern Final Fantasy games. you might as well just give the characters that are good at each of these the skills on the artifacts and make them (the artifacts) entirely a plot point.
EDIT:each character represents a different element. The magic artificial will grant ice magic to the character representing water/ice, fire magic for fire and so on. Non magic artifact granting only physical skills some elemental and some not, and support artifact granting both non elemental and elemental buffs and debuffs (but again fire for fire character and water for water character)
author=SaitenHazard
so, its gonna be a while before I can actually start making a game. The bit I shared about my game are the bit I came up with when I just could't help but think about making games.
Well, if you are still in the pre-production stage, I recommend just brainstorming what you want the game to actually be about. Take a notebook with you wherever you go, and just jot down ideas as they come to you. At this stage, there really isn't any useful advice we can provide.
One tip; I find it is best to dream big, and then gradually make concessions as to the scope and amount of content in your game. This is typically how professional game designers approach the task, from what I've read.
Remember, it is believed that over 90% of RPG Maker games are never finished. Let that fact inspire you to completion.
author=SaitenHazard
Slow down there bro.
No.
author=SaitenHazard
EDIT:each character represents a different element. The magic artificial will grant ice magic to the character representing water/ice, fire magic for fire and so on. Non magic artifact granting only physical skills some elemental and some not, and support artifact granting both non elemental and elemental buffs and debuffs (but again fire for fire character and water for water character)
This changes nothing.
What I was saying is that, with only three characters and three artifacts between them (six possible 'party compositions') is that there will always be a very easy to discern 'best choice', effectively making this a non-choice. short of forcing me to change my artifact setup to simply survive your battles, another non-choice, what would make me want to swap these artifacts when I've found what works the best?
tl;dr: for a customization system, it's very limited and people will almost always use what is comfortable for them/the best unless otherwise forced to change their setup, which isn't fun either.
author=KarsumanAs much as I would like to say you are wrong your not. Been thinking a lot about it and I think you will like this.
What I was saying is that, with only three characters and three artifacts between them (six possible 'party compositions') is that there will always be a very easy to discern 'best choice', effectively making this a non-choice. short of forcing me to change my artifact setup to simply survive your battles, another non-choice, what would make me want to swap these artifacts when I've found what works the best?
tl;dr: for a customization system, it's very limited and people will almost always use what is comfortable for them/the best unless otherwise forced to change their setup, which isn't fun either.
A lot more then 3 artifacts
To be found throughout the journey
Finding them will be a part of the plot
A few hidden ones
Activates different sets of skills for each character
May have other effects
Characters no longer represent different elements
Character may or may not learn new permanent skills when they level up.
Example: 1 for fire magic, 1 for ice magic, 1 for non elemental magic, one for status recovery, 1 for status inflection, 1 for buffs etc.
LeviathanIce
1623
You should write the story first; then your pieces will fit into it. Ask yourself questions when you write. For example - they found the artifacts, why were the artifacts created to begin with? What were they used for? OH, they were used to fight different types of demons? OK, so now you have types of demons, and how to hurt them. Well, what kind of demons were they? Good, neutral and evil? Oh so you need to use the pure, the dark, and the gray artifacts to fight them?! ooo! See, now I'm getting interested, and I'm just rambling!!
Just write the story and ask yourself questions. Remember, this is the FUN part. =D
Just write the story and ask yourself questions. Remember, this is the FUN part. =D
eplipswich
2728
Well, for your story, Saiten, there are many ways to go about it. It could be that they discover those artifacts to help them fight monsters but there may actually be dire consequences to discovering and using them. You could also involve multiple parties with those artifacts, like an ancient curse in those artifacts and even a leader of some dark organisation who wants those artifacts to rule the world, things like that.
Brainstorm story ideas that don't seem straightforward. Don't just confine yourself to one area. Branch out! Then have all those branches connect together as one in the end.
And from the way I see it, I don't think finding the artifacts is exactly part of your plot. More like stumbling upon them, since your story states that the 3 people discover the artifacts when they got lost, so those three can't possibly "find" them in the beginning. Maybe at a later stage, though.
Brainstorm story ideas that don't seem straightforward. Don't just confine yourself to one area. Branch out! Then have all those branches connect together as one in the end.
And from the way I see it, I don't think finding the artifacts is exactly part of your plot. More like stumbling upon them, since your story states that the 3 people discover the artifacts when they got lost, so those three can't possibly "find" them in the beginning. Maybe at a later stage, though.
LX_Theo
60
A great way to gain story ideas is to base the actions of the group off the characters. What I mean by this is that well developed and interesting characters will often lead to a natural progression of the story since you can better gage how they'll react to everything.
Generally, that strategy is considered a strong jumping off point for plots.
Generally, that strategy is considered a strong jumping off point for plots.
This belongs in Dudesoft's Handyman Corner!
Nonetheless, I'll respond here.
Story.
It is essential to your project! Consider those boring writing projects you did in Highschool. Or more appropriately, the book reports you had to fill out.
In books, movies, comics and even games the format is mostly the same.
The beginning introduces characters, what is normal in the world, what changes normal, how the characters decide to react to the change and that fun stuff. Sounds like you have that much sorted out!
Next we have the rising action. The meat of your story, that tells maybe more about youe character's backgrounds, personalities and beliefs as they toil through trials.
At the end, we want to see the characters changed. What is the result pf their toils through the rising action? What have they learned? Or maybe how can they make the world normal again?
If you pull any protagonist, from any game/book/etc, you're likely going to find they follow this basic crap.
Harry Potter. Miserable weird kid lives with horrible aunt and uncle. Birds start bringing him letters; eventually leading him to the school pf Wizardry. He toils through stuff, becomes a much more happy person by the end, and after all his trials faces off against the shadow of his parent's murder--the man who inevitably landed him with his horrible aunt and uncle.
Squall Leonhart; we learn amply that he is a military student/graduate and the world is full of tech and magic. Squall is nearly killed during an assassination attempt. And so on.
Alan Grant; a brilliant dinosaur archeaologist. Especially fond of raptors. Hates kids. Gets invited to to an exclusive sneak-peek to a Dinosaur park. The dinosaurs break loose! Stuff happens. Has to protect two kids. Is hunted by raptors. Alan barely escapes island alive.
Marty McFly; a talented guitarist, slacker at school, unpunctual, hangs out with a nutty professor... Gets into a time machine. In the past he accidentally stops his parents from meeting and ruins his family history. Stuff happens. Last chance to save his parent's marriage, he has to play the guitar and then make it back to the time machine in time to get away to the futurs.
These are just examples. The point is, without a story --even just a summary like that-- you're doomed to failure. Trust me. It's worth thought.
To me, your story sounds like the start of the movie Chronicle.
I recommend watching it. That sort of story arch would be incredible in a RPG. It would totally shift away from the typical.
Nonetheless, I'll respond here.
Story.
It is essential to your project! Consider those boring writing projects you did in Highschool. Or more appropriately, the book reports you had to fill out.
In books, movies, comics and even games the format is mostly the same.
The beginning introduces characters, what is normal in the world, what changes normal, how the characters decide to react to the change and that fun stuff. Sounds like you have that much sorted out!
Next we have the rising action. The meat of your story, that tells maybe more about youe character's backgrounds, personalities and beliefs as they toil through trials.
At the end, we want to see the characters changed. What is the result pf their toils through the rising action? What have they learned? Or maybe how can they make the world normal again?
If you pull any protagonist, from any game/book/etc, you're likely going to find they follow this basic crap.
Harry Potter. Miserable weird kid lives with horrible aunt and uncle. Birds start bringing him letters; eventually leading him to the school pf Wizardry. He toils through stuff, becomes a much more happy person by the end, and after all his trials faces off against the shadow of his parent's murder--the man who inevitably landed him with his horrible aunt and uncle.
Squall Leonhart; we learn amply that he is a military student/graduate and the world is full of tech and magic. Squall is nearly killed during an assassination attempt. And so on.
Alan Grant; a brilliant dinosaur archeaologist. Especially fond of raptors. Hates kids. Gets invited to to an exclusive sneak-peek to a Dinosaur park. The dinosaurs break loose! Stuff happens. Has to protect two kids. Is hunted by raptors. Alan barely escapes island alive.
Marty McFly; a talented guitarist, slacker at school, unpunctual, hangs out with a nutty professor... Gets into a time machine. In the past he accidentally stops his parents from meeting and ruins his family history. Stuff happens. Last chance to save his parent's marriage, he has to play the guitar and then make it back to the time machine in time to get away to the futurs.
These are just examples. The point is, without a story --even just a summary like that-- you're doomed to failure. Trust me. It's worth thought.
To me, your story sounds like the start of the movie Chronicle.
I recommend watching it. That sort of story arch would be incredible in a RPG. It would totally shift away from the typical.
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