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MONSTER CREATION, DESIGN AND INSPIRATIONS
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Liberty
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CloseWe all have monsters from games and other places that we consider inspirational, interesting and just plain bad-ass. What are these monsters, why do we think they're so amazing, what kind of thought went into their designs and how do you create your own monsters in your own games?
Feel free to discuss in this topic. Please don't try to argue too much - let's keep this friendly, folks!
Feel free to discuss in this topic. Please don't try to argue too much - let's keep this friendly, folks!
from=Favorite Enemies or Bosses
Dear lord. If you've not played this game you just can't understand. The Red Arremer is the most evil and sadistic enemy to ever appear in a video game. Not necessarily because of it's difficulty but because it taunts you by it's demeanor and methods of attacking. It will sit and wait for you to either approach it or attack, where it takes to the air and the fight for your life begins.
The Red Arremer has 5 actions it can perform.
-A swooping attack where it marks the player's position, and moves in a parabola arc.
-The above move twice in a row.
-Shoot a fireball that heads straight for your position.
-Summon imp minions and send them straight for you.
-Lands on the ground and begins dancing back and forth in an extremely asinine way. I see it as mocking the player's running animation. It will sometimes get a burst of speed and run right into you.
Combine all of that with an uncanny ability to dodge: It is almost regardless of how far away you are from it, it will deftly move out of the way of nearly all your shots. The only time you can hit it is if you anticipate the direction it will dodge and compensate by attacking slightly toward that spot, or hit it when it's swooping at you.
This would not necessarily be that hard in any other game. But in Ghouls n' Ghosts you are only able to take a single hit: The second one kills you. And you can only jump in a predetermined arc. The controls aren't the problem, its that the Red Arremer is the perfect counter to your control scheme. The parabola arc will nearly always hit you if you don't learn it's timing and jump at the right moment, in the right direction, at the right distance. Nevermind attacking the thing. The double-swoop...I still don't know how to avoid that one. At that point, the parabola basically turns into an angle: He can attack you almost anywhere, even in the air or on the ground. I am not exaggerating when I say that this one enemy is harder than any of the bosses in the game. Yet I love this guy. More than any enemy in the game, this one really makes you sweat. And when you beat it you know that whatever the game throws at you afterward is now a moot point. If you beat a Red Arremer you deserve a medal. I can respect an enemy who puts up a fierce opposition.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I can remember a first boss from a game that stood out as being wonderfully more complex than the first boss of 99% of games. It even had two seperate forms. Unfortunately, few games emulate it.
First form:
Has three weapons that open and close. Each weapon is a seperate target that can only be damaged while open. Main body is impervious in this form. The boss alternates between having only the right weapon open, and having both of the other weapons open at once. When open, each weapon fires two missiles. The missiles are targetable with attacks, and you can destroy them if you attack them immediately; otherwise they will damage a random party member (they self-destruct after dealing damage).
Second form:
Once all three weapons are destroyed, the boss discards them and begins attacking you directly. It does this via a sustained energy attack that lasts several seconds and continues dealing damage during that time. If you try to attack during this time, the likelihood that you will die is very high. Once it finishes, however, it almost immediately goes into a retreating stance, making it take less damage. After a few seconds it will drop that stance and start its sustained attack again.
Part of what makes this amazing is just the complexity. This level of pattern-recognition and problem-solving is not honestly that high, but it's way higher than we're used to seeing in the first boss of a game. But another part of what makes this amazing - and this is linked, really - is that it really does require you to demonstrate many different skills that you should have learned during the course of defeating normal enemies. You don't just have to do one or two things, you have to use almost every ability the game's taught you so far. You don't have to do any of them particularly well - this is the first boss, and doing one really well can sometimes make up for totally failing at another - but you have like 8 different situations to respond to in a single battle and they all require different strategies. (Well, a few abilities aren't needed, but everything that's not needed can still be used to make the battle go faster if timed correctly.)
The boss in question, if you didn't recognize it yet.
First form:
Has three weapons that open and close. Each weapon is a seperate target that can only be damaged while open. Main body is impervious in this form. The boss alternates between having only the right weapon open, and having both of the other weapons open at once. When open, each weapon fires two missiles. The missiles are targetable with attacks, and you can destroy them if you attack them immediately; otherwise they will damage a random party member (they self-destruct after dealing damage).
Second form:
Once all three weapons are destroyed, the boss discards them and begins attacking you directly. It does this via a sustained energy attack that lasts several seconds and continues dealing damage during that time. If you try to attack during this time, the likelihood that you will die is very high. Once it finishes, however, it almost immediately goes into a retreating stance, making it take less damage. After a few seconds it will drop that stance and start its sustained attack again.
Part of what makes this amazing is just the complexity. This level of pattern-recognition and problem-solving is not honestly that high, but it's way higher than we're used to seeing in the first boss of a game. But another part of what makes this amazing - and this is linked, really - is that it really does require you to demonstrate many different skills that you should have learned during the course of defeating normal enemies. You don't just have to do one or two things, you have to use almost every ability the game's taught you so far. You don't have to do any of them particularly well - this is the first boss, and doing one really well can sometimes make up for totally failing at another - but you have like 8 different situations to respond to in a single battle and they all require different strategies. (Well, a few abilities aren't needed, but everything that's not needed can still be used to make the battle go faster if timed correctly.)
The boss in question, if you didn't recognize it yet.
No, it's not an RPG boss. That's what makes the complexity level even more amazing. Shooter games can afford to have far less complex enemies because the player's timing and reflexes are being tested as well as their pattern-recognition and problem-solving. Yet very few RPGs have bosses requiring this level of tactics until near the end, if at all. This would actually be a pretty kickass RPG boss, as would most Star Fox bosses.
i really liked risen monsters, the monster work together, try to surround you and kill you. it is easy to be killed even with best armors.
the good thing is that, if you are not careful and observing. you will die, every enemy have a tactic against spamming. spamming attack butten is a sure way to die.
this is a fight against gnome, gnome have a interesting tactic, 1 of them get close and other throw things to you :P.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW9fwxVA3H0&list=PL0EC70B3C9A6CC730
the good thing is that, if you are not careful and observing. you will die, every enemy have a tactic against spamming. spamming attack butten is a sure way to die.
this is a fight against gnome, gnome have a interesting tactic, 1 of them get close and other throw things to you :P.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW9fwxVA3H0&list=PL0EC70B3C9A6CC730
Milennin
2060
One of my favourite monster designs would be the Titans from Guild Wars.
Frost
Armageddon (ingame)
Since I'm doing my own monster art and animating, I wanna try to make something similar to one of those in my game (with enough differences of course =P)
Rest of my inspiration comes from real life animals, Pokémon, Final Fantasy, Golden Sun and some other random stuff.
Frost
Armageddon (ingame)
Since I'm doing my own monster art and animating, I wanna try to make something similar to one of those in my game (with enough differences of course =P)
Rest of my inspiration comes from real life animals, Pokémon, Final Fantasy, Golden Sun and some other random stuff.
author=Liberty
how do you create your own monsters in your own games?
Let's be frank. Almost nobody here designs any monsters.
I drew a lot of inspiration from FF and Metal Gear, along with sprinkles of orher games. Usually this means that I often poke holes in the whole 'You beat me, but now I'm 2x strong, LET'S FIGHT!' battles.
And really exaggerate the freakish mutations.
In the Dude's Adventure/Quest of Dude games, monsters level up by being defeated, so there's a whole race of enemies called BOSS which become Super BOSS, and then Super Bossaiyan.
In the Take Down series, most of who you fought were pre-existing characters/creatures due the nature of the universe, but I still tried to have fun with it.
When it comes to comics now, creating monsters really derives more from what the monster needs to do. Or maybe characteristics shown physically.
In Black Dot #000, there's a goblin character who was supposed to be agile, sly and greedy. So he became lanky, with sharp eyes and sharper teeth.
Alongside him, the Ice Giants were supposed to be single-minded and obstinant, so I gave them a sort of iceberg golem appearance.
And really exaggerate the freakish mutations.
In the Dude's Adventure/Quest of Dude games, monsters level up by being defeated, so there's a whole race of enemies called BOSS which become Super BOSS, and then Super Bossaiyan.
In the Take Down series, most of who you fought were pre-existing characters/creatures due the nature of the universe, but I still tried to have fun with it.
When it comes to comics now, creating monsters really derives more from what the monster needs to do. Or maybe characteristics shown physically.
In Black Dot #000, there's a goblin character who was supposed to be agile, sly and greedy. So he became lanky, with sharp eyes and sharper teeth.
Alongside him, the Ice Giants were supposed to be single-minded and obstinant, so I gave them a sort of iceberg golem appearance.
author=Judeauthor=LibertyLet's be frank. Almost nobody here designs any monsters.
how do you create your own monsters in your own games?
design is not only about art work. you can use RTP monster but design a good monster.
ubon
66
My original idea for this topic just pertained to the visual side of design, but I've really enjoyed reading about how people approach the technical side as well. If you've done or observed something interesting with regards to a monster's AI or the way a troop of them work together or something like that, I'd say this is a good place to post about it!
For my own part, I'll have something in a bit. I'm a little swamped right now with some things, suddenly.
e: also you missed out on major bonus points by not naming this topic "the manifesto of mother monster"
For my own part, I'll have something in a bit. I'm a little swamped right now with some things, suddenly.
e: also you missed out on major bonus points by not naming this topic "the manifesto of mother monster"
Byah
1097
When designing monsters, I generally look at their common represantion and then redo them in my own style.
For example, here is a gnome from my game:
He's mostly inspired by garden gnomes with a hint of Smurf, except there is something far more sinister behind that hollow and purely evil facade that he calls his face...sorry, I let my gnome hate get the better of me...again (it only ever happens every other year, I swear!).
After I'm done with the visual representation, I look at the image and think about what kind of abilities the enemy would have, as well as read about how they're typically portrayed in folklore/media.
In this case he has a standard attack that involves him flinging stones at you and a special ability that let's all his pure hatred for love, living beings and America be manifested into something more physical.
It's called "Giggle" and it makes the gnome's next attack do a lot more damage.
This is how he looks a turn before attacking:
The graphic change makes it easy to see what's happening and gives the player time to react with guard, blind or something similiar.
Another example is the dwarf warrior (too lazy for pictures!) that gets drunk during fights, which increases his HP and ATK, but poisons him. He can also use the attack "Drunken Fist" only while drunk, which poisons targets.
I generally try to give monsters few, but distinct abilities.
For example, here is a gnome from my game:
He's mostly inspired by garden gnomes with a hint of Smurf, except there is something far more sinister behind that hollow and purely evil facade that he calls his face...sorry, I let my gnome hate get the better of me...again (it only ever happens every other year, I swear!).
After I'm done with the visual representation, I look at the image and think about what kind of abilities the enemy would have, as well as read about how they're typically portrayed in folklore/media.
In this case he has a standard attack that involves him flinging stones at you and a special ability that let's all his pure hatred for love, living beings and America be manifested into something more physical.
It's called "Giggle" and it makes the gnome's next attack do a lot more damage.
This is how he looks a turn before attacking:
The graphic change makes it easy to see what's happening and gives the player time to react with guard, blind or something similiar.
Another example is the dwarf warrior (too lazy for pictures!) that gets drunk during fights, which increases his HP and ATK, but poisons him. He can also use the attack "Drunken Fist" only while drunk, which poisons targets.
I generally try to give monsters few, but distinct abilities.
J-Man
4684
Well, for monster designs I just keep using MS Paint. I draw a bunch of random scribbles, and if there's a design I find that is taking form and I like how it looks, I'll go and put the color in and slap it into the game, though there is a slightly small chance I may or may not use it in the game. :P
Designing monsters is hella fun though, making some of the same monsters you see in other RPG's like the Goblin or the Harpy and make it into your own style, it's a grand thing to see. ^^
Designing monsters is hella fun though, making some of the same monsters you see in other RPG's like the Goblin or the Harpy and make it into your own style, it's a grand thing to see. ^^
In the "Bestiaries" of the Middle Ages, each beast was thought to embody some valuable moral lesson. The pelican, for example, was believed to tear open its breast in order to bring its young to life, using its own blood, and was therefore a representation of Jesus.
I think RPG monsters should do much the same thing, except in their case they all represent different challenges to the players. In a well-designed game, each ability a player has access to should have a definite use against one of the game's obstacles, and and in an RPG those obstacles are frequently monsters. Each normal enemy is like a homework assignment, where the player uses what he learned earlier to solve the problem. To extend this metaphor, the bosses of the game are like exams, where a player should have to use EVERYTHING they have learned up to this point.
With that design philosophy in mind, I try to design enemies that will fit together to create a stable progression of challenge. First I try to think in terms of a Bestiary when drawing a monster, thinking about what kind of challenge it could pose. I find it's often easier to draw bosses first, and then scale the designs back a bit for the normal enemies. Ideally, it should be clear from the look of the monster what kind of threat it poses (physical, magical, etc.), and possibly its species and elemental affiliation as well.
Once I have my monster sprite, I come up with a strategy for how it would behave in a fight. The skills and techniques a monster uses should reflect what it is, and should mirror what the player should use against it in a fight. This can be as simple as using water against a fire enemy, or it can be far more complicated, requiring players to use a precise strategy to claim victory. For example, many of you are no doubt familiar with the 'mirror trick' in Final Fantasy games, when a boss reflects back all magical attacks and the solution is to cast mirror on yourself and reflect the magical attacks against the boss. Stuff like that requires the player to think and use their resources wisely, and it's really what makes the game fun to play.
Finally, I think about all the peripheral details of the monster. Where in the game should it appear? What level will the party be when they fight it? Does it work with other enemies, or is it fought alone? This stage varies greatly in the amount of time it takes; you want to make sure the enemy matches the tone of the area, will work well as a challenge at that point in the game, and be otherwise implemented in an intelligent fashion. This is where play testing becomes very useful, as unexpected details always come up during fights, regardless of how well they are planned.
So, that's my design approach. No doubt you guys have your own.
I think RPG monsters should do much the same thing, except in their case they all represent different challenges to the players. In a well-designed game, each ability a player has access to should have a definite use against one of the game's obstacles, and and in an RPG those obstacles are frequently monsters. Each normal enemy is like a homework assignment, where the player uses what he learned earlier to solve the problem. To extend this metaphor, the bosses of the game are like exams, where a player should have to use EVERYTHING they have learned up to this point.
With that design philosophy in mind, I try to design enemies that will fit together to create a stable progression of challenge. First I try to think in terms of a Bestiary when drawing a monster, thinking about what kind of challenge it could pose. I find it's often easier to draw bosses first, and then scale the designs back a bit for the normal enemies. Ideally, it should be clear from the look of the monster what kind of threat it poses (physical, magical, etc.), and possibly its species and elemental affiliation as well.
Once I have my monster sprite, I come up with a strategy for how it would behave in a fight. The skills and techniques a monster uses should reflect what it is, and should mirror what the player should use against it in a fight. This can be as simple as using water against a fire enemy, or it can be far more complicated, requiring players to use a precise strategy to claim victory. For example, many of you are no doubt familiar with the 'mirror trick' in Final Fantasy games, when a boss reflects back all magical attacks and the solution is to cast mirror on yourself and reflect the magical attacks against the boss. Stuff like that requires the player to think and use their resources wisely, and it's really what makes the game fun to play.
Finally, I think about all the peripheral details of the monster. Where in the game should it appear? What level will the party be when they fight it? Does it work with other enemies, or is it fought alone? This stage varies greatly in the amount of time it takes; you want to make sure the enemy matches the tone of the area, will work well as a challenge at that point in the game, and be otherwise implemented in an intelligent fashion. This is where play testing becomes very useful, as unexpected details always come up during fights, regardless of how well they are planned.
So, that's my design approach. No doubt you guys have your own.
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