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PROTECTING YOUR PROJECT FROM THIEVES.
Posts
bulmabriefs144
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CloseThe only thing I ever blocked is TestMode. I'm not sure I like the idea of people pressing the F keys and changing variable amounts. So I asked Cherry how to do away with that. Interestingly, I made my own debug mode, so it's like "don't try that one, try mine!"
It's not stealing if you give.
Plus, if you ever do need anything from someone else (say only LockeZ has Yanfly's special battle mode, that got taken down a day after upload because it was "too Xtreme") you come across as a hypocrite.
It's not stealing if you give.
Plus, if you ever do need anything from someone else (say only LockeZ has Yanfly's special battle mode, that got taken down a day after upload because it was "too Xtreme") you come across as a hypocrite.
Archeia_Nessiah
17368
author=bulmabriefs144
I guess the two of us are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I view my game as a tutorial, not as some sort of masterpiece that needs to look 100% polished .
I think you're missing the point. It's not stealing if you (the maker of the resource) gives it, and encrypted project is not giving you the background elements/sprites/etc. don't touch them.
Oh, I'm actually making a Tutorial Game too! Except real life priorities and well work in general and doing free stuff instead, lol. :T
I think nobody should be resistant to critique if it's valid especially for public domain. Especially if it's something that should benefit a lot of people because a certain standard that has to be done and to teach people good strategies. It's supposed to be a learning tool.
I'd be more resistant to critique if they're hitting on a private, more personal game. Since I made that game because I want people to be interested in my game and my story. There's a degree of critique I could accept or not. This is where encryption comes in since I want them to focus on that.
author=LockeZauthor=Archaea_NessiahIt's happened a few times, except without the part about decrypting it, because my games aren't encrypted. I was flattered and tried to help them. In one case I showed them how to change my evented system in a way so that it would work in their game, in another case I coded a version that would work for them. It never even crossed my mind at the time to think of it as stealing, because I didn't lose anything. Helping people who are making games is the entire reason I'm on RMN. So to be completely honest that actually made me feel really good, and seeing my work directly resulting in more games like that was easily one of the best feelings I've ever had in my life.
Do you know how it feels like getting a PM like this?
So, I totally decrypted your game. And I tried using your scripts but I don't get it. Can you teach me how to use them? (Yes, this totally happens and I actually got this a lot of times).
There is no expression of having interest in the game, they only expressed interest on what you did and even have the nerve to open it up and then ask YOU how it works since they want to use it too. There's one thing about asking about how you did it and open to discussion and help them out than blatantly stealing it without your permission.
Apparently this is an unpopular opinion though, and most people are just here for the makerscore, and don't care about games other than their own. Sigh. I know I can't do much about it, but I don't like that attitude at all, and I think it's killing the community. Things like Steam Greenlight and Kickstarter make people suddenly able to imagine themselves on stage at a digital rock concert, and they'll do anything to get there.
Your game was not encrypted because you DIDN'T CARE about having your resources used. When someone hand tailors a system for their game and encrypts the project it's generally to protect the time they put into the original work for their project. You're in the community to help people make games while other people are in the community to make games as a hobby, be it for themselves or for other people to enjoy playing, not analyzing a large complex system, not decompiling and seeing what makes it tick, PLAYING. Again, you didn't consider it stealing because you didn't care what happened to the end result's elements, while all the encrypted project wants you to have is the end result.
And of course there are people that do both. They make things for their own games that they don't want people to have and they make things for the community. This does not mean that the two NEED to overlap. As someone who works with tons of scripters, be it as an idea or a request or a jab or two at each other, we've released dozens of scripts. Trust me when I say you don't have even half of what we've written and even when we release something you won't see half the scripts in those, either.
Think of the end result like an element at a museum. You can look at it, sometimes even touch it, but you can't just take it home and start ripping it apart.
"Things like Steam Greenlight and Kickstarter make people suddenly able to imagine themselves on stage at a digital rock concert, and they'll do anything to get there"
Like decrypte someone else's project, steal resources, and then justify their actions? :D *justify their actions with silly "it SHOULD be public domain even though it's not" arguments?
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Yeah, you're right, I didn't encrypt it because I didn't care. I guess that's my point? I don't think people should care.
(And like pretty much every opinion I have, apparently I'm overly aggressive about it to the point of people sometimes wondering if I'm trolling.)
Unfortunately the 90% of users who have antivirus software installed will not be able to play your game, because anything encrypted by Molebox gets flagged as a virus by almost every major antivirus program. Even if I weren't me, that doesn't seem worth it.
Now that I think about it, though, I think you can submit your game as a valid app to these antivirus companies and have them review it to confirm that it's not a virus, and then they'll whitelist it?
(And like pretty much every opinion I have, apparently I'm overly aggressive about it to the point of people sometimes wondering if I'm trolling.)
author=gadesxWAY TO RESPOND INTELLIGENTLY TO THE OP INSTEAD OF TO THE AGGRESSIVE OBNOXIOUS WILD TANGENT OF AN ARGUMENT.
I use molebox for 2k3 games.
Unfortunately the 90% of users who have antivirus software installed will not be able to play your game, because anything encrypted by Molebox gets flagged as a virus by almost every major antivirus program. Even if I weren't me, that doesn't seem worth it.
Now that I think about it, though, I think you can submit your game as a valid app to these antivirus companies and have them review it to confirm that it's not a virus, and then they'll whitelist it?
Archeia_Nessiah
17368
author=gadesx
I use molebox for 2k3 games.
Molebox is shit and a waste of time. Don't. It doesn't work on all systems.
Son. Whenever you're stuck at something, just steal from people. Don't bother learning it yourself. You have the rights, son.
This Copyright Laws reform scenario is so beautiful it's driving me to tears *sobs*
This Copyright Laws reform scenario is so beautiful it's driving me to tears *sobs*
Darken
3952
steal a tree and make like a blindmind
author=Ness
Think of the end result like an element at a museum. You can look at it, sometimes even touch it, but you can't just take it home and start ripping it apart.
Comments in puprple
author=Archeia_Nessiah
I think nobody should be resistant to critique if it's valid especially for public domain. Especially if it's something that should benefit a lot of people because a certain standard that has to be done and to teach people good strategies. It's supposed to be a learning tool.
I'd be more resistant to critique if they're hitting on a private, more personal game. Since I made that game because I want people to be interested in my game and my story. There's a degree of critique I could accept or not. This is where encryption comes in since I want them to focus on that.
While it's true that I can always improve (and should always improve) the reason why it hits a nerve is well, two reasons. First, the way it's given is nearly always coercive, not persuasive. Having had a few people in my life that are ultra-critical of my clothes, my hair, the fact that I don't work 40 hr a week or want to do so, being told to do something is much easier to swallow if it's explained why this is better. The second reason, is that I see things about the same way as this guy.
(btw, he gets acquitted for his destruction of the building) Usually the reason I make a game is for the message I can put into it, so I wanna make sure it doesn't get diluted by other people's visions. "Well, that scene needs another pillar." Fine, if it's just a pillar. But if the pillar was made as some sort of metaphor, the meaning is destroyed by adding the other. Messing with stuff I intended to be there, is to me, alot worse than stealing. The third reason (just for Oracle of Tao) is that the game actually has actual history (it was the game a friend and me intended to make in computer class years and years ago, so it literally is my baby, in addition to being a free-to-use project. So yea, an interesting mix of complete openness for people to steal materials from the game and sort of a "cause that's the way I designed it" mentality. I'm weird.
I think I see where LockeZ is coming from. I see what Nessiah means too, and they're both right to a degree.
LockeZ is right in the sense that a game's code can help other developers make better games. Nessiah's right in the sense that it should be the creator's CHOICE whether that code is shared or not. Emphasis on the CHOICE.
To say that a developer has no right to withhold potentially helpful resources "just because they could be helping others" is a load of horse shit. As was said before, they made it, it's copyrighted to them the moment they created it, and if/how they share it is entirely up to them.
To say allowing the blatant copying of resources isn't damaging is also incredibly blind. Do you really think a game developer is going to improve just because they can hit ctrl+C and ctrl+V? If they don't understand how the script they're using works, it's not helping them improve. It's just letting them take a shortcut to looking more talented than they actually are. They're nothing more than two-bit hacks and they'd be lost without the work of others. This wouldn't even produce more quality games; just one good game and a bunch of crappy knock-offs. Unless someone who knew what they were doing used the code. But if they knew what they were doing, they'd probably have the skill to make it more unique to themselves anyway.
It's one thing to help the community improve by sharing resources. It's another to want to protect the things you worked hard on so others can't just take them for their own.
I wish I had more advice for the OP at this point, but I don't. Time stamps are pretty much your best friend.
LockeZ is right in the sense that a game's code can help other developers make better games. Nessiah's right in the sense that it should be the creator's CHOICE whether that code is shared or not. Emphasis on the CHOICE.
To say that a developer has no right to withhold potentially helpful resources "just because they could be helping others" is a load of horse shit. As was said before, they made it, it's copyrighted to them the moment they created it, and if/how they share it is entirely up to them.
To say allowing the blatant copying of resources isn't damaging is also incredibly blind. Do you really think a game developer is going to improve just because they can hit ctrl+C and ctrl+V? If they don't understand how the script they're using works, it's not helping them improve. It's just letting them take a shortcut to looking more talented than they actually are. They're nothing more than two-bit hacks and they'd be lost without the work of others. This wouldn't even produce more quality games; just one good game and a bunch of crappy knock-offs. Unless someone who knew what they were doing used the code. But if they knew what they were doing, they'd probably have the skill to make it more unique to themselves anyway.
It's one thing to help the community improve by sharing resources. It's another to want to protect the things you worked hard on so others can't just take them for their own.
I wish I had more advice for the OP at this point, but I don't. Time stamps are pretty much your best friend.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
The complaints about copying promoting a lack of originality confuse me; you guys think that people should only make games that share absolutely no systems at all with any other game ever made?
I dunno man. I think more than one game in existance having caterpillar diagonal movement or moving battle animations is probably pretty much okay. Would the developer learn more by reinventing the wheel every time? Yeah. Do I care about the developer learning? No, not directly. Only if them learning improves the game. The developer isn't ultimately important, they're just a means to an end. The game is what matters.
I dunno man. I think more than one game in existance having caterpillar diagonal movement or moving battle animations is probably pretty much okay. Would the developer learn more by reinventing the wheel every time? Yeah. Do I care about the developer learning? No, not directly. Only if them learning improves the game. The developer isn't ultimately important, they're just a means to an end. The game is what matters.
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
author=Archeia_Nessiah
1.) Self Dissolving Scripts. Basically make all your script files dissolve or check an important thing and then if it can't find that, it will corrupt data files. So if people tried to use it in their own games, yeah. It's not 100% fool proof, but for someone who knows very little RGSS and tries to steal your stuff, this would work.
2.) Clear all Switches and Variables Names. Basically Change the max to 1, then change it back to 500 for quick clear. At least it'd make things harder to find.
3.) Remember XYZ in rm2k3? If you can somehow do the same thing with RMXP-RMVXAce to read a specialized image format, that will already help you a lot.
4.) Clear all comments and make sure all the aliases in your script are made with your username or some such.
Audio Encryption is still impossible, unfortunately. :(
Those are some really good ideas. It's a shame I'm not much of a programmer. Well, I am with Java, C++, and Python, but I don't have time to learn RGSS. Too much life going on right now. But I'm sure for those good with RGSS, this is very useful info.
author=eplipswich
Oh, there certainly is a con. Ever heard of decrypting? There are definitely people who are capable of decrypting files encrypted by different people.
That's certainly helpful. Thanks for that. This is why I asked you guys, since this is the best way to learn.
I'll edit my first post to include all this info. Hopefully other people can get as much use of it as I can.
from LockeZ
The complaints about copying promoting a lack of originality confuse me; you guys think that people should only make games that share absolutely no systems at all with any other game ever made?
Hardly, but there's something to be said for originality, don't you agree? A caterpillar system or diagonal movement is one thing. An entire battle system or other such innovation is another.
from LockeZ
Do I care about the developer learning? No, not directly. Only if them learning improves the game. The developer isn't ultimately important, they're just a means to an end. The game is what matters.
Well, then you've just admitted how ignorant you are. If the end product is all that matters to you, then you've got the wrong spirit about the whole thing. I hate to quote such a cliche, but the journey is always more important than the goal. If a developer learns how to design games well, they'll likely continue producing excellent work for people to enjoy. It's not something just anyone can do.
Maybe you'd be satisfied with a wealth of mediocre games that copy one another shamelessly, but I'd rather play a game that had more thought and devotion poured into than "what can I stitch together with the least amount of effort."
author=Red_Novaauthor=Archeia_NessiahThose are some really good ideas. It's a shame I'm not much of a programmer. Well, I am with Java, C++, and Python, but I don't have time to learn RGSS. Too much life going on right now. But I'm sure for those good with RGSS, this is very useful info.
1.) Self Dissolving Scripts. Basically make all your script files dissolve or check an important thing and then if it can't find that, it will corrupt data files. So if people tried to use it in their own games, yeah. It's not 100% fool proof, but for someone who knows very little RGSS and tries to steal your stuff, this would work.
2.) Clear all Switches and Variables Names. Basically Change the max to 1, then change it back to 500 for quick clear. At least it'd make things harder to find.
3.) Remember XYZ in rm2k3? If you can somehow do the same thing with RMXP-RMVXAce to read a specialized image format, that will already help you a lot.
4.) Clear all comments and make sure all the aliases in your script are made with your username or some such.
Audio Encryption is still impossible, unfortunately. :(
author=eplipswich
Oh, there certainly is a con. Ever heard of decrypting? There are definitely people who are capable of decrypting files encrypted by different people.
That's certainly helpful. Thanks for that. This is why I asked you guys, since this is the best way to learn.
I'll edit my first post to include all this info. Hopefully other people can get as much use of it as I can.
It's all a waste of time. Anyone with rudimentary coding knowledge and/or the ability to use Google will overcome it in an afternoon. New versions of multi-hundred dollar software get cracked in a day and AAA games are cracked in hours. At some point, the game has to decrypt the assets in order to run the game, meaning that the game has the decryption code in there somewhere, meaning that you only have to look for it.
The only way to be 100% sure your assets and code aren't stolen is to stream the game via the cloud with a service like OnLive.
Encryption is usually more trouble than it's worth for hobby games. Like someone mentioned, it is often flagged as 'virus' or whatnot by Antivirus software, plus I've heard stories of it corrupting the code so that the game becomes unplayable, and like Sai said, anyone determined to get the code will be able to get it anyway.
If you wanted to protect your code, you are better off just obfuscating it and tagging/namespacing it with identifiable stuff like your name.
Alternatively, just put right in the header saying "Hey this is custom code for my game (that I paid for). Please don't steal this code to use in your own game." People with any integrity will respect that. People without integrity are going to steal it no matter what you do.
The best thing to do is to just distribute it freely, asking for credit/permission and a link back to your site/game.
If you wanted to protect your code, you are better off just obfuscating it and tagging/namespacing it with identifiable stuff like your name.
Alternatively, just put right in the header saying "Hey this is custom code for my game (that I paid for). Please don't steal this code to use in your own game." People with any integrity will respect that. People without integrity are going to steal it no matter what you do.
The best thing to do is to just distribute it freely, asking for credit/permission and a link back to your site/game.
Here's my 2 cents on encryption: Don't fucking do it. Encryption only inconveniences* legitimate users and does absolutely nothing to prohibit serious copyright infringement, it's exactly like how DRMs are worthless against piracy.
*Why is encryption a bad thing? Well now:
1. Obfuscated content. If the user actually cares about what goes on in his computer, he won't trust something encrypted and packed into a single .exe that vehemently hides its content unless you are a highly reputable/trusted developer/publisher (read: you're not).
2. High chance of being flagged as a virus, reputable scanner or otherwise, because of the above. Obfuscation is a common hiding tactic by viruses and malware.
3. The RPG Maker community is and has been an open source community since its inception, largely due to RM2K(3) not having any encryption capabilities built-in unlike RMXP/VX(A). Encryption hinders the open source nature of the community and stiffles genuinely curious developers from learning (read: not stealing; learning) from the works of their peers.
4. Encryption makes the game unplayable. If the encryption process itself doesn't break the game to begin with, forbidding direct access to the code prohibits players who might know how to use RM from fixing game-breaking bugs/balance issues so they can get on with the game (I've had to self-fix bugs and/or rebalance stuff in games many times to keep playing).
So essentially,
*Why is encryption a bad thing? Well now:
1. Obfuscated content. If the user actually cares about what goes on in his computer, he won't trust something encrypted and packed into a single .exe that vehemently hides its content unless you are a highly reputable/trusted developer/publisher (read: you're not).
2. High chance of being flagged as a virus, reputable scanner or otherwise, because of the above. Obfuscation is a common hiding tactic by viruses and malware.
3. The RPG Maker community is and has been an open source community since its inception, largely due to RM2K(3) not having any encryption capabilities built-in unlike RMXP/VX(A). Encryption hinders the open source nature of the community and stiffles genuinely curious developers from learning (read: not stealing; learning) from the works of their peers.
4. Encryption makes the game unplayable. If the encryption process itself doesn't break the game to begin with, forbidding direct access to the code prohibits players who might know how to use RM from fixing game-breaking bugs/balance issues so they can get on with the game (I've had to self-fix bugs and/or rebalance stuff in games many times to keep playing).
So essentially,
kentonaAny respectable person will respect your copyright license and its terms; if there comes about a scum who doesn't, the RM community has proven throughout its history to ferret them out, publicly humiliate them (as they should be), and oust them from the community.
The best thing to do is to just distribute it freely, asking for credit/permission and a link back to your site/game.
author=Red_Nova
How to Protect your game from Thieves
I prefer this logical method of choice.
(Didn't we already have this discussion before, like, many times???)
J-Man
4684
lol, I remember this one schmuck who added me on msn and asked me for my game and he said he wanted it for my resources and not the game itself, I just laughed and started making him go on a wild goose chase. XD
That'll teach em'!
That'll teach em'!
You're making a free game right?
If someone wants to take my free product and post it all
over the internet I'm all for it. Please someone do this for me!!!
Someone would actually have to make changes to my actual
game and replace all references to my name to even try to claim it as there
own. But if you go through all that effort....
amerk
2539
author=LockeZ
Apparently this is an unpopular opinion though, and most people are just here for the makerscore, and don't care about games other than their own. Sigh. I know I can't do much about it, but I don't like that attitude at all, and I think it's killing the community. Things like Steam Greenlight and Kickstarter make people suddenly able to imagine themselves on stage at a digital rock concert, and they'll do anything to get there.
Sadly, I must agree with this, since I've seen it in almost all the communities. When I first got involved with RM, the only three games I heard being commercial were Eternal Eden, Deadly Sin, and Dawn's Light. I barely heard about the Amaranth website, and so I wasn't aware of some of the other titles.
Most communities were all for shareware, and we all played each others' games and gave feedback.
Not so much anymore. While there are still other smaller communities around, RMN and VXAN feel like the last two great communities with a decent amount of members where the focus is not so much on commercialism, although the support is seldom there anymore.
I won't say whether or not I agree with your stance on the legality of code, but I will say there was once a time when the communities were at their prime, ready to help, assist, and share with everybody, and nobody cared so much out of making a quick buck as they were with just being part of a community doing something they loved.
Back on topic:
To the OP, encryption is almost pointless for freeware games. In the majority of the cases, we probably don't have anything worth stealing anyways.
Most of the people who are likely going to play our games aren't going to be professional developers themselves. That means most of our potential audience are either amateur developers or casual players not interested in game development.
Of those amateur developers who do steal, most of them will never be able to finish anything anyways.
And has been noted, there are tools readily available to easily decrypt, making the effort needed to put into encrypting your material not worthwhile.
There is also one other con, but this is the sort of con you would need to weigh for yourself. The fact is that most non-commercial RM games are buggy and unbalanced. I can't count the times I've quit playing a game because of a glitch, or because it was balanced so poorly. If the game is decrypted, I can easily fix those things myself (assuming I have the required editor).
Sure, I could do the same for the decrypted game by reporting it to the developer so they can fix the issue or issues, but why bother? The time it would take for me to contact them, have them upload a new version and hope they understand what was wrong, and then for me to download it again and playtest it to make sure it was fixed, not to mention remembering to transfer my save file over from the old version and hope that it still works in the new version -- it's not worth the bother for me.
