THE UN'S ATTACK ON BLACK PETE

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Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3885
As some of you may know, the UN is currently investigating the Dutch tradition of Sinterklaas, thinking it may be racist. Similar to Christmas, Saint Nicholas and his helpers come to the Netherlands once a year to give presents to children. The helpers, however, are not elves, but black people, named Black Pete. The claims made against the tradition are that: "the character and image of Black Pete perpetuate a stereotyped image of African people as second class citizens, fostering an underlying sense of inferiority in Dutch society"
Many Dutch are outraged by the UN's claims. A facebook page named Pietitie, or Pete-ition, has been created yesterday, combating the UN's claims, which has already gathered 1.2 million now.

I'm interested in opinions on this matter from outside the Netherlands. Is Black Pete a racist stereotype? Should the UN be spending their time on something like this at all?
I'm sure the UN could find better causes to champion like starvation, war and immiseration. I mean, it's not like there's a war raging in Syria or anything.

But on topic, Black Pete does seem pretty jarring. Reminds me of the Bugs Bunny episode "All This and Rabbit Stew".
SunflowerGames
The most beautiful user on RMN!
13323

There was a commercial in Taiwan I saw recently that I thought,
"Hey if that was in America there would be a fuckroar."
But low and behold I found myself in Taiwan, changed the channel,
and never gave it a second thought.

Edit: Actually found the video.



Edit #2: Found another video, not racist, but funny.

This sounds really dumb to me. Very clearly not a black stereotype.


I've been wrong before, though I'm pretty sure no black person has ever been legitimately offended by Black Petes.
By a coincidence, this was in the Guardian today. If this article is accurate, it certainly sounds like it is racist, as well as that an increasing number of
Dutch are realizing this too.

Here
edchuy
You the practice of self-promotion
1624
It seems that people keep using the excuse that it should be kept for the sake children and tradition. That doesn't make it right ... Being a minority where I live, I can certainly relate to the Black Dutch being offended by such depictions. I guess many of the White Dutch are still in the denial stage. Hopefully they can learn to let go as Germany eventually did after losing World War II and see this episode as an historical aberration that needs to taught as a counterexample of what their country should be.
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3885
author=papasan96
By a coincidence, this was in the Guardian today. If this article is accurate, it certainly sounds like it is racist, as well as that an increasing number of
Dutch are realizing this too.

Here

Interesting article, but I don't think it is very accurate. For instance, Black Pete no longer speaks in an accent, and songs that focus on his appearance are already being sung less snd less. The article calls Black Pete a slave-servant, and while he is a servant, he is no slave. The most likely backstory behind Black Pete (since we're not sure) is that the Turkish Saint Nicholas once freed an African slave and offered him a paid job as his servant. This could obviously still be considered racist, so children in the Netherlands learn that Black Pete is black because he climbs through chimneys. This may be historically inaccurate, and I can understand some adults thinking this is just a filthy way of covering up the ugly truth, but we are talking about children who hold their parents asthe highest authority and will believe anything they say. As long as parents don't make Black Pete out to be a racist stereotype, feelings of white surpremacy are not transferred from one generation to the next. The article uses Geert Wilders as an example of Dutch racism, and while it may be true he has created some racism and anti-islamic feelings in some people, the majority of Dutch people despise him (thank god) The people who use The word 'allochtoon' condescendingly or to describe black who are born and raised in the Netherlands are also often ridiculed.

Of course it is true that the Netherlands have a racism problem, but so do all other Western countries. I don't know if the problem is worse in the Netherlands than in other Western countries, but I find that hard to believe. Personally, I think that if we consider Black Pete racist, we should also consider Santa's elves discriminatory against dwarves.
Yeah, that's racist.
Santa's elves are always depicted as white in America/Britain. It's racism to the highest degree.

Or is it only racist if a black person is involved?

(/devilsAdvocaat)
Every time that argument (invariably) comes up in a discussion about whether something is racist or not, I'm always amazed that some people cannot see there is a historical difference between how white people and black people have been treated.

Let me make it clear to you: there has been a long and shameful history of those in power (predominately in history white Europeans/Americans) exploiting, mistreating, mocking and subjugating minorities or those from weaker countries (predominately Africans and Asians, but really most native peoples).

Therefore, your flippant example is not comparable because there is not really a history of anti-white racism. If you are white, and you have grown up in a Western or majority white country, you have not experienced the daily racism ethnic minorities often do. So, you are not in a position to start whataboutery.

Frankly, I would only really accept a black persons opinion about whether Black Pete is racist or not. It's kind of like golliwogs in Britain, although thankfully most people have come to accept that they are relics that belong in the past, not in our kid's bedrooms.
author=Amy
Santa's elves are always depicted as white in America/Britain. It's racism to the highest degree.

Or is it only racist if a black person is involved?

(/devilsAdvocaat)
someone needs to bone up on their understanding of positions of relative power

author=Gourd_Clae
This sounds really dumb to me. Very clearly not a black stereotype.
ahahahaha come the fuck on

author=Gourd_Clae
I've been wrong before, though I'm pretty sure no black person has ever been legitimately offended by Black Petes.
you're certainly qualified to make that claim

I have studied Zwarte Piet! I can say unequivocally that Zwarte Piet is fully intended to be a black caricature, and even if he weren't the performance contains all kinds of shitty implications that aren't worth keeping. I don't understand why people are flying to the defense of racist portrayals just becauses it's 'tradition' -- would you throw down about 'golliwog' as well? people like to crow about political correctness gone wild, but I think the Zwarte Piet issue is the opposite -- people who don't understand the topic flying to an exaggerated opinion simply because they feel they'd probably disagree with the motivations behind it.

I think the biggest thing that gives the lie to the claim that the Zwarte Piet tradition isn't based in racism is that while people were protesting in support of Zwarte Piet a month or so ago, a black woman arrived on an unrelated errand, only to be mistaken for someone protesting against it and quickly assaulted by a mob. you can't pretend the issue isn't racial.

e: also characterizing it as an 'attack' is needlessly sensationalist. it's interesting that white people are so neurotically defensive in this situation, considering.
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