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CloseAS somebody who has tried endlessly to achieve it, what techniques do you use to separate characters from each other? As far too often I see my characters, and those from other works, either blending into one form, or using personalities so scattered that no one could possibly confuse them in 100 years (the quiet one vs. the loud one, etc). I would like to create distinct characters that have some similarities but can still be picked out from each other.
Aegix_Drakan
6037
giving them interesting flaws is a good way to start:
Here's a list to get the gears turning.
http://www.darkworldrpg.com/lore/flaws.php
Also, think about what you want that character to do or be. What kinds of characters make sense in the story and setting you're creating?
For example, in my current project, it's a dark fantasy world where powerful factions look out for their own interests, and the story is about fate and the desire to break free from it.
So one character is literally a slave that's bound to the party.
In another game that I made (in the same game universe), I had one character be a drunk (but a cheerful drunk who was into booze to keep herself that way and avoid thinking about depressing things), another was overconfident (but was also a single father, making him seem a bit irresponsible since he was used to taking risks since he was so confident), another was a compulsive gambler with bad luck and a bad attitude (this gambling mindset then plays an important role late in the game as she's willing to go all in when she feels it's important to her), and finally the main character who was loyal to such a degree that he comes off as kind of an idiot if you really think about it.
Think about the characters that would naturally show up in the story and world you're making, and then fill the remaining slots with characters that will kind of make it more interesting by their presence.
Here's a list to get the gears turning.
http://www.darkworldrpg.com/lore/flaws.php
Also, think about what you want that character to do or be. What kinds of characters make sense in the story and setting you're creating?
For example, in my current project, it's a dark fantasy world where powerful factions look out for their own interests, and the story is about fate and the desire to break free from it.
So one character is literally a slave that's bound to the party.
In another game that I made (in the same game universe), I had one character be a drunk (but a cheerful drunk who was into booze to keep herself that way and avoid thinking about depressing things), another was overconfident (but was also a single father, making him seem a bit irresponsible since he was used to taking risks since he was so confident), another was a compulsive gambler with bad luck and a bad attitude (this gambling mindset then plays an important role late in the game as she's willing to go all in when she feels it's important to her), and finally the main character who was loyal to such a degree that he comes off as kind of an idiot if you really think about it.
Think about the characters that would naturally show up in the story and world you're making, and then fill the remaining slots with characters that will kind of make it more interesting by their presence.
RyaReisender
200
What I usually do is thinking up a background story on each characater. Like how their childhood was, why are they the way they are, what traumatic things that they already have lived through and so on. After that I think about what their talents are.
Then when I write dialogues I always really just "role play" those people. I mean often there is only one thing they would possibly say in a certain situation, knowing their personality, character and background.
Then when I write dialogues I always really just "role play" those people. I mean often there is only one thing they would possibly say in a certain situation, knowing their personality, character and background.
Crystalgate
694
author=Aegix_Drakan
giving them interesting flaws is a good way to start:
This doesn't work for me. Usually I add flaws last. I tend to begin with what strengths the characters have, their background and then from there I figure out what flaws makes sense and would work great with the characters. Generally, I only begin with flaws when they are either humorous or endearing.
What works varies from person to person, so giving a good advice is kind of hard.
Anyway, to answer the TC's questions, let's start with similarities. What may work is to look at what your game is about. Assuming it's a fairly standard RPG fare, all your playable characters are actively heading towards dangers, an act most people aren't willing to do. So all your characters could be similar to each other in the sense that they are people who are willing to take great risks if they view the cause as good enough or they may just be adventurous. Other story elements may also give them a common ground. Are they fighting an evil empire, being wanted by a powerful organization or is there anything else very prevalent in your story?
As for differences, I think you want differences that doesn't make characters into caricatures. Let's try a simple example, recklessness vs caution. Instead of having one character who always charges ahead and then another who likes to plan things, you can make it so that all characters would prefer having a good plan, but some are better than others at coming up with one. Also, if they fail to come up with a safe plan, some characters are quicker than others at concluding that they have to stop planning and make do with what they have so far. This gives them differences, but also maintains some common ground. Try that with other traits, use more a sliding scale type of approach than a black and white one.
Aegix_Drakan
6037
author=RyaReisender
Then when I write dialogues I always really just "role play" those people. I mean often there is only one thing they would possibly say in a certain situation, knowing their personality, character and background.
This. A million times this.
If you want to write good dialogue for your characters, you need to get into their heads. It makes writing their dialogue so much easier.
Instead of telling you what I do to separate my characters from each other, I will give you an insight into a few of them from my current horror game.
First off, I have a young man that suffers from cancer. He's known for having many friends and he get's along with almost everyone - for example, the 'bad boy' of his class is his best friend, even though the two couldn't be more different from each other than they are. He may be a great friend, but Hisao is a pessimist through and through. There is hatred stuffed inside his weak heart. He rarely smiles, even wishes that other people would die instead of him. His backstory is really big and he has countless reasons for the things he does - even though these reasons might not be something everyone would symphatise with.
Then there is his best friend, Priam. A player, a bad boy. But he is more than that. A good student, almost the top of his class. He's intelligent, but he likes to pick fights. If he does not like a teacher, then he won't listen. He does HIS thing, even though that might not be the best idea most of the time. Priam treats most people like they are worthless trash and even lost his best friend (who was in love with him at the time) because she wasn't cool enough for him. His backstory is sad through and through and makes him who he is. For example: He was set on fire once. That event changed him in a way and he got even more aggressive. But he would never by angry at Hisao - he tries to cheer him up and visits him everyday if he has to stay at the hospital again. Not to mention that they both have nothing in comparison design-wise.
So, what separates them so much?
- Design
- Personality
- Backstory
- Friends
- Wishes
- Hopes
- Flaws and Strenghts
- Role in the story
- The story of the game in general/The things they have to go through
- ...
Don't try to make a good character too good or an evil character too evil, in a way. I am sure you know countless great people - but all of them have flaws, right? Just take these two characters as an example: We have Hisao who is a great friend, a shy person that lacks some kind of backbone. He's friendly. But also the biggest pessimist of the game - full of hatred, in a way. He judges everyone. Is sick to the very core. A loser. And then there's Priam. A player. Get's everything he wants. Has rich parents. Does what he wants when he wants it. Treats most people like trash. Has a foul mouth. But is intelligent. Dangerous. Good-looking and always healthy. If he likes someone, then he finds almost no flaws in their personality. His friends are people that he would never throw away - even though he did just that in the past. He makes a lot of mistakes and almost never learns from them. But he's not a bad person because of it.
Long story short: A character alone is nothing more than a role. Give them backstories, relationships, fears, flaws, even let them do things that don't even seem to work well with their personality. Let a player be intelligent. Make a friendly character that gets along with everyone into a pessimist that stores away his hate. Give that shy boy a lot of courage in a certain situation. The drunk addict around the corner can very well be a great boss to his coworkers. The strict school teacher may be the softest person outside of school. That seemingly dumb basketball player might be extremely good at chess without anyone knowing because he does not have the courage to admit it.
But DON'T make a checklist for every character. Simply think about what brings that character to life.
First off, I have a young man that suffers from cancer. He's known for having many friends and he get's along with almost everyone - for example, the 'bad boy' of his class is his best friend, even though the two couldn't be more different from each other than they are. He may be a great friend, but Hisao is a pessimist through and through. There is hatred stuffed inside his weak heart. He rarely smiles, even wishes that other people would die instead of him. His backstory is really big and he has countless reasons for the things he does - even though these reasons might not be something everyone would symphatise with.
Then there is his best friend, Priam. A player, a bad boy. But he is more than that. A good student, almost the top of his class. He's intelligent, but he likes to pick fights. If he does not like a teacher, then he won't listen. He does HIS thing, even though that might not be the best idea most of the time. Priam treats most people like they are worthless trash and even lost his best friend (who was in love with him at the time) because she wasn't cool enough for him. His backstory is sad through and through and makes him who he is. For example: He was set on fire once. That event changed him in a way and he got even more aggressive. But he would never by angry at Hisao - he tries to cheer him up and visits him everyday if he has to stay at the hospital again. Not to mention that they both have nothing in comparison design-wise.
So, what separates them so much?
- Design
- Personality
- Backstory
- Friends
- Wishes
- Hopes
- Flaws and Strenghts
- Role in the story
- The story of the game in general/The things they have to go through
- ...
Don't try to make a good character too good or an evil character too evil, in a way. I am sure you know countless great people - but all of them have flaws, right? Just take these two characters as an example: We have Hisao who is a great friend, a shy person that lacks some kind of backbone. He's friendly. But also the biggest pessimist of the game - full of hatred, in a way. He judges everyone. Is sick to the very core. A loser. And then there's Priam. A player. Get's everything he wants. Has rich parents. Does what he wants when he wants it. Treats most people like trash. Has a foul mouth. But is intelligent. Dangerous. Good-looking and always healthy. If he likes someone, then he finds almost no flaws in their personality. His friends are people that he would never throw away - even though he did just that in the past. He makes a lot of mistakes and almost never learns from them. But he's not a bad person because of it.
Long story short: A character alone is nothing more than a role. Give them backstories, relationships, fears, flaws, even let them do things that don't even seem to work well with their personality. Let a player be intelligent. Make a friendly character that gets along with everyone into a pessimist that stores away his hate. Give that shy boy a lot of courage in a certain situation. The drunk addict around the corner can very well be a great boss to his coworkers. The strict school teacher may be the softest person outside of school. That seemingly dumb basketball player might be extremely good at chess without anyone knowing because he does not have the courage to admit it.
But DON'T make a checklist for every character. Simply think about what brings that character to life.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
author=JessicaYYF
Different backgrounds, wishes, and choices.
This.
Basically there are three things that you'll want to keep in mind:
Wishes- What does the character want: out of life, out of their current situation, in the future? Are they obvious about this, or covert? Out of their wants, what's the highest priority? If two wants were in conflict, which would they fall back on?
Choices- This is how they go after what they want; in a more general sense, their philosophy and priorities. As an example, you might have two cop characters: Both have a wish to uphold the law and do their job well, but they can be very different in how they choose to carry this out. (For details, see every buddy cop movie ever.) Even if two people have the same goal, they'll usually pursue it in different ways.
Background- Upbringing has a lot of impact on a person, and this can be used to inform the first two elements, as well as more superficial things like a character's look and speech patterns. Things like location, family, economic circumstances, and the like have a profound influence.
In addition, I'd say to work on picking characters in a situation who have very different backgrounds and experiences. Very often, writers have samey characters because they're choosing people like them, or like what they're used to: a fantasy game with the same teen or twentysomething party of beginner adventurers; a modern game with snarky geeks based on the writer's friends.
Push for a variety in age, gender, culture (or subculture), background, and philosophy. Don't worry much on whether it's "realistic" for them to be involved- there are usually exceptions to every rule, and reality tends to be unrealistic in that regard. If the characters gel well as a group, most people will look past the rest. (I would recommend spending a while researching on people who are different from you, just to make sure you're not being inaccurate or stereotypey.)
Additionally (though this is difficult if you're not designing everything yourself), try to get a big range of body types and clothing styles. Having characters who are really visually distinct from one another can be incredibly helpful in writing them distinctly. (I think samey styles are an issue in a lot of JRPG culture because the source is a culture that highly values conformity and ethnic purity. Not the best place for variety in character look!)
...hopefully that novel of a post isn't too intimidating! It's a complex subject with a lot of different attitudes.
Skie Fortress
2394
author=RyaReisender
Then when I write dialogues I always really just "role play" those people. I mean often there is only one thing they would possibly say in a certain situation, knowing their personality, character and background.
I think this is among the few things I've read from you that I can agree with entirely.
I do exactly this. Get into each character's head and think about exactly how they would respond to any given situation given the options and the circumstances. Makes writing scenes a bit more fun.
But beyond that, characters are made unique by their flaws, strengths, goals, and personalities. Those all meld together to create interesting actions and reactions by the character which when combined with the differing actions and reactions of others, creates a scene.
A word on flaws --
True flaws are a core component in a character's personality. They don't come and go when the winds change, they are there, determinable, unattractive, and sprung from the character's nature(background, choices, internalized opinions)/nurture(upbringing). A flaw by definition is a deficiency. If the character can overcome or outgrow it, it isn't a flaw, it was just an obstacle. If it has any redeeming qualities, it isn't a flaw with much depth.
Don't be afraid to make your characters weak, unintelligent, ugly, or old(er than 15).
I never found Harry Potter, Hunger Games, (insert literally any young adult fiction here) main characters interesting because they are essentially flawless.
I enjoy the character Tyrion from GoT immensely, because he has some serious flaws going on, but the plot is never gimmicky for it, or centered around him entirely.
Rhue from "The Way"(an RM game), is a memorable character because he is so devoted to finding his long lost love and being happy (achieving an ideal), becoming more ruthless as time goes on, that he spurns any *real* chance of being happy that he comes across along the way. That is a flaw.
----------
Names are a good tool, too. Try to have all of your characters have names that begin with different letters. That said, think carefully about those names -- the culture/place/period they deviate from. One cliche I hate is main characters with silly, "cool" names that no-one in their right mind would call their children. That goes for appearance, too. Choice of clothing, skin colour, hair colour -- these things should reflect the character's personality or place of origin respectively.
ie. Lightning from FFXIII is a good example of what not to do.
----------
tldr; work more on making believable protagonists/antagonists rather than why they are badass.
True flaws are a core component in a character's personality. They don't come and go when the winds change, they are there, determinable, unattractive, and sprung from the character's nature(background, choices, internalized opinions)/nurture(upbringing). A flaw by definition is a deficiency. If the character can overcome or outgrow it, it isn't a flaw, it was just an obstacle. If it has any redeeming qualities, it isn't a flaw with much depth.
Don't be afraid to make your characters weak, unintelligent, ugly, or old(er than 15).
I never found Harry Potter, Hunger Games, (insert literally any young adult fiction here) main characters interesting because they are essentially flawless.
I enjoy the character Tyrion from GoT immensely, because he has some serious flaws going on, but the plot is never gimmicky for it, or centered around him entirely.
Rhue from "The Way"(an RM game), is a memorable character because he is so devoted to finding his long lost love and being happy (achieving an ideal), becoming more ruthless as time goes on, that he spurns any *real* chance of being happy that he comes across along the way. That is a flaw.
----------
Names are a good tool, too. Try to have all of your characters have names that begin with different letters. That said, think carefully about those names -- the culture/place/period they deviate from. One cliche I hate is main characters with silly, "cool" names that no-one in their right mind would call their children. That goes for appearance, too. Choice of clothing, skin colour, hair colour -- these things should reflect the character's personality or place of origin respectively.
ie. Lightning from FFXIII is a good example of what not to do.
----------
tldr; work more on making believable protagonists/antagonists rather than why they are badass.
Crystalgate
694
The most interesting characters I know does have great flaws. However, if I were to make a list of my least liked characters, it would also be filled with characters with great flaws. Great flaws is a high risk high yield strategy. If you're not a good writer I would recommend against it, your chances of writing another Tyrion or Rhue is slim to none.
That said, even if you're not a good writer, you should still not make your characters flawless. However, start with smaller flaws and work your way up as your writing improves.
That said, even if you're not a good writer, you should still not make your characters flawless. However, start with smaller flaws and work your way up as your writing improves.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
Flaws are important, but they're not really a substitute for motivation and philosophy. If you make a character that's just flaws on a template, all you have is a person whose only notable features are their flaws, which tends to be annoying.
Sam
2200
In addition to the above remember that your characters are not static. They will experience ups and downs and undergo changes. I always find an interesting character to be one who is having their beliefs challenged or those finding themselves in unusual situations they didnt anticipate and dont know how to react to.
kannaophelia
127
Making lists of characteristics or filling out character profile templates never works for me. (I should say that I'm working on what is only my first non-text game, but I write.) What I personally do is start with the story, and a brief outline of a character type, and I find the character develops and takes shape as I write.
For example, I start with a quiet girl, not too pretty, with a crush on her best friend. That was what I needed, structurally.
The rest develops organically out of the plot and by asking myself what made her that way. I end up with a girl who seems cheerful, meek and compliant, but will break the rules secretly, who will present an acceptable face to the world while struggling with hidden feelings, who is loyal and loving to her friends but could go either way under pressure, showing either reckless courage or treachery caused by panic. Someone who lies to herself as well as to others, who is self effacing and prone to bitter jealousy. All that from "quiet girl with crush".
And from that, I started to think about her background, what about her life and her parents taught her to outwardly comply but secretly reach for what she wants now that she is an adult. Very little of it will make it to the game, but it will help make me write her consistently and in character.
Above all, she is what the plot needs her to be.
For many other people, though, character first, story lasts works better. If you are one them I would recommend googling character sheets; there are so many of them out there, of varying complexity, and all would be good starting points to ask yourself what makes your character tick. And once you know that, the rest should follow.
For example, I start with a quiet girl, not too pretty, with a crush on her best friend. That was what I needed, structurally.
The rest develops organically out of the plot and by asking myself what made her that way. I end up with a girl who seems cheerful, meek and compliant, but will break the rules secretly, who will present an acceptable face to the world while struggling with hidden feelings, who is loyal and loving to her friends but could go either way under pressure, showing either reckless courage or treachery caused by panic. Someone who lies to herself as well as to others, who is self effacing and prone to bitter jealousy. All that from "quiet girl with crush".
And from that, I started to think about her background, what about her life and her parents taught her to outwardly comply but secretly reach for what she wants now that she is an adult. Very little of it will make it to the game, but it will help make me write her consistently and in character.
Above all, she is what the plot needs her to be.
For many other people, though, character first, story lasts works better. If you are one them I would recommend googling character sheets; there are so many of them out there, of varying complexity, and all would be good starting points to ask yourself what makes your character tick. And once you know that, the rest should follow.
Milennin
2060
I think an easy way to get started by making a variety of characters is by basing characters on yourself, your friends and/or family. They don't have to be copies, they can be loosely based on people you know. Just as a form as inspiration.
At least it's what I did for my game. I (very) loosely based the main characters personalities off myself and my 2 friends. Even though we have a bunch of similarities as characters (we all like to kick butt, lol), there's still plenty of differences between them.
Put your created characters in a certain situation. If they naturally all react differently to the same situation then you know you've succeeded. Situations could be ranging from accepting a quest from an NPC to surprise-encountering a large boss monster (as some classic RPG scenarios).
I haven't played Final Fantasy, but Lightning sounds more like it would be the character's nickname, rather than its real name? In which case it would be OK?
At least it's what I did for my game. I (very) loosely based the main characters personalities off myself and my 2 friends. Even though we have a bunch of similarities as characters (we all like to kick butt, lol), there's still plenty of differences between them.
Put your created characters in a certain situation. If they naturally all react differently to the same situation then you know you've succeeded. Situations could be ranging from accepting a quest from an NPC to surprise-encountering a large boss monster (as some classic RPG scenarios).
author=PhantomLimb
ie. Lightning from FFXIII is a good example of what not to do.
I haven't played Final Fantasy, but Lightning sounds more like it would be the character's nickname, rather than its real name? In which case it would be OK?
nurvuss
958
Right you are. Her real name is . The thing about Lightning though is the fact that her main character trait is being a badass. She's not all that well-rounded.
Clare
Desertopa
775
author=PhantomLimb
I never found Harry Potter, Hunger Games, (insert literally any young adult fiction here) main characters interesting because they are essentially flawless.
I disagree. The protagonists of Harry Potter and The Hunger Games are far from flawless. Hell, a huge portion of Harry's actions throughout the series are completely quixotic and cause more problems than they solve due to his lack of introspection, poor planning abilities, and mistrust of authority. A character's flaws don't have to be like Tyrion's dwarfism, things that set them apart from the vast majority of the human race.
That's not to say that I'm arguing that the protagonists of Harry Potter or the Hunger games have flaws and therefore are good characters. Creating flawed characters isn't the goal, creating interestingly human characters is. Tyrion isn't an awesome character because he does cool stuff despite being a dwarf, he's an awesome character because he's a compellingly written individual, and the facts that he's short, ugly, and a disappointment to his father are all elements which shape his personality.
Elizer Yudkowski (Fellow of the Machine Intilegence Research Institute, author of Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality fanfic/rewrite), has a compelling theory of character development based around the following premise; Every character should be awesome, and one way to help you create awesome characters to imagine an awesome destiny for them, and reverse engineer character traits from that.
He gives an example in his blog (http://yudkowsky.tumblr.com/post/59810615510/to-create-an-awesome-character-envision-an-awesome)
but the relavant exercpt is here
Let’s say your hapless protagonist tossed into a magical universe is going to eventually - not in this story, but eventually - going to end up as Empress of a magical country. Or conquer the entire world. Or convert her new world to a democratic society. Or go toe-to-toe in magical power with Cthulhu.
Maybe someday you’ll write that sequel, and maybe someday you won’t…
…but just knowing that this has to happen someday will color your imagination of where this character starts, and what has to happen to her in the current novel.
If your protagonist starts out with a character deficit in Continuation - well, clearly she must have some awesome other qualities if she’s going to end up as Empress someday. She’d better be a keen observer and manipulator, and we should expect that over the course of the novel she’ll manage to insert herself into the flow of great events and get some powerful people in debt to her. Or she’ll be taking Very Advanced Math at a nearby university, which is how she gets her hands on all the magical power she’ll need.
The reader will never be told that you’re imagining her as a someday-Empress; that’s not going to happen in the current novel, maybe not for another 10 novels, none of which you’ll actually write. Talking about Empresses would just make her actual in-story accomplishments seem to pale in comparison.
But we’ve set her up to be a much more interesting person coming in, and your brain will be thinking of more exciting and vicariously powerful events to happen to her… now that you’re not just thinking about a high school girl who learns Continuation, but the high school girl who remedies her Continuation deficit on the way to becoming an Empress in her new world.
He gives an example in his blog (http://yudkowsky.tumblr.com/post/59810615510/to-create-an-awesome-character-envision-an-awesome)
but the relavant exercpt is here
Let’s say your hapless protagonist tossed into a magical universe is going to eventually - not in this story, but eventually - going to end up as Empress of a magical country. Or conquer the entire world. Or convert her new world to a democratic society. Or go toe-to-toe in magical power with Cthulhu.
Maybe someday you’ll write that sequel, and maybe someday you won’t…
…but just knowing that this has to happen someday will color your imagination of where this character starts, and what has to happen to her in the current novel.
If your protagonist starts out with a character deficit in Continuation - well, clearly she must have some awesome other qualities if she’s going to end up as Empress someday. She’d better be a keen observer and manipulator, and we should expect that over the course of the novel she’ll manage to insert herself into the flow of great events and get some powerful people in debt to her. Or she’ll be taking Very Advanced Math at a nearby university, which is how she gets her hands on all the magical power she’ll need.
The reader will never be told that you’re imagining her as a someday-Empress; that’s not going to happen in the current novel, maybe not for another 10 novels, none of which you’ll actually write. Talking about Empresses would just make her actual in-story accomplishments seem to pale in comparison.
But we’ve set her up to be a much more interesting person coming in, and your brain will be thinking of more exciting and vicariously powerful events to happen to her… now that you’re not just thinking about a high school girl who learns Continuation, but the high school girl who remedies her Continuation deficit on the way to becoming an Empress in her new world.
Desertopa
775
Eliezer is actually one of my favorite writers (he's one of a group of people I can count on the fingers of one hand whose ideas I've actually been envious of,) and I've been following his work for quite a while. I don't think he would actually stand by a prescription that every character should be awesome, or that he tries to use it in his own work. The point of that essay is more about a particular way of getting yourself to make the characters who're the focus or drive of the story to be awesome, in spite of the flaws they also need to possess.
Usually though, you need some characters who aren't awesome, in order to make the ones who are awesome stand out more.
Usually though, you need some characters who aren't awesome, in order to make the ones who are awesome stand out more.
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