OVER THE HILL AT 24?

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I thought this was going to be interesting,
Starcraft 2 as a test?
How do you know the players aren't just getting bored after playing so many years. Or less emotionally attached so your not reacting as much in tense situations?
I'm 24, and this study pisses me off :P




Sciencedaily.com Article Title: We're over the hill at 24, study says
Unless they look at data comparing the skills of each person as they age, that finding sound pretty ridiculous to me. You can't say that an older person is getting slower by averaging his data with other younger people. You have to compare it to his own data from when he was young.
author=Link_2112
Unless they look at data comparing the skills of each person as they age, that finding sound pretty ridiculous to me. You can't say that an older person is getting slower by averaging his data with other younger people. You have to compare it to his own data from when he was young.


That's a good a point. Starcraft 2 has only been out for 7 years. And they took samples from players that were 44 years old. It would impossible to get their data from when they were 24.

This sounds like something a college student would make(or make up) to get a project done.

LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Just in case the total ridiculousness of the actual study weren't enough...

This is the study's official illustration:


Is this a real news site or is it like the Onion?
Plus kids start playing complex games at an earlier age than us older folk did. They are bound to have increased potential.
Yellow Magic
Could I BE any more Chandler Bing from Friends (TM)?
3229
So I guess I have just over two years to make it big in competitive gaming.

Excuse me while I buy a PS3 and play Tekken Tag Tournament 2 for like 12 hours every day
author=Yellow Magic
So I guess I have just over two years to make it big in competitive gaming.

Excuse me while I buy a PS3 and play Tekken Tag Tournament 2 for like 12 hours every day

Tekken Tag 2! I hate you! I only played Tekken Tag 1. My favorite mode was the survival mode.

I think it is a real site. I look at it every now it then. Its pretty evil if it isn't. Its like the second choice for googling science.
pianotm
The TM is for Totally Magical.
32388
Recent scientific studies find that the majority of scientific studies just make up whatever they want.
I guess this a good time to bring this video up
Yup, scientists are pretty lol sometimes quite a bit of the time. Social and Psychological sciences seem to be the most prone to lulzy BS.

Reminds me of some study I heard about a few years ago where they "found a connection between soda consumption and Potassium deficiency" by studying some Greek people who drank "between 4.5 and 9 liters of soda a day", or something like that. At that level of consumption, a potassium deficiency is probably the least of your worries...
I thought it was sort of well-documented already that your reaction times are lower when you get older? (which is why many pro gamers are considered "peaked" what I feel is fairly early) And like the brief article says experience makes up for being slightly slower.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
I know I can't handle Yoshi's Story anymore. I used to be able to go one full story with that game without losing a single Yoshi. What's the deal?
I can't handle Starcraft 2, it wracks my brain. Its really the anticipation of getting my brain wracked that keeps me from reinstalling it. The game is just so complicated if your actually trying. You have to spy and micro manage while efficiently pumping resources and having units in queue. You literally have to spend your resources as fast as you make them, which is annoying when your leading an assault or even trying to defend.

To get even better you have to realize the strengths and weaknesses of every unit, and actively send the damaged units to the back row. And the sad part is if you do all this and your opponent is much faster in general, your #$@#ed. It has a very steep learning curve for those that wish to be a professional.

And here's some Actions Per Minute
(Another thing the study most likely didn't account, frequency)
~50 Casual player (.83 actions per second)
~75 Experienced player (1.25 aps)
~150 Proficient player (2.5 aps)
>200 Proficient player with superfluous actions (3.3 actions per second)

I'm just being a whiny bitch in reality, I'm sure if I played it I'd have fun.
author=Shinan
I thought it was sort of well-documented already that your reaction times are lower when you get older?

No doubt, but the way they "proved" that in the article seems unscientific. They didn't actually measure 1 person's reaction over time. All they can say for sure is that younger people have faster reaction times - not that the older people started declining at 24.

I facepalmed at work today when I was browsing CBC News.ca and saw that story x.x
author=pianotm
Recent scientific studies find that the majority of scientific studies just make up whatever they want.

I strongly agree with that statement.
pianotm
The TM is for Totally Magical.
32388
author=Link_2112
author=Shinan
I thought it was sort of well-documented already that your reaction times are lower when you get older?
No doubt, but the way they "proved" that in the article seems unscientific. They didn't actually measure 1 person's reaction over time. All they can say for sure is that younger people have faster reaction times - not that the older people started declining at 24.

I facepalmed at work today when I was browsing CBC News.ca and saw that story x.x


Here, you can use this:

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Yellow Magic
Could I BE any more Chandler Bing from Friends (TM)?
3229
author=trentinxd
Tekken Tag 2! I hate you! I only played Tekken Tag 1. My favorite mode was the survival mode.

I haven't played 2 either! That's why I'm saying I'm going to buy it as soon as I can.

author=trentinxd
I guess this a good time to bring this video up

Still probably the single funniest scene I've ever seen in a sitcom. It's Always Sunny rules.
author=Link_2112
author=Shinan
I thought it was sort of well-documented already that your reaction times are lower when you get older?
No doubt, but the way they "proved" that in the article seems unscientific. They didn't actually measure 1 person's reaction over time. All they can say for sure is that younger people have faster reaction times - not that the older people started declining at 24.

On the other hand is there a practical difference? The wording in the summary article might not be great but I do think that the science behind it is probably good. It was a big data statistical analysis and I guess you can make a bunch of conclusions from the data but I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption to make based on the data.

Sure another study might come along and disprove the theory that reaction times get slower when you get older, by following a number of players for a while (and might find that, in fact, 24 is the magic number). Then this study actually gets a bit more interesting. Because if age is not the reason older players are slower at a game, what is then the reason? Is there some kind of generational shift where players above 24 are from a generation that don't appreciate actions per minute as a way of playing? (as the statistics that different tactics are employed to make up for the slower gameplay mig be an indication of) Or some other reason?


Essentially I'm just annoyed at people who thinks that every single scientific study is bullshit (or at least every single scientific study that either 1) disagrees with a person's worldview and thus must be false or 2) seems like such an obvious common sense thing that it must be useless.
I really don't even know how they calculated it. I just feel like theirs too many factors involved. I feel like they didn't measure the frequency they play the game, and how emotionally involved they are(The older people might compare better with more frequency then the younger people, because they might learn slower). They should have taken the 9 yards and did brain scans while they were playing. (So they can see how emotionally involved they are)

Really, they should have the younger people follow up when they are in their 40's. This way, they could reinsert their notions.

Also ""After around 24 years of age, players show slowing in a measure of cognitive speed that is known to be important for performance," explains Thompson, the lead author of the study, which is his thesis."

"Older players, though slower, seem to compensate by employing simpler strategies and using the game's interface more efficiently than younger players, enabling them to retain their skill, despite cognitive motor-speed loss."

So, just how does it impact performance? If they are efficient and retain their skills, just how important is cognitive speed for performance? Maybe that is the question they are trying to raise? (The title and the wording doesn't help, but I doubt he wrote the article)

Anyway, what fun is it not too bash a study. :P? And I know I repeated some of the things just said.
There's a huuuuuge generational shift, as there is with every generation. Except this younger generation had a quantum leap forward thanks to advanced supercomputers. The problem with this study, as I see it, is that each generation of gamers had vastly different brain development growing up. So I feel that they can't be accurately compared, as they appear to have been in the study. It would be like comparing the life expectancies of past generations to current generations.

Kids have a huge head start on learning computers and complex strategies. They are going to reach the pro level much earlier in their brains development and are likely to out perform the previous generation at any given age. They developed those tools early and have many extra years to improve on them at a time where the brain is laying down a foundation of knowledge. Kids are playing photo realistic war games at 10 years old and mastering it.

Adults grew up with computers that struggled to show words and pictures in more than 256 colors. No internet, less knowledge overall. Most of us didn't even have serious online gaming until we were over 16+, and things were still slow and shitty looking. By the time we even had a chance to use all the advanced tools our brains reached a certain point in development. A point where things are already starting to max out. I was riding bikes, playing with dinky cars and playing NES mario bros at 10 years old. Mastering mario at 10 wouldn't seem like such an impressive feat now.

I will say though, that I personally rarely think studies are bogus. Mainly because I don't pay attention to them. Maybe if I read more of them I'd be like some of the others, but really there is no real criteria for doing a study and publishing the findings online. Anybody can do it, so its only natural that over time there will be a lot of poorly run studies with false info and findings. It used to be that only "experts" could publish studies so the results were "usually" more reliable. The internet has a tendency to ruin the integrity of everything.
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