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BALANCING DEVELOPMENT, FORUM CONTRIBUTIONS, AND MARKETING?
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CloseOkay, so this is something I've been thinking a lot about lately, and I think it's different enough from the occasional "how do I market my game?" topic that it warrants its own discussion.
I don't post here much (aside from updates on my own game) but it's not for any reason other than that I don't feel like I have enough time to get fully invested. I look at stat reports and am blown away at the number of post counts, review submissions, etc., that some amazing members of the community are able to submit. RMN is a fantastic resource and support forum for aspiring developers, and I would love to give back by being really active here. But whenever I get particularly inspired to do so, I realize there are so many other things holding me back.
Firstly, a full-time job. That's to be expected though -- it's only the lucky few indie developers who can count on this as anything more than a hobby. But when you add in time spent actually developing and trying to get something playable out there, the hours left in the day are already starting to dwindle. And then once your game actually IS released, you have to market it yourself. Reaching out to press, posting the link on forums, basically finding as big an audience as possible... That's hard work! Having worked in communications myself, I can safely say that part of the process is a full-time job in itself.
Obviously this community (and the handful of other RM-centric forums) is meant for developers. Your widest audience is probably not here. And knowing that, I find myself spending less and less time contributing to this community -- which I'd really like to do! -- and more and more time sending emails, posting on reddit, Googling for blogs and sites that might be interested, etc. After doing that for a while, it's tough to come here and add anything close to an insightful comment/review. And even if I carve out a little time to do so, there's always the guilt that oh yeah, I'm supposed to be working my game, and oh yeah, friends/family/pets/other interests have to fit in there somehow too.
I don't think this is a problem specific to me, so I thought I'd throw it out there... Maybe some of the more active members of RMN could offer some tips?
How do you balance participating in this community (or any community) with actually working on your game? Do you see posting in these forums as a type of marketing for your projects, or are they entirely separate things? If you're actively working to publicize a game, should you just not stress out about developer-focused communities like this one?
Thanks for reading... I really appreciate everyone's thoughts on the matter! And sorry if this post came across as self-pity or something, I'd really just love to know how you folks balance your workload.
I don't post here much (aside from updates on my own game) but it's not for any reason other than that I don't feel like I have enough time to get fully invested. I look at stat reports and am blown away at the number of post counts, review submissions, etc., that some amazing members of the community are able to submit. RMN is a fantastic resource and support forum for aspiring developers, and I would love to give back by being really active here. But whenever I get particularly inspired to do so, I realize there are so many other things holding me back.
Firstly, a full-time job. That's to be expected though -- it's only the lucky few indie developers who can count on this as anything more than a hobby. But when you add in time spent actually developing and trying to get something playable out there, the hours left in the day are already starting to dwindle. And then once your game actually IS released, you have to market it yourself. Reaching out to press, posting the link on forums, basically finding as big an audience as possible... That's hard work! Having worked in communications myself, I can safely say that part of the process is a full-time job in itself.
Obviously this community (and the handful of other RM-centric forums) is meant for developers. Your widest audience is probably not here. And knowing that, I find myself spending less and less time contributing to this community -- which I'd really like to do! -- and more and more time sending emails, posting on reddit, Googling for blogs and sites that might be interested, etc. After doing that for a while, it's tough to come here and add anything close to an insightful comment/review. And even if I carve out a little time to do so, there's always the guilt that oh yeah, I'm supposed to be working my game, and oh yeah, friends/family/pets/other interests have to fit in there somehow too.
I don't think this is a problem specific to me, so I thought I'd throw it out there... Maybe some of the more active members of RMN could offer some tips?
How do you balance participating in this community (or any community) with actually working on your game? Do you see posting in these forums as a type of marketing for your projects, or are they entirely separate things? If you're actively working to publicize a game, should you just not stress out about developer-focused communities like this one?
Thanks for reading... I really appreciate everyone's thoughts on the matter! And sorry if this post came across as self-pity or something, I'd really just love to know how you folks balance your workload.
SnowOwl
5188
I don't think most indie developers, especially on this site, spend as much time marketing their games as you seem to do, me included. I just post the game up with a description and a couple of screenshots on a couple of sites and call it a day.
I guess if I reached out more to people and actually asked them to play my games I might have a slightly larger playerbase.
I guess that might be why I have time to post pretty often, plus I take breaks from making games every now and then. I'm also a pretty efficient worker, at least when working on my games, probably because I have a few years experience with my program of choice. I just wish I was as efficient in real life.
I guess if I reached out more to people and actually asked them to play my games I might have a slightly larger playerbase.
I guess that might be why I have time to post pretty often, plus I take breaks from making games every now and then. I'm also a pretty efficient worker, at least when working on my games, probably because I have a few years experience with my program of choice. I just wish I was as efficient in real life.
Your games don't have half-bad download counts either (1.5k downloads for 2 of your games). I haven't released anything here but what I've seen is that it's mostly the really good-looking screenshots or the people who publicize their games unintentionally/intentionally via Screenshot Threads or support threads that gain lots of support here. Plus this site has a ton of users that are just actively seeking to support developers, and their games. Some people comment on games with n'ary a post to their name, so there's that.
But generally the thing about this group is that it's very close-knit, and personally I would much rather have the approval of good developers than random people that don't know their games. Not looking down at them or anything.
Me? I post here often and I hardly release nothing. I have no playable demos to my name, but that's OK, because I will soon. I probably check this site way too often, which is part of why my stuff hasn't got released yet, but that's OK, because I do whatever makes me feel fine. And I guess that's the limited amount of advice that I can give you from a person that has nothing to their name. Yay!
But generally the thing about this group is that it's very close-knit, and personally I would much rather have the approval of good developers than random people that don't know their games. Not looking down at them or anything.
Me? I post here often and I hardly release nothing. I have no playable demos to my name, but that's OK, because I will soon. I probably check this site way too often, which is part of why my stuff hasn't got released yet, but that's OK, because I do whatever makes me feel fine. And I guess that's the limited amount of advice that I can give you from a person that has nothing to their name. Yay!
I've been here for nearly five years and not half as active as I want to be. ;_; Maybe I should just stick to one community ( on the last site I was active I had just over 900 posts, which is nothing compared to the post count here. 0_o )
But being/getting known through the comm is a good way for people to check out your games if you seem cool enough. XD ( kidding )
But being/getting known through the comm is a good way for people to check out your games if you seem cool enough. XD ( kidding )
Sagitar
1926
Thanks for the responses so far! Definitely interesting stuff.
author=SnowOwlYet you still get a good amount of downloads for your games! Do you think having established a reputation for polished products on this site has helped? Like, do you think people who play your newest games are the same people who played your older ones and loved them? Because that seems like an ideal situation, where you have a solid, pre-existing audience base for everything you release, and you don't have to spend much time on trying to "sell" anything. Oh, and man am I jealous of your ability to churn out awesome games and move on to the next one. I find myself getting caught up on one single project for a looong time, even if the initial design is on a much smaller scale.
I don't think most indie developers, especially on this site, spend as much time marketing their games as you seem to do, me included. I just post the game up with a description and a couple of screenshots on a couple of sites and call it a day.
author=CashmereCatThat's a very good point, that number of downloads doesn't necessarily translate to quality of feedback. I'm definitely happy with the (more broad, I guess?) audience I've worked to find, but I would love more feedback from sites like this in particular. Especially from other people familiar with the RM software, who would understand more about the inner workings of these types of games and possibly have more -- or at least a different type of -- input to offer.
But generally the thing about this group is that it's very close-knit, and personally I would much rather have the approval of good developers than random people that don't know their games. Not looking down at them or anything.
author=SvielWould you recommend this strategy? I'm starting to consider it...
I sleep 4 hours a day and check RMN mostly during meal breaks q_q
author=yuna21This is really interesting too, and something I've thought about before... There are a handful of pretty active RM-focused communities out there, and I've found a game can get a really warm reception at one and be completely ignored at another. It's like each site has it's own personality and preferences, but I haven't quite worked out what they all are yet. Perhaps it's better to establish a home at one specific community and not worry about the others?
Maybe I should just stick to one community ( on the last site I was active I had just over 900 posts, which is nothing compared to the post count here. 0_o )
author=Sagitar
That's a very good point, that number of downloads doesn't necessarily translate to quality of feedback. I'm definitely happy with the (more broad, I guess?) audience I've worked to find, but I would love more feedback from sites like this in particular. Especially from other people familiar with the RM software, who would understand more about the inner workings of these types of games and possibly have more -- or at least a different type of -- input to offer.
If by different type you mean 10x more "you suck and your game does too" then yes, you are going to get a lot of that here. Just kidding, you have a lot of very active supportive members of this site that also know a lot of stuff. I'm glad to be a part of this community and even as a relative newcomer I feel like I've been here forever. I think that when my game is released it will have maybe a couple of hundred downloads at most but I will feel happy about that because the developers that I have met will hopefully play it and give me comforting words and then I'll feel good in myself with the illusion that everybody loves my game because 5 out of 5 people who played it liked it.
In all seriousness, I admire people who have the work ethic to churn out however many games, or even games of good quality. It makes me feel like I can do that inside. And that's a warm and fuzzy, reassuring feeling.
SnowOwl
5188
author=Sagitarauthor=SnowOwl
I don't think most indie developers, especially on this site, spend as much time marketing their games as you seem to do, me included. I just post the game up with a description and a couple of screenshots on a couple of sites and call it a day.
Yet you still get a good amount of downloads for your games! Do you think having established a reputation for polished products on this site has helped? Like, do you think people who play your newest games are the same people who played your older ones and loved them? Because that seems like an ideal situation, where you have a solid, pre-existing audience base for everything you release, and you don't have to spend much time on trying to "sell" anything. Oh, and man am I jealous of your ability to churn out awesome games and move on to the next one. I find myself getting caught up on one single project for a looong time, even if the initial design is on a much smaller scale.
Well, you're probably not alone in getting caught up in a single project and never finishing it. I feel like alot of people try to do too much for their projects and never finish anything, which is a shame. I guess it's because commercial RPGs are usually really long and people want to emulate that in RPG Maker and aim for 50+ hours.
The thing is those commercial games has a whole team working on that game, while we here on RPG Maker are usually alone.
I try to keep my games around 1 hour long nowadays, and I enjoy making those games alot more than never finishing anything.
That's probably part of why I get downloads too, I usually finish my projects in a reasonable amount of time. And having a couple of finished games really do bring up the download count, since if people liked your game a percentage of those players will play your next one.
Sviel
2006
The sleep part I don't recommend, but the brief forum checks I do.
It's easy to lose a lot of time, here, because there're a lot of interesting things. When I first joined, I spent countless hours reading every review on record...which was probably not the best use of my time.
I do like contributing, but, I prefer to do it by writing reviews and the occasional forum post rather than any prolonged presence.
It's easy to lose a lot of time, here, because there're a lot of interesting things. When I first joined, I spent countless hours reading every review on record...which was probably not the best use of my time.
I do like contributing, but, I prefer to do it by writing reviews and the occasional forum post rather than any prolonged presence.
^Hey, you're not alone. This site has tons of excellent, well-written reviews that can really help gam devs here. =) I also spent a fair amount of time reading reviews before becoming more active.
Addit
6394
I usually cut out all the useless clutter that’s not really necessary and gets primarily in your way, such as Blogger, Reddit, Facebook and the works (those things are distracting, yo). Unless you’re gaining in popularity or find these virtual tools extremely useful for you to get the job done (not to mention handle it with your current daily schedule), the best thing to do is to probably just cut back and just focus more on the semi-important things in life, like your projects. Remember, 80% of what you do on sites like here should be time spent making your games. No need to have a Facebook account for your stuff if you barely have enough games out there as it is or if they’re just not as popular as they could be.
As for the contributing factor here on the site, try to least submit one thing here usually once a month or two, like a review, article or whatever you can do just to give back and give other people a chance in the spotlight. You may feel like it’s a big waste of time on your end, but there are certain benefits towards your kindness. They may not pay off just right now but they will in the end when you start calling in for the favors. It’s all about scratching one’s butt in order for them to scratch yours.
As for posting here or there, try to at least come on once or twice a week and do about 3 – 6 posts a day on various different topics, screenshots and other people’s blogs. The more you get around, the more people will start to recognize you. Of course, don’t worry so much about this if you’re extremely busy or something’s come up; we can understand.
Oh, and if you really want to get noticed, you could always participate in some of the community events that’s going on here. That’s another good way to get even more recognized.
Either way, I think you just have to do what you can do without sacrificing a lot of your free time and being completely overwhelmed with all the tedious stuff you have to do. Keep it fun and keep it simple! Work on your projects as much as you can and consider coming here a bit of a break away from everything. No need to over-strain yourself; this is supposed to be fun! (Well, unless you don't want it to be fun.)
As for the contributing factor here on the site, try to least submit one thing here usually once a month or two, like a review, article or whatever you can do just to give back and give other people a chance in the spotlight. You may feel like it’s a big waste of time on your end, but there are certain benefits towards your kindness. They may not pay off just right now but they will in the end when you start calling in for the favors. It’s all about scratching one’s butt in order for them to scratch yours.
As for posting here or there, try to at least come on once or twice a week and do about 3 – 6 posts a day on various different topics, screenshots and other people’s blogs. The more you get around, the more people will start to recognize you. Of course, don’t worry so much about this if you’re extremely busy or something’s come up; we can understand.
Oh, and if you really want to get noticed, you could always participate in some of the community events that’s going on here. That’s another good way to get even more recognized.
Either way, I think you just have to do what you can do without sacrificing a lot of your free time and being completely overwhelmed with all the tedious stuff you have to do. Keep it fun and keep it simple! Work on your projects as much as you can and consider coming here a bit of a break away from everything. No need to over-strain yourself; this is supposed to be fun! (Well, unless you don't want it to be fun.)
Sagitar
1926
Thanks again for the responses! There is a ton of awesome stuff to be done on this site (reading reviews, participating in events/discussions, actually playing games) it can be overwhelming. As most of you have said, it seems like it does come down to focus and trying to remember that actually working on your project is top priority.
Addit, your points about social media and the like were really interesting, as I definitely find myself falling into that trap. Submitting something here regularly should be much higher on the list than scanning through pages of Facebook or Reddit posts about games and game development.
It's also a really good reminder that this is supposed to be FUN at the end of the day. It's a hobby, and being able to relax and enjoy making games is important to not getting overwhelmed or going crazy from the inevitable tedium.
So, another question for the peanut gallery... how important do you think "giving back" to the community is? Are you more willing to play someone's game if you see them active on the forums or posting feedback about other people's projects? Or is a good game just a good game, regardless of the developer's other activities?
Addit, your points about social media and the like were really interesting, as I definitely find myself falling into that trap. Submitting something here regularly should be much higher on the list than scanning through pages of Facebook or Reddit posts about games and game development.
It's also a really good reminder that this is supposed to be FUN at the end of the day. It's a hobby, and being able to relax and enjoy making games is important to not getting overwhelmed or going crazy from the inevitable tedium.
So, another question for the peanut gallery... how important do you think "giving back" to the community is? Are you more willing to play someone's game if you see them active on the forums or posting feedback about other people's projects? Or is a good game just a good game, regardless of the developer's other activities?
SnowOwl
5188
A good game is always a good game, but more than once have I played another persons game because I checked out his profile after he said or did something and then got interested.
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