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HOW DO YOU MAKE RANDOM ENCOUNTERS FEEL WELCOME?
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CashmereCat
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Simple answer: You don't. Best way is to make on-map enemies that moves in random pattern and start fight when touched. It isn't hard.
It's not, but it's not exactly an objectively preferred system that doesn't warrant discussion on alternative ways.
Desertopa
775
I'm not particularly a fan of random pattern touch encounters. If they're going to attack you on contact, it stands to reason that they'd actively pursue you on sight as well. My favorite implementations of touch encounters generally have the enemy track the player rather than moving around at random.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
I don't have a strong opinion on random vs. touch; in terms of making random encounters more welcome, I like having the option to (mostly) avoid them until I actually want them, such as with Pokemon's Repel items. I don't want to just avoid any battles, but sometimes I don't feel like dealing with those ambushing assholes.
Obviously this isn't a solution for every game, but part of welcoming is not having them all over. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, right? :V
Obviously this isn't a solution for every game, but part of welcoming is not having them all over. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, right? :V
It's worth keeping in mind that commercial developers are expected to create games which have a certain amount of playtime. Strong random encounter rates help to meet this goal.
We, as nonprofit hobbyists, are not subject to this burden, and can make a game in any manner of our choosing.
We, as nonprofit hobbyists, are not subject to this burden, and can make a game in any manner of our choosing.
RyaReisender
200
In Tales of Phantasia there are Holy Bottles and Dark Bottles. Usually you have an encounter every ~16 steps. If you use Holy Bottles you have an encounter every ~32 steps, if you use a Dark Bottle, you have an encounter every ~8 steps.
This really helps adjusting the encounter rate to whatever you feel comfortable with. I always actively used Holy Bottles in that game unless I wanted to grind or really enjoyed combat in the current area.
This really helps adjusting the encounter rate to whatever you feel comfortable with. I always actively used Holy Bottles in that game unless I wanted to grind or really enjoyed combat in the current area.
Never been a fan of random encounters ( almost stopped me from playing FF6. Almost ). I use a system in my games where the foes are on-map encounters, and chase you once you get within four tiles. And while random encounters do serve as effective padding to increase the length of a game, if the fights are boring button-mashing fests, they become a waste of the player's time and investment in the game.
RyaReisender
200
I don't think it's the fault of random encounter that the battles are boring.
The problem most people do random encounter just by making a set of a bunch of different encounter chosen randomly.
Replace that by a system that automatically put 1-10 monsters from a selected of 5 different monsters types together randomly each battle and you already will not see any encounter twice.
The problem most people do random encounter just by making a set of a bunch of different encounter chosen randomly.
Replace that by a system that automatically put 1-10 monsters from a selected of 5 different monsters types together randomly each battle and you already will not see any encounter twice.
Eh... I prefer to have a bit more control over monster parties than that. Then again, I tend to make monster actions rely on what other monsters are in a party and have them play off each other, so...
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
The amount of extra variety you can create just by having enemy formations built randomly out of a set of enemies, instead of only having 5-6 set formations, makes me seriously confused as to why that isn't just the standard.
Treason89
360
I think it has something to do with the other tread "Enemy encounters that make sense"... Probably if you just mix some them (that may be are not supposed to) it may lead to strange combinations. It would take out the possibilities of strategy (as some enemy parties may have strategies against the player) or it would produce unbalanced fights. Think about caves where there are weak and strong enemies, and legendary, rare, strong enemies. If the odds are even, and a enemy party is just random, then you can end with 3-4 strong enemies, probably far beyond the player abilities.
It may also have something to do with how the enemy parties started in first instance. Fights where one-on-one first... then parties appeared (for allies and enemies) but only with two (or three) enemies, very specific to the place you where fighting. Probability of groups would be from 4 to 9 (depending on enemy variability and group size) so may be a random generator wasn't a need then (may be the systems wouldn't even have the capacity to have such). Nowadays, with a lot of enemies and needs of the players things may be different, but the standard got stuck.
It may also have something to do with how the enemy parties started in first instance. Fights where one-on-one first... then parties appeared (for allies and enemies) but only with two (or three) enemies, very specific to the place you where fighting. Probability of groups would be from 4 to 9 (depending on enemy variability and group size) so may be a random generator wasn't a need then (may be the systems wouldn't even have the capacity to have such). Nowadays, with a lot of enemies and needs of the players things may be different, but the standard got stuck.
Uh, because some of us actually like to build groups that work together? I mean, I like to have it so that if an enemy is with another it might attack that one, but if with another it might ally with it. I think it adds a bit extra to the game if thought about that is put in. I'm controlling with actual enemy groups but not so with skill damage. ^.^
Also, scripted battles.
Also, scripted battles.
I don't like that idea of totally random, limitless variety in encounters. While I dislike the other end of the spectrum where there's little variety in enemy formations, Liberty's mindset of enemies playing off each other is fantastic and has worked beautifully in games like Breath of Fire IV. Not every formation has to be like that, but there is some measure of quality in things being a little bit predictable, rather than a random mooshing together of any enemy every which way.
Besides, there's gameplay rationale for encountering the same enemy twice. What if there's something you want to steal? What if you cooked up a cool strategy that you want to try out on this specific monster? What if you just like fighting that enemy?
Besides, there's gameplay rationale for encountering the same enemy twice. What if there's something you want to steal? What if you cooked up a cool strategy that you want to try out on this specific monster? What if you just like fighting that enemy?
RyaReisender
200
Not the same formation ever does not mean that you won't see the same enemy again.
In the very few games that have almost fully random monster combinations that I have played, it worked perfectly for me. For example Shining In The Darkness.
In the very few games that have almost fully random monster combinations that I have played, it worked perfectly for me. For example Shining In The Darkness.
Nah, I think I'll pass, but that's my preference. I really like Breath of Fire IV's cooperative enemy formation that's themed on the environment/location.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Well, if you have a three-way battle, that's really just two enemy formations to randomize.
But if you've got a typical dungeon with 4 types of enemies who all can appear alongside each-other, it's dumb to only have 7 formations (unless the dungeon is short enough to only last 5-6 battles). Fighting the exact same enemy formation you already fought once is just so unbearably boring to me. The extra randomness will significantly increase the amount of time before the enemies wear out their welcome.
I'm not saying just unstructured randomness, obviously you'd want to limit the number of enemies that can appear in a single battle, and randomize that limit, and weight the stronger enemies to count as like 1.6 enemies worth of difficulty, and be able to flag some enemies like healers to only appear once per battle, etc., etc.
But if you've got a typical dungeon with 4 types of enemies who all can appear alongside each-other, it's dumb to only have 7 formations (unless the dungeon is short enough to only last 5-6 battles). Fighting the exact same enemy formation you already fought once is just so unbearably boring to me. The extra randomness will significantly increase the amount of time before the enemies wear out their welcome.
I'm not saying just unstructured randomness, obviously you'd want to limit the number of enemies that can appear in a single battle, and randomize that limit, and weight the stronger enemies to count as like 1.6 enemies worth of difficulty, and be able to flag some enemies like healers to only appear once per battle, etc., etc.
I prefer between 5-12 enemies in an area (depending on length) with a decent mix of groups. For example, Seer Dell: Dragon had only the one dungeon - an ice maze - which had 6 different enemies, but 13 different enemy groups (not counting boss). That, I think, is a pretty decent amount of variation.
I just like that kind of stuff to appear random when it actually isn't~ ^.^
I just like that kind of stuff to appear random when it actually isn't~ ^.^
Ha! Ha ha ha ha!
Ha haa haaaaaa ha ha!
HaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Each 'dungeon' (dungeon crawler, big dungeon, 25 floors, every five floors is its own area with its own enemies) has two sets of enemies. The regular dudes and power enemies which are palette swaps with new move sets and stronger stats. There's a tenuous link between normal and palette swap enemies. The first two floors of a dungeon have one subset of enemy encounters where the # of enemies is two, occasionally three with weaker enemies. Here is where the player starts to learn of what the new enemies are and what they can do. The rest of the floors get the full size of regular enemies, 3-4 per group (rarely five, that makes the 2k3 atb go to shit). Now for power enemies, when the cumulative character cumulative level is high enough there's a chance you'll fight one of the palette swaps aka a power enemy. Each power enemy only appears solo once and once you defeat each solo encounter every encounter is now a full group power enemy encounter. These ranged from 2-4 (rarely 5 again) encounters again that can occur on any floor of that area.
Mt. Lycaeum had the most enemies, the lowest was 18 counting the regular, power enemies, and boss. Each area had about the same amount of encounters though, I preallocated my m.group blocks and filled them ri~ight up....
One great thing about using rips from all variety of games is it's easy to pile up different looking monsters.
Ha haa haaaaaa ha ha!
HaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Each 'dungeon' (dungeon crawler, big dungeon, 25 floors, every five floors is its own area with its own enemies) has two sets of enemies. The regular dudes and power enemies which are palette swaps with new move sets and stronger stats. There's a tenuous link between normal and palette swap enemies. The first two floors of a dungeon have one subset of enemy encounters where the # of enemies is two, occasionally three with weaker enemies. Here is where the player starts to learn of what the new enemies are and what they can do. The rest of the floors get the full size of regular enemies, 3-4 per group (rarely five, that makes the 2k3 atb go to shit). Now for power enemies, when the cumulative character cumulative level is high enough there's a chance you'll fight one of the palette swaps aka a power enemy. Each power enemy only appears solo once and once you defeat each solo encounter every encounter is now a full group power enemy encounter. These ranged from 2-4 (rarely 5 again) encounters again that can occur on any floor of that area.
One great thing about using rips from all variety of games is it's easy to pile up different looking monsters.
