MALAYSIA AIRLINES BOEING CRASH IN UKRAINE

I'm still going with the thought that the rebels assumed it was a war plane of some kind. They've already noted taking down fighters/non-civilian planes near that altitude before.

I mean really, taking down a civilian plane... I can't see how there could be something to gain from that, in the rebels position.

EDIT: Also, the theories that Putin personally had something to do with it hold no value to me. What would he have to gain from that? More political shitstorming? A worse reputation with Americans/Ukrainians? Give him some credit, he's not THAT stupid/heartless.

I apologize if I offend anybody who might have lost or knows someone who lost a loved one on the Malaysian plane, but it should be said outright. This was a false flag operation. Granted, it was a bungle of a job and it'll probably be swept out of news as subtly as the one that disappeared over the Pacific.

First off, the plane had no business being there. On July 8, in response to the shooting down of a real military aircraft, the State Aviation Administration of Ukraine closed its airspace to civilian aircraft. Why was this plane allowed to fly through a designated war zone?

Secondly, it's well known the pro-Russian rebels had control of a BUK SA11 missile launcher. They boasted about it on twitter on June 29! Knowing this, wouldn't a responsible government redirect all civilian air traffic well away from potential disaster?

Third, the Ukrainian government released audio it claims proves the guilt of Pro-Russian forces in downing the aircraft. The problem is, they released the audio several hours before the plane actually went down. A classic case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing...

Fourth, and this is more tenuous, there's the case of the "Carlos" fellow who tweeted under @spainbuca. He was tweeting, in real time, as the Ukrainian military took command of air traffic control in Kiev, where he works, at 10:25am, and by 10:30am the plane was off the radar and hysteria already brewing about it being "shot down".
I don't know how credible this is. A lot of the dinosaur news agencies insist on omitting time zones in this globalized world, so it's hard to do cross-checking.
But it is interesting to see that the best debunking anyone can muster regarding his existence is to suggest there were no spaniards working in air traffic control ("Carlos", right?). That would be like saying I don't exist because there's nobody with a super saiyan level 3 hairstyle in Canada.

Anyway, I'm of the opinion that the Ukrainian government, getting it's ass kicked by the separatists, committed this to bring in support from the rest of the world.

Dyhalto, where did you read or hear that the airspace was closed to all civilian air traffic??

I've seen many news shows and read many articles but do not remember seeing anything that said that airspace was closed.
I also remember seeing a news show that said the plane was forced into that area because of a bad weather on their original route.

I seriously doubt Putin ordered that to be done.
But come on, he has been backing and using those separatists for a while. There are Russian military guiding them. Does anyone really think a local farmer or even someone in the military would be able to use that Buk weapon without at least several weeks of training on the use of that weapon? What that tells me is Putin authorized the training or he ok'd the use of one of his military to show them how to use the Buk.

Dyhalto, you're right. I read an article saying saying the Ukrain did closed that airspace to commercial traffic, but I also found the following: "No one should fault an airline for flying over the conflict zone, because the airspace above 32,000 feet was an open corridor for air traffic" and the plane shot down was at 33,000ft. I guess mostly I'm saying no one but a trained person could use that weapon correctly so it was either a Russian or a separatist trained by Russia.
As for why Putin should stay out of the trouble in Ukrain....it's not his country and if those people want to be led by Putin they should move to Russia.
What you said means any group of Americans in a foreign country can claim a piece of that country for themselves and expect President Obama to send in the Marines to back them up. Come on Dhyalto, it was Putins' instigation that this whole thing became as bad as it is. Most of the world knows Putin and his government control Russias media and they are told almost nothing but lies to make him appear right in their eyes. And please don't try and make anyone believe Obama controls the US media. If you REALLY believe that, then Google FOX NEWS and take a look at the way they slam Obama on a daily basis.

OK, off to nity night for me.
Have a good night and we can continue this argument tomorrow night :)

PS If you start calling me names I'll give your game a bad review :) hahaha

@Pizza (my fav.food:), They and a few others went through that space also because they flew at more then 32,000ft because it would probably bankrupt them to do anything else and no one expected a group of rebels to be able to hit a plane at that height. It really looks like a trained pro did the actual setting on the computer and firing of that missle.

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After the rising tension in Ukraine, people in my country are getting paranoid.
There's clear signs of an all out war here. It'll be south-east asia against China. And with US stepping in, it only seems inevitable.

As for the plane,
the fact that it was shot from 33,000 ft (as Linkis had said), implies use of heavy weaponry. This clearly spells trouble, and soon enough, US is going to poke it's head in and blow a hole in something. Chaos ensues afterwards.

I just don't get the reason why they're fighting. Crimea voluntarily decided to go to Russia. Can't they just talk about it or something?

Gees Pizza, calm down or you'll get this thread locked and we will not be able to argue anymore :)
OK, I'm out of bed, finally, so let the war of words begin :) just kidding.

I guess if you think about it, the people of all countries are pretty much OK.
Basically, it's the governments of the countries who are the problem, including the gov't. of the US and I live in the US:) so I can blame them also.

My sister-in-law is German and I remember the stories she told about cowering in doorways when the bombs were dropping on Germany. I felt so bad for her having to live like that. It was not the fault of the people, it was the fault of Hitler and his government.
I've met several people from Russia who moved to the US. They seemed like very nice people. Again, it's not the people, it's the governments who think they know better.

From what I've seen and read, there were some people in the Ukraine who were unhappy with the way they thought the Russian speaking people of Ukraine were being treated and not allowed to take part in the ruling of the government. If I'm wrong, then OK, but that is what I've seen and read. Maybe if Putin and the Russian government had let them sort out their own problems, none of this would have happened. But just like Pizza thinks about the US, some of the US thinks about the Russian gov't. Reports about Putin is that he was an officer in the KGB and would like to gather the parts of Russia that separated from Russia to be brought back under the Russian government control again. IF THAT IS TRUE, then yes, I can blame him and the parts of the government he rules for pretty much everything that is happening in the area of his world.

OK, I've said my part for now :)

We just can't talk peace, and have a gun...

Linkis, I'd like to say that all governments are made up of people. So the only way to stop all this is either we come to a common understanding, or eradicate the opposing side.
All of this, mind you, have sprung from each individual countries' insecurities. They all want what they think is best for themselves and their fellowmen, and they think that the other countries are hindering them.
It's human nature to fight, as what Pizza pointed out to me.

UNRELATED: KGB is a football club here in my locality. It's also one of the best here.