SOOO... GAMERGATE

I actually agree with your last statement.

author=EdgeOfChaos
It makes no sense to say "This is how it was for me, so this is how it is for other all people"

And I fixed it for you. This IS how it is for OTHER people.

Lock the thread.

author=TehGuy
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/worst-thread-ever-general-gaming-sjw-dumping-ground-currently-airing-gamergate.90469/page-367#post-3542787

People are shooting this link down too quickly. It's a pretty objective standpoint that makes a lot of sense to me, and I hate 99 percent of everything I read.

Also, I agree with EdgeOfChaos about the insult thing:

Pussy and wiener are synonyms that both mean "weakling."
Dick and cunt are synonyms that both mean "jerk."

Calling a woman a cunt can definitely have further reaching implications, and it's generally a good idea to avoid that if you don't like the idea of getting burned at the stake, but, in the general sense, there's nothing more insulting about female genitalia than male genitalia, at least in my experience. It's just like being called a "dumb fuck." People aren't consciously thinking you're bad at sex when they say it, it's just a substanceless insult, and since there's shame and taboo around genitalia, they make good substanceless insults, too.

author=Pizza
I think it's rather obvious that girls can be whatever they want in society.

Can be, yes. Are, no.

Forbes women in senior management

Fortune 500 Women

Parliamentary seats held by women Yemen, Qatar and Palau are letting the side down.

Women as head of state this one is from 2012 but it's not changed much.

I'm not refuting your other points, I don't disagree with some of them, and generalisation gets you in trouble every time, but the problem here is simply a case of this is something that could be, but it is not something that currently is.

The sheer fact that there is a handful or male-gendered insults vs the literal crap-load of female ones is totes personal experience! Sure.

There are maybe four or five male gendered insults that are used often. They aren't considered very insulting to anyone. You can call someone a dick and not be looked at twice.

Here: I went through a list of 'bad words' and pulled out all the male and female gendered ones. Should prove a point. Note which ones are considered more severe and insulting.

Male
Bollocks
Boner
Chode
Cock
Dick
Dickhead
Nutsack
Pecker
Penis
Prick
Renob
Schlong
Scrote
Skeeter
Testicle


Female
Axwound
Bimbo
Bitch
Bitchtits
Boob/y
Callgirl
Camel toe
Clit
Coochie
Cooter
cumdumpster
cumslut
Cunnie
Cunt
Cunthole
Clitface
Douche
Douchebag
Girl
Gooch
Hoochie
Hooker
Ho
Kooch
Minge
Muff
Panooch
Pissflaps
Poon
Poonani
Poontang
Punta
Pussy
Queef
Skank
Slut
Snatch
Tit
Tramp
Trollop
Twat
Vajayjay
Vag
Vagina
Whore
Woman

These were found over various sites on swear words. I excluded the homosexual ones because they could have been their own list (there's a lot of them) as well as repetitive ones that use the same word to the same effect.

author=Isrieri
Women shouldn't be entitled to special treatment! They have the same damn opportunities as we do! Men and women should be on even turf!" is what I imagine they shout.

They.. uh.. don't.

I'd be happier turning the discussion to why the authorities aren't doing shit about this

This, however, has been something buzzing around my mind as well. I've yet to see anyone toting anything around about someone on either side actually getting arrested for the threats and other shit going down (doxxing, etc)

The only bit of real legal action I've seen tell of is the whole deal with Mr.Cernovich

author=Pizza
I was pretty put off in our Introduction to the Games Industry class when every job was listed as being 80%+ staffed by men.

I'm not, to be honest... I feel as if a good way to help fix that, though, would to be to somehow garner more interest in STEM fields (comp sci classes and all that). Lord, I remember how barren my HS comp sci and calc classes where.. In both there were literally maybe two or three women :I

I'm just happy uni seems to have a larger representation.. Hopefully it'll grow over the years

EDIT: apparently some stuff went down about it on the Colbert Report just a few hours ago (GG, that is)

Men cat-call women and consider it a compliment.

I have legitimately, honestly never been witness to a man cat calling a woman in public. I worked in construction too- often depicted as the root of cat calling. I've had guys ask me if I'd do a girl, which was person to person and not screamed at some passer by, so it's completely acceptable behaviour.

I have. Many times. I've also heard about it from friends, family and other women that I've met and worked with in the past. It happens a lot.

One friend of mine was followed for half a block by a guy because she didn't smile at his 'compliment' about her breasts.

My sister - when she was 15 - thought she was going to be raped by one guy who she smiled at one time after he told her she was cute - he followed her home. She was terrified. The next time she saw him, his friends were laughing while he talked about how 'that slut over there (her) wanted him so badly that she showed him where she lived' and that he was going to 'visit her soon'.
She doesn't smile at people anymore because to a woman, a compliment can get you killed - just because a man thinks you led him on and denied him what he wanted.

My cousin is harrassed almost every day by a group of older teens when she walks too and from school. She asked them politely to stop, explained that it made her nervous (which was a huge thing for her because she's very shy) and they laughed it off, telling her she should 'learn to take a compliment' and that 'she shouldn't dress so sexy'. She wears a school uniform to school - the pants version, because she's scared of showing any skin to give them something to 'compliment'... not that it stops them. Now they just comment on how nice her 'ass looks in those pants'.

Many of the women I've worked with - even older ones - are harrassed every day. Whether it be men whistling at them while they walk down the street, men demanding they smile 'to look pretty', men giving opinions on what they're wearing "You should try wearing a skirt next time, baby!" or what they're doing "Bend over more so I can see that ass!"... there are literally hundreds of examples in my life alone.

This is not new and is a component of every day life for a woman. It exists and it is rampant.

Really, go ask the women in your life about cat calls and the like. Sit down and ask for a serious talk - just note that what they do tell you about is the very tip of the iceberg.

Just because we don't complain about this to men doesn't mean it doesn't happen. You know why we don't talk about this to men? Because that is the kind of shit we get back in return:
"I've never seen it."
"I never heard of such a thing happening."
"It's only some men, not all of us."
"I've never done that!"

:|

Men are almost never shown sexed up - the male version of sexed-up is either them wearing a suit or underwear in an underwear ad.

While not as insulting or pervasive as women being used for marketing, society presents unfair "goals" to men all the time. Nigh every male protagonist or ad subject is depicted as being tall, dark and handsome, composed of 99% pure muscle. You could say "but that's positive!" but it isn't. Many people can't even actually get that physically fit, and it implies that if you aren't Hercules then you aren't really a man at all.

Right... because women aren't taught from a young age that they have to be an amazon to be considered pretty. That they must look a certain way in order to be worthy of love.
Oh, you can't wear those clothes or the boys won't notice you. You can't go out without make-up or you won't look good for men! You want to look good for men!
You're too fat. You're too thin. You're face is the wrong shape. You nose it too big. No, wait, it's not big enough! You're legs aren't the right shape. You don't have big enough breasts. Wait, no, you need more of an hour-glass figure! You can't go out looking like that! Your dress is too short/long. Your make-up is too much/little. You look like a whore, a slut, a prostitute. You look like a prude, a virgin, an old lady.

Society pushes women all the time - look like supermodels because that's 'what men want'. Even though the supermodels don't look like their photos, that is what is constantly pushed as the ideal for a woman to live up to.

Men have expectations, yes, but their expectations are to succeed. Women's expectations are to change everything they are in order to 'get the guy'. A man with enough money can rock a beer-gut and be balding and still get the hot girl, but a woman can't do the same. She has to use her success to make herself look good and then she can spring for the cute guy. But before 'improving' herself? Yeah, good luck with that...

This is completely outdated information that was outdated even when I was a kid. My female friends and family talked about their future all the time and not once did they seem limited in what they could be. There's a woman running for president right now, and there's been a female Prime Minister of Canada and tons of female leaders all around the world, as well as females in just about any role that you can think of. I think it's rather obvious that girls can be whatever they want in society.

Oh really? Because girls are still being pushed out of the different science, engineering, mechanic, mathematical and other 'man'-based areas all through school. They have to be better than the boys in order to be considered on the same level.

I had a job where I was heads and shoulders the best worker. I was also the only female at that time. I was passed over for promotion three times because 'our clients wouldn't respect a woman as much as they would a man, so sorry' - even though the men who got said promotion were lazy assholes who did the work in question wrong and constantly messed up (the fact that they had three men replace each other for the same position due to said lazyness and messing up says a lot as to their being fit for that position). And because of those three men the company lost it's lucrative contracts. I quit before they could let me go - principle of the thing -, even though they begged me to stay because 'I was their best asset.' They eventually offered me a promotion but by that time the company was basically sunk. Nope.

Yeah, that's a personal anecdote, but it's one I've heard a thousand times from a thousand other women. And those are the ones who will talk.


Anyway, this is getting off the subject of GG and into other territory. So, back to the subject at hand:
GamerGate should burn in a fire because nothing is going to come from a movement that was started for the sole purpose of attacking a person instead of an ideal.

OH! Men not being shown sexed up! I had this discussion with my wife. She bet me and we went to Barnes and Noble to the magazine section. Except for fashion mags, crafts and most gun mags, almost every magazine had a woman with a bikini on the cover, including Men's Health and even some of the gaming mags. I was only able to find one magazine with a half naked muscle man on the cover aside from the weight lifting mags and my wife laughed her ass off. It was a gay mag!

author=Corfaisus

author=Pizza
I have legitimately, honestly never been witness to a man cat calling a woman in public. I worked in construction too- often depicted as the root of cat calling. I've had guys ask me if I'd do a girl, which was person to person and not screamed at some passer by, so it's completely acceptable behaviour.

You see, that's kind of a part of the problem in and of itself. You're taking a woman you don't know, demoting her to an object to have sex with and entertaining the thought without her knowing. How is this any different than any of Liberty's personal experiences?

Though your general point stands, I don't think that's what he meant at all.

Honestly, if it's between yourself and a friend, it's quite normal - saying 'wow, they're hot' or 'she's really cute'. Women do that too - "Major hottie at 4 o'clock!" and "Oooh, he's looking sharp!" What you say to a friend out of hearing is very different to what you shout out for any and every person to hear.

It's about shoving your unwarranted opinion on the person in question without them asking for it in any way, shape or form. If they're in a bar and you go up and tell them you think they look good tonight that's different to shouting out to a person on the street to 'show us your tits!' Very, very different. (Mainly because the social constructs are more flexible in a bar where people expect to meet others. Also, she can tell you to go away and have various bar staff back her up if she feels that you're overstepping your bounds and annoying her. Not so if you're shouting at her from the street - because other people there aren't obligated to help if it goes wrong.)

(I have had someone shout "show us your tits" at me, btw. I was walking home from the supermarket with a bag in each hand, just minding my own business (not that it should have mattered if I hadn't been)
The last male irl that I told that to asked me what I was wearing at the time. My reply was "clothes" because it shouldn't matter if I were wearing a mini and tank top or a long, conservative dress - it's still harrassment, but apparently it's the women's fault if she was wearing something that shows any skin. I'm not even going to go into victim blaming. >.<; )

author=Gourd_Clae
@Avee I'm sure plenty of men can't relate but saying we can't accurately understand isn't something I really agree with. It actually feels like a bit of a slap in the face for trying to understand.

I absolutely agree with the rest of your post though.

No one can truly step into another person's shoes and fully grasp their experiences. Being able to find relationship and sympathy is nice, but you can't say you understand the impact of what they're going through when in actually, you share little to none of their traits. Don't take it personally, it's just a fact.