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"ON LET'S PLAYS" - DEV EXPRESSES PLIGHT OVER HOW LP'S HAVE IMPACTED HIS GAME'S SALES
Posts
Liberty
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CloseYour opinion is pretty stupid, namely because there's not such thing as a 'true gamer'. If you game then you're a fucking gamer, no ifs or buts about it. Play gam? True gama!
And gamers watch LPs as much as non-gamers do (probably more than, if we're being realistic. There's something about reliving an experience through someone else and watching their reactions to a game you liked/didn't like that is fun and interesting. It's like asking someone else's opinion on something and actually listening to what they have to say, though I guess if your definition of 'true gamer' is something along the lines of "let's exclude all these people who don't know some obscure bullshit fact about some game that was made in the 70s oh and anyone who plays games that don't fit in my limited category of what a real game is" then maybe you're not the kind of person who will listen to other people and actually enjoy seeing what their opinions on something might be, since those who act like that tend to have their heads so far up their own arses that they can't see the sunshine for the shit).
So, yeah, sorry but your opinion is pretty dumb in this regard.
And gamers watch LPs as much as non-gamers do (probably more than, if we're being realistic. There's something about reliving an experience through someone else and watching their reactions to a game you liked/didn't like that is fun and interesting. It's like asking someone else's opinion on something and actually listening to what they have to say, though I guess if your definition of 'true gamer' is something along the lines of "let's exclude all these people who don't know some obscure bullshit fact about some game that was made in the 70s oh and anyone who plays games that don't fit in my limited category of what a real game is" then maybe you're not the kind of person who will listen to other people and actually enjoy seeing what their opinions on something might be, since those who act like that tend to have their heads so far up their own arses that they can't see the sunshine for the shit).
So, yeah, sorry but your opinion is pretty dumb in this regard.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
author=zeello
imo a true gamer wouldn't watch a let's play for any game.
IMO a True Scotsman wouldn't play tennis. :V
author=zeello
imo a true gamer wouldn't watch a let's play for any game.
yeah, what does this even mean
So if you actually made a game you wouldn't watch a LP of your own game?
author=LockeZ
Rock and roll music does not lead to drugged-out orgies
Bobbi-Kelly-and-Nick-Ercoline-Woodstock-1969
....or DID IT??
also I am dumb because I don't watch LPs (except for my own games). I think they are boring. But generally, if I have to choose between WATCHING something (anything - TV shows, movies, LPs, etc) and PLAYING something (anything - SNES, PC game, boardgames, pool, hockey, etc) I am going to choose PLAYING.
Playing wins every time.
Crystalgate
694
author=kentona
also I am dumb because I don't watch LPs (except for my own games). I think they are boring. But generally, if I have to choose between WATCHING something (anything - TV shows, movies, LPs, etc) and PLAYING something (anything - SNES, PC game, boardgames, pool, hockey, etc) I am going to choose PLAYING.
Playing wins every time.
If just people who are into sports instead of video games thought the same. More healthy people and less overpaid sport stars.
I was originally going to comment on this beforehand when this topic was initially created, but I guess somewhere along the line I must have dosed off (oops).
Anyways, this might be a bit weird to some, but I actually AM one of those types of people (although rare as shit) who do prefer to watch Let’s Play videos rather than playing the actual game myself. I know, I know, it’s a bit weird and all – but here me out:
As I’ve gotten older and have had less time to play a lot of commercial games nowadays with my job and all and with money being as tight as shit these days (f**k you, Vancouver, and your high cost of living - ughhh), in order to continue and follow some of my favorite video game franchises as a kid I’ve resorted to watch other people play the games for me. Not only can I still follow along with what’s going on in regards to the plot and all, but I also to get to kind of experience the game a little bit and save some money along the way. Besides, the last couple of home consoles that I’ve owned, like the Wii and the Xbox 360, mainly just sat there and I only bought, like, 4 games for each system. And with my Wii U only getting played once and a while now and only having two games for it, I’ve kind of made the decision a while back to just restore to doing what I’m doing and watch other people play the games instead. Now, if it’s a game that I really, really, really want that I could get for something like PC or Steam for cheap, that might be a bit different, but still…
But anyways, I don’t think it’s particularly right for a developer or a creative team to take down a Let’s Play video of someone playing their game and claiming it as it will hurt their sales and will hurt their overall reputation in the end, because even if they do stop that one said individual another said individual will come out of the woodwork later on and upload more footage of it. It’s inevitable with the Internet.
Besides, it’s free advertising and it also gives other curious onlookers a chance to see if they themselves would be interested in it later. And the more people that see it, especially from a relativity famous Youtuber, the more people will probably buy it. I mean, yeah, you’re still going to get a couple of idiots, like me, who would probably still prefer to watch someone else play it rather than play it and buy it themselves, but those guys are still a dime in a dozen and really should be nothing to worry about. Besides, when you’re an indie developer struggling to make it in this cruel business, you should be happy that someone is even bothering with your junk.
And besides, like Liberty said: “If I bought and paid for the game already, why can’t I share the experience with everyone else here and get them to maybe buy it?” If anything, those guys should be happy with people like that, working for them for free and all.
Developers need to chill out a little bit. And besides, I think when someone decides to rather watch someone else play the game over buying it themselves, or perhaps they want to check out certain spoilers, they have to realize that they are the ones spoiling it for themselves, not the other way around. So if anyone’s to blame, it should be them.
Anyways, this might be a bit weird to some, but I actually AM one of those types of people (although rare as shit) who do prefer to watch Let’s Play videos rather than playing the actual game myself. I know, I know, it’s a bit weird and all – but here me out:
As I’ve gotten older and have had less time to play a lot of commercial games nowadays with my job and all and with money being as tight as shit these days (f**k you, Vancouver, and your high cost of living - ughhh), in order to continue and follow some of my favorite video game franchises as a kid I’ve resorted to watch other people play the games for me. Not only can I still follow along with what’s going on in regards to the plot and all, but I also to get to kind of experience the game a little bit and save some money along the way. Besides, the last couple of home consoles that I’ve owned, like the Wii and the Xbox 360, mainly just sat there and I only bought, like, 4 games for each system. And with my Wii U only getting played once and a while now and only having two games for it, I’ve kind of made the decision a while back to just restore to doing what I’m doing and watch other people play the games instead. Now, if it’s a game that I really, really, really want that I could get for something like PC or Steam for cheap, that might be a bit different, but still…
But anyways, I don’t think it’s particularly right for a developer or a creative team to take down a Let’s Play video of someone playing their game and claiming it as it will hurt their sales and will hurt their overall reputation in the end, because even if they do stop that one said individual another said individual will come out of the woodwork later on and upload more footage of it. It’s inevitable with the Internet.
Besides, it’s free advertising and it also gives other curious onlookers a chance to see if they themselves would be interested in it later. And the more people that see it, especially from a relativity famous Youtuber, the more people will probably buy it. I mean, yeah, you’re still going to get a couple of idiots, like me, who would probably still prefer to watch someone else play it rather than play it and buy it themselves, but those guys are still a dime in a dozen and really should be nothing to worry about. Besides, when you’re an indie developer struggling to make it in this cruel business, you should be happy that someone is even bothering with your junk.
And besides, like Liberty said: “If I bought and paid for the game already, why can’t I share the experience with everyone else here and get them to maybe buy it?” If anything, those guys should be happy with people like that, working for them for free and all.
Developers need to chill out a little bit. And besides, I think when someone decides to rather watch someone else play the game over buying it themselves, or perhaps they want to check out certain spoilers, they have to realize that they are the ones spoiling it for themselves, not the other way around. So if anyone’s to blame, it should be them.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
Most of my experience with video games- modern and otherwise- has been via watching someone else play, because I am bad at video games but I love them. :B
(Also I am not really capable of buying and playing every game I'm moderately interested in due to a lack of funds and time, but mostly it's just that I suck)
(Also I am not really capable of buying and playing every game I'm moderately interested in due to a lack of funds and time, but mostly it's just that I suck)
Personally I'm all over with LPs including being the horrible person who decided to watch a LP of a game instead of buying it*. Personally I'm a big fan of LPs, streams, and other game related videos on the internet with the usual caveat of if it's shit then it's shit. I've found new games I never heard of through them (hello Battleblock Theater!), or simply supporting games that I enjoyed a LP of but would never play (hi Deadly Premonition!), or see things in games I never knew or wanted to grind out (insert anything by Cavia here). It's also a great place to see how bad some games that might've caught my eye are (lol rogue galaxy). A LP can also be a great place to talk about a game where a dedicated thread for it would just wither and die where people who never played a game can share their first time experiences or old veterans that played a game too much can spiel over mechanics, the narrative, or even what happened behind the scenes. Hell a LP even got the devs to release an updated version playable on modern computers!
Personally I'm good with the current position of LPs and other gaming videos. There'll always be a ton of trash out there that could use a good kicking but there's a lot of good too. I think there's room to give the rights holder more respect in some cases. I know SomethingAwful's LP board used to have a three month rule from a game's release to when the first LP can come up to cut out the 'me first' LPers but the deluge of early access games and fenangling around it ended up killing that.
All this is from a de facto standpoint. I ain't got any insightful comment on the de jure side of things.
* It was Bloodborne. The first time I watched somebody stream it they killed Rom with all the changes that come with it which piqued my interest. I don't have a PS4 and its catalog isn't strong enough to get me to buy it and a good LP'er was doing a blind playthrough so I watched that instead and that made me lose interest in playing it because I'm not interested in dealing with BB's shit.
e: I even watch Long Plays from time to time. Sometimes I wanted to show somebody part of a game (or vice versa), or remember something from an old game I played, or use it as some research on a game and I don't want some dumb mouthbreather getting in the way.
Personally I'm good with the current position of LPs and other gaming videos. There'll always be a ton of trash out there that could use a good kicking but there's a lot of good too. I think there's room to give the rights holder more respect in some cases. I know SomethingAwful's LP board used to have a three month rule from a game's release to when the first LP can come up to cut out the 'me first' LPers but the deluge of early access games and fenangling around it ended up killing that.
All this is from a de facto standpoint. I ain't got any insightful comment on the de jure side of things.
* It was Bloodborne. The first time I watched somebody stream it they killed Rom with all the changes that come with it which piqued my interest. I don't have a PS4 and its catalog isn't strong enough to get me to buy it and a good LP'er was doing a blind playthrough so I watched that instead and that made me lose interest in playing it because I'm not interested in dealing with BB's shit.
e: I even watch Long Plays from time to time. Sometimes I wanted to show somebody part of a game (or vice versa), or remember something from an old game I played, or use it as some research on a game and I don't want some dumb mouthbreather getting in the way.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
author=GreatRedSpirit
* It was Bloodborne. The first time I watched somebody stream it they killed Rom with all the changes that come with it which piqued my interest. I don't have a PS4 and its catalog isn't strong enough to get me to buy it and a good LP'er was doing a blind playthrough so I watched that instead and that made me lose interest in playing it because I'm not interested in dealing with BB's shit.
IDK if it really counts if you watched the LP instead of buying the game because you'd also have to buy an entire new console.
e: I even watch Long Plays from time to time. Sometimes I wanted to show somebody part of a game (or vice versa), or remember something from an old game I played, or use it as some research on a game and I don't want some dumb mouthbreather getting in the way.
I really love Long Plays for old NES/SNES stuff, either to enjoy games I can't play well (and/or concentrate on the graphics and layout without being distracted by not dying) or to just get a nostalgia fix with that sweet sweet bleepy bloopy sound. ^_____^
I love LPs. It's an awesome ability to legally experience a game without having to spend a dime on it. I probably consume most games that way nowadays. If developers cared about not letting people consume their work for free, they should disallow it.
author=Sooz
IDK if it really counts if you watched the LP instead of buying the game because you'd also have to buy an entire new console.
I think Bloodborne being one of the intended killer launch apps to get people to buy PS4s changes the console equation a bit. I can't say how much but it's still getting into the "somebody paid stacks of cash to try and generate revenue from it but an LP (potentially) took that away" debate.
Now had Sega localized Yakuza Inshin to English for the PS4 launch well maybe I wouldn't be saying anything at all Sega!
Sooz
I really love Long Plays for old NES/SNES stuff, either to enjoy games I can't play well (and/or concentrate on the graphics and layout without being distracted by not dying) or to just get a nostalgia fix with that sweet sweet bleepy bloopy sound. ^_____^
I watched a Longplay of the King's Quest series up to 6 last month. I'm a total nostalgia nerd for seeing them in action again but their design is so bad that I'd never actually want to play them again!
Games that don't play well is another argument for LPs and the sort. Not everything is playable on current hardware or emulators, nor have games aged very well that you'd want to fight horrible ancient UIs and game design & pacing. I'm reading a Star Ocean 3 LP atm and there is a laundry list of things wrong with it and it's great seeing the game now instead of back when it came out and I was hyped for the dumb thing and I had a poster and everything. I probably would've quit an hour in if I had to deal with the shit that game throws.
I also prefer to watch games rather than play them. (Not Let's Plays though, because I am 35 years old and the prospect of hearing someone crack jokes or babble like a brook over a video game I'm trying to watch is infuriating.)
I am wholeheartedly behind a developer controlling its content. It's their choice.
I think that this is especially true for games which are more like a novel than a game. If someone's playing Final Fantasy III with all black mages on YouTube and I see that, then want to play it my way, all dragoons or whatever I fancy, I'm gonna buy it. (And I did, in fact.) Visual novel games don't have this level of interactivity.
I am wholeheartedly behind a developer controlling its content. It's their choice.
I think that this is especially true for games which are more like a novel than a game. If someone's playing Final Fantasy III with all black mages on YouTube and I see that, then want to play it my way, all dragoons or whatever I fancy, I'm gonna buy it. (And I did, in fact.) Visual novel games don't have this level of interactivity.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I thought of a good analogy for Let's Plays. People have compared them to wathcing Mystery Science Theater 3000, where you get the movie plus additional value, but that's not accurate. They're actually like watching the Food Network.
You can watch someone make and eat and talk about food, and it's enjoyable to some people. But it's absurd to suggest that featuring a restaraunt on the food network is preventing people from actually visiting that restaraunt. Imagine a restaraunt owner suing the Food Network saying "potential customers who watch this show can see what the food looks like, and get the basic idea of what it would taste like, so now they don't need to actually buy it." The appearance of food is exactly like the appearance of a game - it's part of what you created, sure, but it's such a small part of the experience you're actually getting when you play.
The Food Network isn't selling the same product as your restaraunt is, and the Game Grumps aren't selling the same product as your game studio is.
If anything, watching it just makes me hungry.
You can watch someone make and eat and talk about food, and it's enjoyable to some people. But it's absurd to suggest that featuring a restaraunt on the food network is preventing people from actually visiting that restaraunt. Imagine a restaraunt owner suing the Food Network saying "potential customers who watch this show can see what the food looks like, and get the basic idea of what it would taste like, so now they don't need to actually buy it." The appearance of food is exactly like the appearance of a game - it's part of what you created, sure, but it's such a small part of the experience you're actually getting when you play.
The Food Network isn't selling the same product as your restaraunt is, and the Game Grumps aren't selling the same product as your game studio is.
If anything, watching it just makes me hungry.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
It's a good analogy, but it does still kind of break down in terms of strictly linear narrative games with minimal gameplay, since they're often heavily reliant on the narrative and only the narrative to carry a player's interest.
Granted, I am not inclined to limit LPs in such cases, since I tend to feel that, if a game creator is not at least somewhat focused on making the game replayable and/or doing something new with the narrative that focuses on how the interactivity affects things, they're probably better off doing more traditional material. And/or giving it away or selling it at a major markdown. (I mean, that's why Virtual Grappi is not a commercial game despite the buttloads of work that went into it; there's zero replay value.)
Granted, I am not inclined to limit LPs in such cases, since I tend to feel that, if a game creator is not at least somewhat focused on making the game replayable and/or doing something new with the narrative that focuses on how the interactivity affects things, they're probably better off doing more traditional material. And/or giving it away or selling it at a major markdown. (I mean, that's why Virtual Grappi is not a commercial game despite the buttloads of work that went into it; there's zero replay value.)
There should be a food channel show where they make viewer submitted recipes / recipes found on the internet and try them out.
The monday edition of the show should be finding what they think is the worst recipe and trying it out.
Really I just want
The monday edition of the show should be finding what they think is the worst recipe and trying it out.
Really I just want
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
You can get the listening experience of that here :3
Kindredz
7
I can see his point...but another side to people watching Let's Play videos is that they can't actually afford to play a lot of the games that they want. That's a reason that some watchers probably wouldn't admit to but it's there. If that wasn't the case then game piracy wouldn't be as big as it is.
That's why I personally committed to not releasing any freemium content and trying my best to keep non-free apps below $5, if possible. It's rough out there and people have enough to deal with in this economy without having to give an arm and a leg for a game or experience to escape into.
That's why I personally committed to not releasing any freemium content and trying my best to keep non-free apps below $5, if possible. It's rough out there and people have enough to deal with in this economy without having to give an arm and a leg for a game or experience to escape into.
author=Kindredz
I can see his point...but another side to people watching Let's Play videos is that they can't actually afford to play a lot of the games that they want. That's a reason that some watchers probably wouldn't admit to but it's there. If that wasn't the case then game piracy wouldn't be as big as it is.
That's why I personally committed to not releasing any freemium content and trying my best to keep non-free apps below $5, if possible. It's rough out there and people have enough to deal with in this economy without having to give an arm and a leg for a game or experience to escape into.
People can't afford games that cost well under $20 bucks? So many indie games are less than half the going rate for the average handheld console game. If anyone complains about price then, it's nothing but sheer entitlement.
Maybe I'm a minority but if I torrent or pirate a movie or show and watch it and like it, I'm one of those weird people that go out and buy that thing. For one I like having a physical copy of something I like. Two, my TV is waay bigger than my computer screen and has better audio. And three, if I like something, I support it.
So. that's for movies and TV shows.
Games? I think I already said this and agreed with Sooz, but I don't watch LPs and then feel that I don't have to play the game because I viewed through someone else's eyes. Sure, I'll watch these kinds of videos if I want to make sure I want to buy it or not, but usually I just buy games i think I will like. Then bitch about it later if I didn't end up liking it.
If most AAA games weren't 60 bucks these days I probably would buy A LOT more and play bigger hits more regularly. Fallout 4 was a biggie for me and I stayed away from the hype for the most part. The mere mention of it coming out was hype enough for me to want to try it. I was ultimately disappointed with the experience to how much they changed and took out. Or the shitty systems they implemented over perfectly fine and fun existing systems.
Annyways, I can see how this can be bad for some games but mostly LPs of AAA games almost isn't even needed for very popular games. It's cool if people wanna see those games played but I think it has a bigger effect on indie games. Whether it helps them get seen or if it MIGHT possibly lose them sales, which I think it would help gain sales rather than lose them.
Also DLCs suck and are stupid and ruin games these days, but that's really neither here nor there.
So. that's for movies and TV shows.
Games? I think I already said this and agreed with Sooz, but I don't watch LPs and then feel that I don't have to play the game because I viewed through someone else's eyes. Sure, I'll watch these kinds of videos if I want to make sure I want to buy it or not, but usually I just buy games i think I will like. Then bitch about it later if I didn't end up liking it.
If most AAA games weren't 60 bucks these days I probably would buy A LOT more and play bigger hits more regularly. Fallout 4 was a biggie for me and I stayed away from the hype for the most part. The mere mention of it coming out was hype enough for me to want to try it. I was ultimately disappointed with the experience to how much they changed and took out. Or the shitty systems they implemented over perfectly fine and fun existing systems.
Annyways, I can see how this can be bad for some games but mostly LPs of AAA games almost isn't even needed for very popular games. It's cool if people wanna see those games played but I think it has a bigger effect on indie games. Whether it helps them get seen or if it MIGHT possibly lose them sales, which I think it would help gain sales rather than lose them.
Also DLCs suck and are stupid and ruin games these days, but that's really neither here nor there.
author=Ratty524Got there before I finished! But yeah, that's why I like indie games or even older great titles I haven't played yet. I could be perfectly content with backtracking into older games rather than spending on new games and new consoles every few years. I would honestly enjoy them more, I think. (the old games)
People can't afford games that cost well under $20 bucks? So many indie games are less than half the going rate for the average handheld console game. If anyone complains about price then, it's nothing but sheer entitlement.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
author=Kindredz
If that wasn't the case then game piracy wouldn't be as big as it is.
Honestly, I don't think piracy is nearly as rampant as people believe. It's certainly a thing, but given that you have to know how to seek pirated stuff out, and the fact that all the entertainment industries haven't crashed yet, I think people are a lot more willing to go along with the "I give you money, you give me fun" exchange. (ETA: Yeah, like Infection said, I've pirated shit and then gone on to obtain it legit because it owned and I want more stuff that owns to exist.)
At least, assuming the fun is both easily accessible and actually fun. It seems to me that "Piracy is killing my sales!" is the motto for people who just didn't make a thing with broad appeal. As stated in previous posts, TDC is about a family dealing with the slow, agonizing death of a baby. That's not exactly on par with "fight big, cool monsters" or "raise adorable doodz" or "pretend to date a variety of attractive people." Heck, it's not even there with "stack a bunch of falling objects neatly."
