WHY AREN'T YOU FUCKERS IN IRC?

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FUCKERS

author=Sooz
"I need to get someone to authorize me" vs. "I need to figure out a client, then figure out how to use a thing that's not terribly intuitive"

Single temporary problem vs. STEEP ASS LEARNING CURVE

I mean I like neither of them but Slack is far and away the clear winner in the "user friendliness" contest.

I'm just going to quote myself from the RMN IRC channel:

<King_Arthur> Already in that topic I can see people going IRC has "a steep learning curve".
<King_Arthur> We're a collection of god damn game developers and they can't into CLI apparently.

The biggest complaint that IRC receives is about its UI not being user friendly. What most of the complainers actually mean is that they can't (and won't) use command-line interfaces. And you know what? If you're just a run-of-the-mill gamer or office worker or whatever who doesn't have any in-depth experience with computers then maybe you have a point. IRC has always catered to the geeks and engineers, the intellectuals and the professionals.

But remember, RMN is a collection of game developers, we are geeks and engineers, intellectuals and professionals. It's kind of ridiculous to me that game developers find IRC difficult or impossible to use. If you are working with programming and developing software, command-line interfaces should be familiar and second nature to you.

author=Yellow Magic
Note:
(1) Multiple channels of communication within one Slack group. Gamedev stuff goes in the gamedev channels so it doesn't get mixed up with the more general chatter.
(2) Quick feedback in the #screenshot channel - people don't have to click on the image URL to see the full thing. Also, that image thumbnail animates!

I'll brainstorm other ways of making Slack more productive for game developers when I am not stupidly busy with stupid shit.

Multiple channels is actually a fundamental part of IRC. Most of us don't see it that way because we advertise a specific channel as "our IRC", but we can easily register multiple channels and divide discussion throughout them appropriately just like Slack. If RMN were to run its own IRC server like WIP mentioned earlier, this would be even easier and intuitive since we wouldn't have to share a public IRC server network like we do now on SynIRC.

EDIT: In fact, I'm pretty sure Gaming World used to run its own IRC server (Whahay?) where they had multiple channels for different topics of discussion.

author=WIP
I think a good question here is: what's the role of real-time chat vs. a forum vs. whatever else? You can just as easily see a history of screenshots posted via the forum thread. No need for Slack's (fleeting) message history. But you do lose that instant-ness. That's worth something. But do you create multiple paths to accomplish the same thing?

The only reason why I ever log into Slack, IRC, the old Skype group chat before it died, or any of the other chat rooms we've had is because I feel like I'm missing out on game design discussions that people I know are having with each-other. I would prefer that none of these things existed and all the discussions were in one place (here).

author=KingArthur
Nothing about this is intuitive. The excuse that we aren't actually, really programming doesn't fly anymore. If you can develop software you should have no problems understanding and using a CLI.

Dude most people on this site don't know wtf a CLI is.

Edit: And here's the answer - I use Slack because I like it a whole lot more than IRC. IRC is boring. Slack is cool and quick and I like the way everything is presented. Everything is a lot quicker and easier to maintain. We have about 10 channels running alongside each other, it notifies you when new posts are made, it notifies when people ping you, it does all this without you having to tell it to do that to you. Basically... it automates tasks that we want to do, better than IRC does. Which is what software is made to do - make cool stuff easier to do.

I think WIP underestimates how much we use all the functions of Slack. We have integrated with another app for our #workingon channel. We're using group chats for our group game jams, sharing files easily across the server, and built-in pastebin type functionality. Embedded images and videos make accessing these things more streamlined. I'm sounding like a fricking Slack advertisement but honestly the new wave of our community is built on collaboration, so why not use a collaboration tool?

author=Sooz
"Capacity for" does not mean that everyone here uses that shit. Your original point was "everyone here is making gams, so why do they have trouble with basic coding stuff?" and mine was, "We are primarily using a pretty basic engine that doesn't require coding knowledge, so obv. a lot of us aren't actual codebrains."

Again, congrats on finding IRC not difficult to deal with, but yours is NOT the common experience here, as evidenced by the fact that everyone would much rather hang out on the platform that makes sense to the plebians.

I think there is a legitimate argument of the benefit of not appealing to the lowest common denominator.

author=Sooz
"Capacity for" does not mean that everyone here uses that shit. Your original point was "everyone here is making gams, so why do they have trouble with basic coding stuff?" and mine was, "We are primarily using a pretty basic engine that doesn't require coding knowledge, so obv. a lot of us aren't actual codebrains."

Again, congrats on finding IRC not difficult to deal with, but yours is NOT the common experience here, as evidenced by the fact that everyone would much rather hang out on the platform that makes sense to the plebians.

SynIRC is also home to #anidb, an IRC channel for AniDB which is a database and community for all things anime. That channel has 109 people right now, give or take a couple bots. Over on the Rizon IRC network, the vast majority of channels there are filled with hundreds of thousands of people who otherwise have no experience or skill with computers.

Now think about that, ordinary anime fans have the skill and wit to use IRC in droves, proving that it is not a hard tool to learn and use. That IRC is apparently too hard for us game developers is, like I said before, ridiculous. IRC is so "hard" that the lowest common denominator of people can use it, why are we of all people claiming that IRC is hard to use?

author=CashmereCat
Dude most people on this site don't know wtf a CLI is.

I would say that is a problem that needs addressing. =P

If the argument was "IRC doesn't satisfy our needs" like in your case then I would understand, pick the right tool for the job, but that's not what I'm hearing most of the time including in this topic. There's a major difference between "we can't into IRC" and "IRC can't into us", and hearing the former is frustrating given the demographic that we are. =V

This discussion reads more heated than it should be.

I mean, Slack and irc are not mutually exclusive. Is there even any point to arguing which is better? Just let people use the tool they prefer, or both if they choose to.

author=KingArthur
There's a major difference between "we can't into IRC" and "IRC can't into us", and hearing the former is frustrating given the demographic that we are. =V

I think it's moreso "I don't want to put in the effort to understand" than "I wouldn't understand even if I tried." And it's completely valid to choose something because it's easier and takes less effort.

What I really like about IRC is that it doesn't require you to sign up for anything, and it's more of an immediate conversation than posting on a forum, for example. But the few times I've been on the RMN IRC channel more or less recently, there was simply nothing happening there. It's a bit of a vicious cycle, really: If there were more activity on IRC, I'd probably be more active on IRC as well. But staring at a virtual silence just makes me feel extremely awkward, so unfortunately I don't go there very often.