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[MAFIA] PURGATORY: A MAFIA GAME
Posts
psy_wombats
13315
psy_wombats
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CloseSorry to not post until this late, I didn't check in because I figured the game would be over with two dropouts and Gourd confessing to be scum but if Aneko and Huni were both town then guess it's still game.
Reading back:
It makes sense to me if Gourd figured he was dead meat and might as well distance from Cap. But then Cap realized that because Aneko and Huni were noshows, he could just not vote Gourd and save him. He even said at one point he's definitely not voting Gourd. I'm not 100% sold on Cap as Gourd's partner, to be clear though.
He would do it if he was scum doing damage control on your mistake, trying to bus you because it was now extremely obvious you were scum. This isn't @Gourd but for everyone else:
Note how Piano's post comes between Gourd's and Cap's. Demon sees the first modnote and posts aftergame type stuff at Aneko and Hunibear. Gourd sees the aftergame stuff and shows up to say "phew." Piano sees that Gourd just outed himself and posts a reminder that "hey the game isn't over, don't do that!!", and then Cap sees this and realizes something has to be done to salvage the game. I saw Gourd's confession as well, before EOD and just figured the game was over because one scum was about to be ejected and the other just confessed, so my instinct wasn't to rush and change my vote. Did anyone else see that post from Gourd before the day ended?
Also not @Gourd in particular, but regardless of whether the confession is sincere, the "is it too early" is always going to be a joke. If Gourd legitimately wanted to know if it was too early, as scum or town, he would've posted "so is the game over?" not "is the game over? also I'm scum xd"
It's not WIFOM for two reasons. First, Gourd didn't think his action would be analyzed, because he thought the game was over. Second, while scum could post it as a sincere confession or as a Frogge-style "hey guys look I'm scum, scum wouldn't say this right~?" there's no reason town to post it outside of a joke, and it's not a joke town would make if they thought reasonable people would take them seriously.
I don't think this will be helpful, check last game -- scum absolutely love to bus each other.
Reading back:
author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
with those two flipping town, I am getting slightly paranoid about psy. a scumteam of gourd/cap doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
It makes sense to me if Gourd figured he was dead meat and might as well distance from Cap. But then Cap realized that because Aneko and Huni were noshows, he could just not vote Gourd and save him. He even said at one point he's definitely not voting Gourd. I'm not 100% sold on Cap as Gourd's partner, to be clear though.
author=Gourd_Clae
No, I was joking. The way you jumped on me after that has made me uncomfortable with voting for you now though. There was literally no reason for you to do that if you were scum
He would do it if he was scum doing damage control on your mistake, trying to bus you because it was now extremely obvious you were scum. This isn't @Gourd but for everyone else:
Note how Piano's post comes between Gourd's and Cap's. Demon sees the first modnote and posts aftergame type stuff at Aneko and Hunibear. Gourd sees the aftergame stuff and shows up to say "phew." Piano sees that Gourd just outed himself and posts a reminder that "hey the game isn't over, don't do that!!", and then Cap sees this and realizes something has to be done to salvage the game. I saw Gourd's confession as well, before EOD and just figured the game was over because one scum was about to be ejected and the other just confessed, so my instinct wasn't to rush and change my vote. Did anyone else see that post from Gourd before the day ended?
author=Gourd_Clae
@demon why... why would I actually ask if it was too early to claim I was scum
if I had any doubt it was too early then I would definitely not say I was scum
Also not @Gourd in particular, but regardless of whether the confession is sincere, the "is it too early" is always going to be a joke. If Gourd legitimately wanted to know if it was too early, as scum or town, he would've posted "so is the game over?" not "is the game over? also I'm scum xd"
author=Jeroen_Sol
A sincere scumclaim? I don't think any scum would claim scum while there is still a chance the game doesn't get cancelled. At most, it could be a scumploy to get people to think scum wouldn't scumclaim, but that's a WIFOM.
It's not WIFOM for two reasons. First, Gourd didn't think his action would be analyzed, because he thought the game was over. Second, while scum could post it as a sincere confession or as a Frogge-style "hey guys look I'm scum, scum wouldn't say this right~?" there's no reason town to post it outside of a joke, and it's not a joke town would make if they thought reasonable people would take them seriously.
author=LockeZ
I think it would be useful to look for pairs of people who have not attacked each-other.
I don't think this will be helpful, check last game -- scum absolutely love to bus each other.
psy_wombats
13315
Also, as I don't think anyone's explicitly noted it, there was no nightkill, leaving us at 6 players. That's almost certainly an intentional move by scum rather than charity by the mod because it means we have 1 extra suspect, still MYLO vs LYLO. (what scum would intentionally do this is another thing). While I'm fairly convinced of scum-Gourd, I think we shouldn't kill each other today and force scum to kill someone first, because at this point I'm not 100% convinced of anyone's towniness.
There's also almost no way I vote anyone but Gourd, if it comes to it, because even if it's 50/50 Gourd is scum, that means 50% of the time I have to live in a world where Gourd literally confessed to being scum and still won.
There's also almost no way I vote anyone but Gourd, if it comes to it, because even if it's 50/50 Gourd is scum, that means 50% of the time I have to live in a world where Gourd literally confessed to being scum and still won.
psy_wombats
13315
author=psy_wombats
He would do it if he was scum doing damage control on your mistake, trying to bus you because it was now extremely obvious you were scum.
^ also, note here it's /Gourd/ that comes out and says "Cap can't be scum because he voted to kill me!"
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
...It would be a pretty stupid mistake to make since not even the current day phase was over, but I guess stupid and impossible aren't the same thing.
People make stupid mistakes all the time. I mean, I remember in Liberty's anime waifu game, I found out someone was scum just because he thought the moderator had probably already told me, and so he straight up told me he was scum.
If one of the people in the Cave vs. Gourd argument was actually scum, and made the mistake of continuing the argument for five pages because they were just having fun, instead of realizing that they should redirect the thread's attention to someone else, Gourd would certainly be the more likely one to make that mistake, as opposed to Cavedog. He has less experience with Mafia; I think he's probably only played on RMN.
I guess that's as good a reason to lynch someone as anything.
#lynch Gourd_Clae
People make stupid mistakes all the time. I mean, I remember in Liberty's anime waifu game, I found out someone was scum just because he thought the moderator had probably already told me, and so he straight up told me he was scum.
If one of the people in the Cave vs. Gourd argument was actually scum, and made the mistake of continuing the argument for five pages because they were just having fun, instead of realizing that they should redirect the thread's attention to someone else, Gourd would certainly be the more likely one to make that mistake, as opposed to Cavedog. He has less experience with Mafia; I think he's probably only played on RMN.
I guess that's as good a reason to lynch someone as anything.
#lynch Gourd_Clae
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=psy_wombatsThis is hard logic to argue with right here. Though it's also exactly the kind of opportunity you would seize if you were scum. So there's that.
There's also almost no way I vote anyone but Gourd, if it comes to it, because even if it's 50/50 Gourd is scum, that means 50% of the time I have to live in a world where Gourd literally confessed to being scum and still won.
Part of me actually still thinks you're a good scum candidate, maybe even a more likely one than gourd, but part of me is like "Yeah I'd rather lose to psy than gourd right now."
demonlord5000
680
Alright, seems everyone has posted now. The reason I was trying to stir the votes toward gourd with that last post was two pronged. The first reason is that confession of his came at a time when we thought the game was over just like psy said. The second reason is I wanted to see how easily that vote could be pushed.
Right now I'm getting that only psy seems to want to vote in that direction while everyone else seems to be reconsidering. I really don't think what gourd did was a town ploy given people were already suspicious of him, and that timing of what he said. In this scenario, I wouldn't want to not vote gourd either.
The only real benefit I can see from forcing scum to nightkill, is if our scumteam turned out to be not under suspicion themselves, forcing them to choose someone who is under suspicion. As of now, I'm looking at gourd/cap personally. I can't say I've noticed any teamwork between them, but cap was pretty quick to change his mind today after switching his vote. That could change if we let a nightkill go through.
Right now I'm getting that only psy seems to want to vote in that direction while everyone else seems to be reconsidering. I really don't think what gourd did was a town ploy given people were already suspicious of him, and that timing of what he said. In this scenario, I wouldn't want to not vote gourd either.
The only real benefit I can see from forcing scum to nightkill, is if our scumteam turned out to be not under suspicion themselves, forcing them to choose someone who is under suspicion. As of now, I'm looking at gourd/cap personally. I can't say I've noticed any teamwork between them, but cap was pretty quick to change his mind today after switching his vote. That could change if we let a nightkill go through.
demonlord5000
680
Ninja'd by lockez if anyone is wondering why I didn't include him as part of the vote gourd team.
demonlord5000
680
Not really relevant to scum hunting, but read below for a confirmation on what lockez said about stupid mistakes.
That might have been me in that past game lockez. It was a power I didn't understand that put us in the same chat room (where I used my name instead of making up an alt), and I was much newer to mafia then than I am now. I tried to escape relying on the fact that you noticed I wasn't typing the same in that other room. It's a mistake I haven't forgotten, and intend to never make again. Doesn't stop me from making different mistakes all the time in mafia though.
@cave: I have. Sometimes I'll have two tabs of the game up when it is more active so I can check and see what's been posted before hitting submit.
Anyways, if I was forced to make a vote today, it would be gourd. I wouldn't care if I lost to scum playing well either, but I'd rather not lose to a bad claim because we thought the game was over.
That might have been me in that past game lockez. It was a power I didn't understand that put us in the same chat room (where I used my name instead of making up an alt), and I was much newer to mafia then than I am now. I tried to escape relying on the fact that you noticed I wasn't typing the same in that other room. It's a mistake I haven't forgotten, and intend to never make again. Doesn't stop me from making different mistakes all the time in mafia though.
@cave: I have. Sometimes I'll have two tabs of the game up when it is more active so I can check and see what's been posted before hitting submit.
Anyways, if I was forced to make a vote today, it would be gourd. I wouldn't care if I lost to scum playing well either, but I'd rather not lose to a bad claim because we thought the game was over.
i just realized most of this big post is pointless because I don't want scum to know who I think is most town so I'm putting it in a txt file if I die.
I looked back at the previous game thread and gourd doesn't seem nearly as defensive there when he's getting mislynched as town with bigger consequences when town is mislynched.
the incredible bickering between and muffle and lockez makes me think it's unlikely that this is a team. i would be thunderstruck if lockez/muffle concocted that whole angry exchange as an act. muffle and gourd too but the feeling isn't nearly as strong there.
I don't really want to try to no hang unless piano comes out and says that scum will be forced to kill because, without a hammer, if they don't, we will have to wait through an entire dayphase again.
I looked back at the previous game thread and gourd doesn't seem nearly as defensive there when he's getting mislynched as town with bigger consequences when town is mislynched.
the incredible bickering between and muffle and lockez makes me think it's unlikely that this is a team. i would be thunderstruck if lockez/muffle concocted that whole angry exchange as an act. muffle and gourd too but the feeling isn't nearly as strong there.
I don't really want to try to no hang unless piano comes out and says that scum will be forced to kill because, without a hammer, if they don't, we will have to wait through an entire dayphase again.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACKI feel like saying this almost an hour after his other post where he mentioned accidentally deleting a big post is... not something you'd ever bother trying to fake as scum. Or even think of trying to fake. Because it wouldn't occur to most people to take it any more seriously than any other reason for not making a big list. Scum might say "I don't want scum to know who I think is most town so I'm putting it in a txt file if I die," but they wouldn't claim to have written a post and then deleted it by accident and then rewritten it and deleted it again on purpose.
i just realized most of this big post is pointless because I don't want scum to know who I think is most town so I'm putting it in a txt file if I die.
I think this is the towniest sentence Cave has said all day. It's such a minor thing. But I really think he's town now.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I don't know if I explained that logic in any sort of sensical way at all.
author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACKauthor=Gourd_Claethis post is making my gut churn in the other direction
It's not a big deal either way. examining language is fun?? It'd be cool if I was right! I'll see when the game is over.
gourd if you are town you need to re-examine your assumptions from the ground up. i am going to do the same. i found your earlier case on psy unconvincing, and you are wrong about me, and we need all four town votes to be unified to not lose the game here so it's going to be really embarrassing if we're both town. I've said pretty much all I wanted to about you yesterday anyway so I'm going to be looking at the others.
>.< your gut churning in the other direction is making mine do the same. If you're scum you literally would only have to continue saying I am incoherent in order for the day to end with my death.
Alright, I will look at everyone again! Before that, I guess I'd peg LockeZ and psy as scum since they were the only other people I was considering as possible.
I might re-evaluate once I think on it.
author=LockeZ
I will agree with the people who say that analyzing language patterns is really fucking stupid.
Actually I don't know if anyone came right out and said that yet. So I'll do it.
Analyzing language patterns is really fucking stupid.
author=Jeroen_Sol
Judging by how well I fared last game, yeah.
Analyzing language patterns is really fucking stupid.
you two XD
author=psy_wombatsauthor=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
with those two flipping town, I am getting slightly paranoid about psy. a scumteam of gourd/cap doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
It makes sense to me if Gourd figured he was dead meat and might as well distance from Cap. But then Cap realized that because Aneko and Huni were noshows, he could just not vote Gourd and save him. He even said at one point he's definitely not voting Gourd. I'm not 100% sold on Cap as Gourd's partner, to be clear though.
Since I'm town I know that cap was not cleaning up a mistake on my part. A cap/gourd team also doesn't make sense because I left cap vulnerable to being lynched by cave yesterday despite being blatantly more suspicious myself.
I will say that the people trying to lynch me for the scum joke come across as incredibly opportunistic, but I don't think I'll engage with many of the specific arguments since that hasn't gotten me too far.
I'm gonna look back and see who hasn't been fighting/ analyzing voting patterns / general scumhunting and see if I can't find anything off.
demonlord5000
680
Just checking this before I head off for the night. I just wanted to say we also needed all five players to focus the same target on day 2 to hit anyone due to two non-participants. Considering both scum and all three townies needed to focus on a single target, I'm not sure leaving someone vulnerable or not is really a tell given the circumstances.
demonlord5000
680
I'm wrong, It's late and my numbers are off. I didn't account for one player. Same deal though, with two missing people it would not have been easy to get that lynch off. I would need to go back and reread to see just how vulnerable cap was, but I'll save that for tomorrow when I'm more awake.
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3885
This "I don't want to lose to Gourd" train is ringing a million alarm bells in my head.
Something about Psy has felt weird to me all game, though I was never able to put a finger on it, but this I really don't like.
LockeZ as second on the train would usually look worse to me, but his arguments for Muffle and Cave being town feel very legitimate to me.
I have no vote, but here's my hypothesis:
Scumteam is Psy/Cap.
I feel like we should probably make this a basic anti-stalling rule. "A nokill may never follow a nolynch." Obviously if there's a doctor it's possible for nobody to die after a nolynch, but scum may not withhold NK on purpose.
Something about Psy has felt weird to me all game, though I was never able to put a finger on it, but this I really don't like.
LockeZ as second on the train would usually look worse to me, but his arguments for Muffle and Cave being town feel very legitimate to me.
I have no vote, but here's my hypothesis:
Scumteam is Psy/Cap.
author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
I don't really want to try to no hang unless piano comes out and says that scum will be forced to kill because, without a hammer, if they don't, we will have to wait through an entire dayphase again.
I feel like we should probably make this a basic anti-stalling rule. "A nokill may never follow a nolynch." Obviously if there's a doctor it's possible for nobody to die after a nolynch, but scum may not withhold NK on purpose.
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3885
Actually, scumteam could still be Psy/LockeZ, I guess. It doesn't matter if scum-LockeZ townreads two of the remaining town for legitimate reasons, he only needs to mislynch one of them.
But it's mostly Psy who's rubbing me the wrong way.
But it's mostly Psy who's rubbing me the wrong way.
psy_wombats
13315
@LockeZ: that seems kind of null to me, plus I don't know why it would make a difference in cave's posting whether he died tomorrow or not
@Jeroen: My internal logic's like 80% "Gourd is scum," and maybe 20% "if scum-Gourd wins I will die of shame." Don't discard the actual argument I'm making because I'm also explaining the reason for my vote. Even if you discard his literal confession, check this:
This is nonsensical for town-Gourd to post. scum-Cap would totally opportunistically vote against town-Gourd late in the day because if we /had/ killed town yesterday, it'd be game over today. Gourd's trying to spin attacking him now as opportunistic, so why wouldn't this apply to Cap yesterday?
@Jeroen: My internal logic's like 80% "Gourd is scum," and maybe 20% "if scum-Gourd wins I will die of shame." Don't discard the actual argument I'm making because I'm also explaining the reason for my vote. Even if you discard his literal confession, check this:
author=Gourd_Clae
No, I was joking. The way you jumped on me after that has made me uncomfortable with voting for you now though. There was literally no reason for you to do that if you were scum
This is nonsensical for town-Gourd to post. scum-Cap would totally opportunistically vote against town-Gourd late in the day because if we /had/ killed town yesterday, it'd be game over today. Gourd's trying to spin attacking him now as opportunistic, so why wouldn't this apply to Cap yesterday?
psy_wombats
13315
and re: the vote count thing yesterday that Demon brought up, that's still valid. There's no possible way scum could die yesterday without bussing, which makes scum-Gourd's vote against scum-Cap only make sense if either Gourd thought he was dead, or Gourd thought Cap was absolutely safe.
That said, there's still that last-minute vote interaction post-confession, so Cap's still my second scumpick. I thought during the night it was one of the lurkers just because not great other options: Gourd and Muffle would fight like that when there wasn't any pressure on either of them, Cave put early pressure on Gourd, and LockeZ has seemed townish and today I don't think scum-LockeZ puts down his vote like that. Would still be interested in Muffle's thoughts on Gourd though.
That said, there's still that last-minute vote interaction post-confession, so Cap's still my second scumpick. I thought during the night it was one of the lurkers just because not great other options: Gourd and Muffle would fight like that when there wasn't any pressure on either of them, Cave put early pressure on Gourd, and LockeZ has seemed townish and today I don't think scum-LockeZ puts down his vote like that. Would still be interested in Muffle's thoughts on Gourd though.
