CENSORSHIP AND SECURITY PARADOXES

author=Red_Nova

Unless, of course, they do something actually ban-worthy, like glorify violence or condone terrorism normally people shouldn't get banned. Uhhhh, this guy doesn't even curse, really. He shows what may or may not be the truth, and what definitely sounds crazy. But... if this goofball gets banned, how long before other people get banned for having opinions?

Didn't Alex Jones try to sell people on the idea that the Sandy Hook shooting was a hoax? Sorry, but "goofball" is not the word I'd use to describe him.

Do you understand that difference between an opinion, which everyone is entitled to, and inciting violence? All of us can say any crazy thing we like in a first world country. You may not like it but there is a vast difference between "I believe every 8 years zombie parasites eat the brains of young infants, and that is how the Green Party started" vs "Let's meet at Podunk, 2am, bring the fisticuffs." And there is a bigger diff between either and net bullying. So he believes it's a hoax, still goofball, not neo-Nazi or other evil person you can call him. Ask real Nazi survivors how that one went.

Just to demonstrate a point, suppose I personally can't stand Liberty (actually kinda like ya, but she's an easy target cuz she gets cute when she's upset). And suppose, true to the GIFT principle, I want to troll you seriously to get rid of you. What do you suppose the best way to do is? Suppose I told everyone coming in "don't go watch Libby's videos, she sings all the time, and she hates on full screen installers, and she doesn't ever understand when ppl are joking." Whoa, suddenly all these ppl don't wanna watch you because they think you're super mean. Would you agree that I'd just seeded bias against someone? Well, that's kinda what happened here. The actual context was not (to my knowledge) that he was being unsympathetic to the murder, but that there were actors in this event helping to spin a narrative. Maybe so, maybe not. I don't care, I'm not a regular watcher of him. But I do understand empathy and what it's like to have your favorite hero taken apart by mobs.

There is no such thing as real news. Not Infowars, not CNN, not WSJ, not that history book, not nothing. Historiography is the study of how history is written. We studied two perspectives of the same event. We studied History of the Peloponnesian War, which went fine until they consulted the oracle (and after that he omits the eventual downfall of his area). Same with the Bible, Kings and Chronicles are same events, two perspectives. So history is out, religion is out, whatabout current events. There must be real news in here somewhere. Lemme tell you two stories.

My dad was a priest who got robbed, they stole the silver and the guy drank the wine. The article title? "Church pastor leads man to drunkeness." Yes, seriously.

I personally participated in fake news. I went into a Target while living in a city, that was understocked. Honestly, I decided it was probably crappy stocking. I came out, some lady asks to interview me. I lie through the whole thing. She wants to talk about the rash of thefts reportedly going on in Target. I'm skeptical having never witnessed anything of the sort, not being a frequent shopper and thus having nothing to compare it to. I bluff and bluff talking about how this theft (again, not witnessed) was so awful, how theft harms the economy, and give her a ton of sound bites to work with. Yes, I'm that amoral.

And no, I don't expect you to believe this. What I do expect you to understand is this crap is bad. Censorship, news spin, all of this is out of control.

And misinformation is not a crime. Otherwise, all weathermen would be in gaol. The key notion of free speech is not that you can't yell fire in a movie theater (they like to quote this in journalism). It's that you should have sense enough to not react until you have verified there is a fire. (And yes, I used a 17th century word, get over it, punks)

Here's an example of a crazy opinion. I don't believe this world is real. This is a crazy notion to most of the population. Ban me for fake news? Or leave me to my crazy notions? I also believe in Shinto-style spirits.
(1) Does your statement harm anyone?
(2) Does anyone benefit financially?
(3) Does it incite violence or terror?

If the answer to all of these is NO, then trying to ban someone for believing something weird is censorship.

To everyone else, yeah I'm a small fry (any other way of looking at it is a delusional). Yes, Infowars or any other site is not immune to hypocrisy. I've seen enough wounded gazelles to know that nobody is blameless. Not my point. My point being that not one of you seemed to understand what it's like to live in a country under censorship (been to China btw, mebbe YOU should get out more). And it's getting that way, because everyone is letting thems latch on to how we are different. When you lose empathy, you lose the key ability to act in a situation that affects you too.

Vietnam, Ethiopia, and the others, what do these have in common? It started with getting rid of the big fish first. It's not just liberals. Some countries started by weeding out those people who were rude and said curse words on tv. Or ppl who said something online that lost their job, when they were off duty. Then suddenly, those people who had a need to shut others down took over. Conservatives, liberals, doesn't matter. What matters is you understand. It affects Everyone. Liberals that threaten the president also get censored. Or rather, arrested. But you don't seem to get "hey maybe these things are serious, regardless of my political views."

Facebook operating your bank. I want you to think about that. Then watch Black Mirror, episode "Nosedive." Peace out, everyone. I'm off to work on games.

author=Dyhalto
bulma, have you actually listened to and paid real attention to Alex Jones/Infowars? I'm ashamed to admit that there was a period in my life where I did religiously, but I eventually outgrew it because I saw his operation for what it is.

Wow, yea ummmm. One, don't be intellectually dishonest. ...But then you took an arrow to then knee, right? Two, I'm not an Aex Jones fan. I like PJW, but I get my news from multiple sources including liberal ones, and have been known to compare and contrast. If people are on lynch mob mentality, the whole net suffers. Why don't you get this?

Shinan, the fact that four or more companies made a coordinated (same day, guys) remove on a single user speaks volumes. No, I don't believe government took this down. Hope I didn't say that. I believe something far worse. Antitrust sorta thing worse. Business alliances, unelected commercial government, worse.

I spent part of yesterday reading about countries with censorship. Did you know, Saudi Arabia only has 25 people on its censorship board? You know how it censors? It has a ready-made load of zealots willing to help out. Exactly how Facebook took down the page, unlike some of the others. People getting used by for/against mentality to do a company's bidding. Were they compensated? Nope. Just a "thank you for doing your part to keep Facebook safe." I think that's the way they phrase it.

People are a self-interested lot. I get that. What I'm trying to impress upon you is that this sort of thing happens to anyone. For stupider reasons. I've been on other webforums, this isn't my first rodeo. Even worse than a conservative, is a liberal who happened to notice they were being used. About five or so years ago, if you asked me, I'd tell you moderate, yet be far closer to liberal where it counts. No, I'm not gonna tell you some long winded story, just that I had trouble voting last election, until I saw how little Clinton and her goons care for LGBT after an actual massacre (Orlando). If someone like Candace Owens is a target and more moderate opposition is a target, you can bet small fries like me are down the list (and so are you by the time you finally get nervous). Mebbe far down, but there's a saying: " First they came for the socialists, but I didn't speak up because I wasn't a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, but I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, but (you get the idea). Then they came for me, but there was no one left to speak for me. "

It's tempting to say, "not my party, and he's a crazy." Yes, he is a crazy. What happens when all the outspoken people of the actual opposition are gone? Oh wait, I don't have to guess, because I have an object lesson in history. Historically, once the blame group is all gone, a person using blame as a motivator has to find a new target. They eventually cannibalize, and choose the less loyal members. Infighting, censorship, and division only stops when people realize there's bigger problems. My original point was to discuss censorship, and what, if anything can be done about it.

So far, all I've heard about is how "my hero" (don't care about the guy, except as a sign of things possibly to come) is bad news, and no honest discussion about the other.