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Posts
gerkrt
488
gerkrt
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CloseSorry but we have different looks at videogames and rpg. I like good historys, but i like more rpg tipical gameplay. I suppose that you are the type of people that hates random encounter and clasic rpg schemes, and you cannot play games like FFI or a roguelike for example, where dont exist any story, all its aleatory. Nowadays a lot of people have this vision, but i just dont like it.
With this in mind all you are talking for me is simply meaninless, i dont care of that things, but i think your game will boring for me, too slow gameplay rithm and narrative, more like a movie/book than a videogame.
I think a game its for playing. And that all must serve to this. The coherence have to the begin with the gameplay, not with the history, because this is a interactive medium.
pd: A key for your game:(if you wnat that people like me can play it) make a scene pass engine, that with a button you can pass through all scenes quick.
With this in mind all you are talking for me is simply meaninless, i dont care of that things, but i think your game will boring for me, too slow gameplay rithm and narrative, more like a movie/book than a videogame.
I think a game its for playing. And that all must serve to this. The coherence have to the begin with the gameplay, not with the history, because this is a interactive medium.
pd: A key for your game:(if you wnat that people like me can play it) make a scene pass engine, that with a button you can pass through all scenes quick.
There's the case where the player has seen a scene before. Playing through the game again, New Game +, or dying on a boss and having to watch the pre-boss fight cinematic again sound like great reasons to skip cutscenes. Then there's people who play the game for its gameplay instead of its story and characters and they play RPGs (and its varients) because other genres aren't as appealing.
Clest
0
author=gerkrt link=topic=2605.msg48538#msg48538 date=1228247734
Sorry but we have different looks at videogames and rpg. I like good historys, but i like more rpg tipical gameplay. I suppose that you are the type of people that hates random encounter and clasic rpg schemes, and you cannot play games like FFI or a roguelike for example, where dont exist any story, all its aleatory. Nowadays a lot of people have this vision, but i just dont like it.
Well yeah, if there is no story, I feel like I am from our world just visiting another world for fun, like a tourist or like the guys in the old Dungeons and Dragons cartoon, and I hate that concept. I want to identify with a character who is born and has lived always in that world, so I can feel more like part of it. This also gives me a long term objective to look forward rather than just getting stronger (this actually works for MMOs since I do have ppl to compete or friends to protect).
author=gerkrt link=topic=2605.msg48538#msg48538 date=1228247734
With this in mind all you are talking for me is simply meaninless, i dont care of that things, but i think your game will boring for me,
May be, may be...
author=gerkrt link=topic=2605.msg48538#msg48538 date=1228247734... but NOT for those reasons :P Not that as I said before, my main reason to play RPGs is to live in the setting and feel like part of it, as books and movies won´t give the freedom of interaction to see everything beyond the story that RPGs do.
too slow gameplay rithm and narrative, more like a movie/book than a videogame.
In fact I am the one who always say that if ppl think story is the center of an RPG, they should read a book instead.
I think our difference lies in what gameplay aspects we valeu more: To me it is all living in the game. I love games like Suikoden where I have to tend to my base/home, recruit other characters, have loots of minigames, have some strategy like battles and a lot of interesting places to visit. I just need however, something like guide so I have an idea of what to see/do first until I am presented to everything the game can offer and then do whatever I feel like. Having a story behind all that also makes me care for the places and characters which won´t happen if I am just an explorer.
author=gerkrt link=topic=2605.msg48538#msg48538 date=1228247734
I think a game its for playing. And that all must serve to this. The coherence have to the begin with the gameplay, not with the history, because this is a interactive medium.
Same opnion as mine, except that coherence is a biggy for exploration, which to me is the essence of RPG gameplay, not battles, not puzzles, those are ways to enhance gameplay experience and can be found in other game genres. Only thing unique in RPGs, regardless of then having a story or just being free roaming, is a wide explorable setting. To that we can have RPGs with no battles, just puzzles or minigames as challeges as much as we have the opposite.
To me development start with setting, then comes gameplay and story, First I build a world, with as much detail as possible, than I try to come up with systems that are both intensily fun AND coherent to the story, which is absolutely fun to do since it gives some interesting challenge. tThen with that set I just create a story and characters.
author=gerkrt link=topic=2605.msg48538#msg48538 date=1228247734Well, most of my cutscenes are at least a bit interactive, or rather, you don´t just sit and watch your hero move and talk and fight on his own, you have to move, talk to x person, then you actually fight someone and things like that, because I too hate long nom-interactive cutscenes.
pd: A key for your game:(if you wnat that people like me can play it) make a scene pass engine, that with a button you can pass through all scenes quick.
However I may have some short animation like scenes here and there, but you can always save after then and they are really short and will not be just "move hero event" but show case interesting animations. If I need anything like that to last about a minute or more I will surely make it skipable for replay issues, but I do hope ppl watch everything first time :)
gerkrt
488
A scene pass engine? If you don't want to play games that have storyline segments and scenes etc. then why are you playing RPGs?
1-There a lot of cRPG that aren't focused in history, existint only for gameplay. A lot clasics where like this, even in 16 bits era. Roguelikes, MMORPG, dungeon crawlers, SaGa, etc.. the first and original were pure gameplay, like any other genre.
2-I play RPG because i like their gameplay, that i feel like and strategic adventure, also i like good historys, but i found good historys in a lot of places and genres nowadays. I think that RPG have more to offer other than scenes, i feel that a lot of people think that RPG are a genre that its no fun without history(and they just go through gameplay to view next scene), but i dont think the same.
3-The scene pass engine have a lot of utilites. If you don't care of history and get boring, you can just go to the action. Also, when you were dead, or replaying a game for improving your skills, the scenes and unforgatable dialogue are boring.
Well yeah, if there is no story, I feel like I am from our world just visiting another world for fun, like a tourist or like the guys in the old Dungeons and Dragons cartoon, and I hate that concept. I want to identify with a character who is born and has lived always in that world, so I can feel more like part of it. This also gives me a long term objective to look forward rather than just getting stronger (this actually works for MMOs since I do have ppl to compete or friends to protect).
[/
gerkrt
488
A scene pass engine? If you don't want to play games that have storyline segments and scenes etc. then why are you playing RPGs?
1-There a lot of cRPG that aren't focused in history. A lot clasics where like this, even in 16 bits era. Roguelikes, MMORPG, dungeon crawlers, SaGa, etc.. the first and original were pure gameplay, like any other genre.
2-I play RPG because i like their gameplay, that i feel like and strategic adventure, also i like good historys, but i found good historys in a lot of places and genres nowadays. I think that RPG have more to offer other than scenes, i feel that a lot of people think that RPG are a genre that its no fun without history(and they just go through gameplay to view next scene), but i dont think the same.
3-The scene pass engine have a lot of utilites. If you don't care of history and get boring, you can just go to the action. Also, when you were dead, or replaying a game for improving your skills, the scenes and unforgatable dialogue are boring.
Well yeah, if there is no story, I feel like I am from our world just visiting another world for fun, like a tourist or like the guys in the old Dungeons and Dragons cartoon, and I hate that concept. I want to identify with a character who is born and has lived always in that world, so I can feel more like part of it. This also gives me a long term objective to look forward rather than just getting stronger (this actually works for MMOs since I do have ppl to compete or friends to protect).
¿And you cant play that just for fun? Well, i say the same, i like good history, i like gameplay-history coherence, i think this things improve the overall game but when im playing usually this things are less important.
... but NOT for those reasons Tongue Not that as I said before, my main reason to play RPGs is to live in the setting and feel like part of it, as books and movies won´t give the freedom of interaction to see everything beyond the story that RPGs do.I have only played Suikoden V, but i see that we dont coincide, i didnt like the game. The first part was the antivideogame, with...? 5-7 hours without a dungeon at all or a battle. Only more and more dialogues. I think the history was good, but lol, i need action. Later, the game feels too slow and the action its incosistent. The gameplay have some good points(strategic formations, character system or the item limitation) but in every battle i fell like the same, and the game its a joke, without a real challengue. I never beat it, 30$ to the trash..xD
In fact I am the one who always say that if ppl think story is the center of an RPG, they should read a book instead.
I think our difference lies in what gameplay aspects we valeu more: To me it is all living in the game. I love games like Suikoden where I have to tend to my base/home, recruit other characters, have loots of minigames, have some strategy like battles and a lot of interesting places to visit. I just need however, something like guide so I have an idea of what to see/do first until I am presented to everything the game can offer and then do whatever I feel like. Having a story behind all that also makes me care for the places and characters which won´t happen if I am just an explorer.
Its a... mmm,
Same opnion as mine, except that coherence is a biggy for exploration, which to me is the essence of RPG gameplay, not battles, not puzzles, those are ways to enhance gameplay experience and can be found in other game genres. Only thing unique in RPGs, regardless of then having a story or just being free roaming, is a wide explorable setting. To that we can have RPGs with no battles, just puzzles or minigames as challeges as much as we have the opposite.
To me development start with setting, then comes gameplay and story, First I build a world, with as much detail as possible, than I try to come up with systems that are both intensily fun AND coherent to the story, which is absolutely fun to do since it gives some interesting challenge. tThen with that set I just create a story and characters.
I have a different idea from RPG. Think in a dungeon crawler in a tower, or even in one map. Its posible, with nothing more. Obviously i wont play it for the history, but if it had special and fun gameplay, yes.
But this game its a RPG, the basic of RPG its its core based on stadistic, the other things are just different styles or influences of gameplay. For example, in your description, i can put a lot of adventures, ¿they are rpg? No. Having a free setting its not the root of RPG, and im talking of Computer RPG (there are important differences from the originals) You wont find a crpg without stadistics.
Well, most of my cutscenes are at least a bit interactive, or rather, you don´t just sit and watch your hero move and talk and fight on his own, you have to move, talk to x person, then you actually fight someone and things like that, because I too hate long nom-interactive cutscenes.
However I may have some short animation like scenes here and there, but you can always save after then and they are really short and will not be just "move hero event" but show case interesting animations. If I need anything like that to last about a minute or more I will surely make it skipable for replay issues, but I do hope ppl watch everything first time Smiley
It's ok...
Clest
0
Yeah, we sure are different players and have different views on things.
Now, care to name some of those adventures? All the adventures I remember playing were side view scrollers with not as much interaction as I would find in an ideal RPG setting.
Regarding statistics, it is something that almost every game has either, even if hidden sometimes. Tactical games are the best example and they aren´t RPGs.
As for Suikoden: Only played 1 and 2 and theither of then start slow, two specially starts during an attack from where you get to fight your way out. But indeed it is not top challenge unless you keep very under level. That and the destiny stuff are probable reasons of why it is not in my top 3 list (which is Phantasy Star IV, Chrono Trigger and FF6).
But this whole "sit and watch" thing from newer games is not my thing really. I like cutscenes as in the top 3 games I mentioned.
Now, care to name some of those adventures? All the adventures I remember playing were side view scrollers with not as much interaction as I would find in an ideal RPG setting.
Regarding statistics, it is something that almost every game has either, even if hidden sometimes. Tactical games are the best example and they aren´t RPGs.
As for Suikoden: Only played 1 and 2 and theither of then start slow, two specially starts during an attack from where you get to fight your way out. But indeed it is not top challenge unless you keep very under level. That and the destiny stuff are probable reasons of why it is not in my top 3 list (which is Phantasy Star IV, Chrono Trigger and FF6).
But this whole "sit and watch" thing from newer games is not my thing really. I like cutscenes as in the top 3 games I mentioned.
AeroGP
64
I've been tossing around a lot of concepts in my head lately that challenge the way older RPGs have run.
One of them is the distinct separation of storyline and combat. Have you played games like Tekken where cutscenes are "unlocked" and saved to be viewed again later? A system similar to this in an RPG, I think, would be an excelent way to attract the type of action-driven players who aren't particularly interested in storyline. During the usual "order of operations" during gameplay, a specific moment is allocated to view cutscenes "unlocked" relating to recent events. The player can choose to view them then, or ignore them and look at them another time via a menu option. For story-driven players, this would feel somewhat awkward, but for other players it would be like watching a series of entertaining short films.
Furthermore, some of the cutscenes - marked with an indicator signifying importance - can have plot-changing dialogue branches that, if the player chooses to act on his/her intentions before stating them in the cutscene, are defaulted to the player's choice (the dialogue branch would pick an answer that suits whatever the player decided to do). Participating in the dialogue grants benefits only a story-driven player would appreciate, thus granting it merit, but not removing its value in the overall scope of the game. The player could even go against the intent specified, and that would have an effect on gameplay.
These things run on the same principle as whether or not to allow the player to "level-grind," thus making the rest of the game's static challenges easier and more boring. If the player wants to do that, let them. You are obligated to adapt to their playstyle, and not the other way around. The consequences of not doing so are simple: the audience for you game will just be smaller.
As for looting, I'm leaning towards item dropping because it fits into the "business-style" concept my idea is realizing. The items you get can either be sold like equipment, or you can hand it over to your Research & Development (R&D) team and, in a day's time, they'll hand back new equipment. Doing so gives your R&D more "experience," which in turn helps them develop better equipment later. Party strength is mostly influenced by equipment, so there's incentive to participate.
One of them is the distinct separation of storyline and combat. Have you played games like Tekken where cutscenes are "unlocked" and saved to be viewed again later? A system similar to this in an RPG, I think, would be an excelent way to attract the type of action-driven players who aren't particularly interested in storyline. During the usual "order of operations" during gameplay, a specific moment is allocated to view cutscenes "unlocked" relating to recent events. The player can choose to view them then, or ignore them and look at them another time via a menu option. For story-driven players, this would feel somewhat awkward, but for other players it would be like watching a series of entertaining short films.
Furthermore, some of the cutscenes - marked with an indicator signifying importance - can have plot-changing dialogue branches that, if the player chooses to act on his/her intentions before stating them in the cutscene, are defaulted to the player's choice (the dialogue branch would pick an answer that suits whatever the player decided to do). Participating in the dialogue grants benefits only a story-driven player would appreciate, thus granting it merit, but not removing its value in the overall scope of the game. The player could even go against the intent specified, and that would have an effect on gameplay.
These things run on the same principle as whether or not to allow the player to "level-grind," thus making the rest of the game's static challenges easier and more boring. If the player wants to do that, let them. You are obligated to adapt to their playstyle, and not the other way around. The consequences of not doing so are simple: the audience for you game will just be smaller.
As for looting, I'm leaning towards item dropping because it fits into the "business-style" concept my idea is realizing. The items you get can either be sold like equipment, or you can hand it over to your Research & Development (R&D) team and, in a day's time, they'll hand back new equipment. Doing so gives your R&D more "experience," which in turn helps them develop better equipment later. Party strength is mostly influenced by equipment, so there's incentive to participate.
maladroithim
1495
author=Fallen-Griever link=topic=2605.msg48630#msg48630 date=1228262719
A scene pass engine? If you don't want to play games that have storyline segments and scenes etc. then why are you playing RPGs?
Well it's a cliche bro but if you care about stories why are you playing video games? I think you are truly kidding yourself if you think that you play video games for their stories. You might even think you are and you might like the game story and all but you are in it for a lot more than that.
author=McDohl link=topic=2605.msg48200#msg48200 date=1228118403
topic text waaaaaaaaaaall
I... I never really thought about it. Maybe this says something about me; I don't care where the money comes from as long as it is money.
I must confess-- I play RPG Maker games with one finger while laying my head on my desk at a 90 degree angle to the screen. I tap Enter and sometimes reach for Esc in between sips of Code Red Dew and bites of Cheezits.
I've forgotten my original point, so I'll say this: Don't change something that has worked for decades just to be "different."
Shadowtext
120
I find that an emphasis on believable or realistic economies and politics and in-depth histories in a video game (or even novels a lot of the time) pretty much always correlates with an unenjoyably dry experience. When I start hearing people talk about that sort of thing my eyes gloss over and I have flashbacks to reading the Silmarillion and realizing for the first time how much I hated Tolkien.
It's like weaponized nerdism, like the author is trying to slap you in the face with his own God Complex. "This isn't just entertainment! It's A WORLD! It's SIGNIFICANT! And I created it! Praise me!"
I mean the popularity of exercises in raw world building shows that there's clearly an audience for that stuff, but I'm definitely not part of it anymore.
It's like weaponized nerdism, like the author is trying to slap you in the face with his own God Complex. "This isn't just entertainment! It's A WORLD! It's SIGNIFICANT! And I created it! Praise me!"
I mean the popularity of exercises in raw world building shows that there's clearly an audience for that stuff, but I'm definitely not part of it anymore.
Clest
0
Aero: I would be one hating your separate cutscene idea. I don´t like to sit and watch several cutscenes for long, I like to have interaction and story intertwining so I don´t get tired of either. There is also linearity and story flow, if the story and events won´t run in a timeline nicely, then I´d better not have story at all (which would mean the system should be action packed as hell like a platformers or something, if I need to plan and think, I need story).
As to level grind, I think the only fair way to make a game where grinding is possible, but it is good for nom grinders is to show the appropriate level for each area/boss before battle, but I still find grinding pointless altogether. I prefer to award bonuses to stats or extra skills through certain challenges so unless the player is out for challenges they can just fulfill missions/battles without much trouble, but not much on extra stuff since they won´t need it anyway. If players really want their characters to become Gods, then they should play another game.
I love the R&D part, reminds me of Cyber Knight for Snes :)
Shadow: Well I agree in part with your point, but since I play/read exactly to forget our world and be inside another more interesting one, the more deep it is, the less I will be brought back.
As to level grind, I think the only fair way to make a game where grinding is possible, but it is good for nom grinders is to show the appropriate level for each area/boss before battle, but I still find grinding pointless altogether. I prefer to award bonuses to stats or extra skills through certain challenges so unless the player is out for challenges they can just fulfill missions/battles without much trouble, but not much on extra stuff since they won´t need it anyway. If players really want their characters to become Gods, then they should play another game.
I love the R&D part, reminds me of Cyber Knight for Snes :)
Shadow: Well I agree in part with your point, but since I play/read exactly to forget our world and be inside another more interesting one, the more deep it is, the less I will be brought back.
author=brandonabley link=topic=2605.msg48873#msg48873 date=1228343047author=Fallen-Griever link=topic=2605.msg48630#msg48630 date=1228262719
A scene pass engine? If you don't want to play games that have storyline segments and scenes etc. then why are you playing RPGs?
Well it's a cliche bro but if you care about stories why are you playing video games? I think you are truly kidding yourself if you think that you play video games for their stories. You might even think you are and you might like the game story and all but you are in it for a lot more than that.
The plot is too big of a part of an RPG to skip it. I hate skipping cutscenes even in games like Halo.
Shadowtext
120
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2605.msg48939#msg48939 date=1228356581One of the guys from id (I forget if it was Carmack or Romero) once said "Plot in games is like plot in porn: You expect it to be there, but it's not that important."author=brandonabley link=topic=2605.msg48873#msg48873 date=1228343047author=Fallen-Griever link=topic=2605.msg48630#msg48630 date=1228262719
A scene pass engine? If you don't want to play games that have storyline segments and scenes etc. then why are you playing RPGs?
Well it's a cliche bro but if you care about stories why are you playing video games? I think you are truly kidding yourself if you think that you play video games for their stories. You might even think you are and you might like the game story and all but you are in it for a lot more than that.
The plot is too big of a part of an RPG to skip it. I hate skipping cutscenes even in games like Halo.
I'm not really a big id fan, but I like that sentiment, even in regards to RPGs.
AeroGP
64
author=Clest link=topic=2605.msg48935#msg48935 date=1228355747
Aero: I would be one hating your separate cutscene idea. I don´t like to sit and watch several cutscenes for long, I like to have interaction and story intertwining so I don´t get tired of either. There is also linearity and story flow, if the story and events won´t run in a timeline nicely, then I´d better not have story at all (which would mean the system should be action packed as hell like a platformers or something, if I need to plan and think, I need story).
All this does is give you the option; it's the player's choice to exercise that option. If you want your story and your combat intertwined, you view the skits the moment you get them, and if you don't, you don't. And I've thought about the linearity issue, too. Any cutscenes for which, chronologically, the timeframe to act on them has passed, would be viewed like a "flashback" as if it had happened anyways (but you won't get the benefits of having seen them around the time you got them). Completely ignoring a cutscene until the game's end would be the equivalent of not having that conversation or event happen at all. Since you can go and do things without having to be told about them, it's fairly easy to organize the storyline this way, as well as convenient for players who've gone through the game once already.
author=Clest link=topic=2605.msg48935#msg48935 date=1228355747
As to level grind, I think the only fair way to make a game where grinding is possible, but it is good for nom grinders is to show the appropriate level for each area/boss before battle, but I still find grinding pointless altogether. I prefer to award bonuses to stats or extra skills through certain challenges so unless the player is out for challenges they can just fulfill missions/battles without much trouble, but not much on extra stuff since they won´t need it anyway. If players really want their characters to become Gods, then they should play another game.
I honestly don't understand where you're coming from. Players should be free to roleplay the way they want. The more flexibility you give them without spiraling into an endless pool of confusion, the better. If they want to play God, let them play God.
author=Clest link=topic=2605.msg48935#msg48935 date=1228355747
I love the R&D part, reminds me of Cyber Knight for Snes :)
Never heard of it, but thank you for the compliment.
Clest
0
About the cutscene thing: Oh now I got it, it would be like a cuscene skip, just that you have a review renu. That is good actually, reminds me of Lunar where you get an iten that lets you reply cutscenes, just that in your case it applies to the ones you skipped too.
As for grinding/roleplay: My game is linear and you don´t make your own characters, the best you do is control those characters in side quests out of the linear plot, but all still inside what would be possible to happen in that world and to those characters. In my setting there are no gods nor super heroes, there has magic and overtechnology, but those are open to everyone and you play as average ppl, not exactly heroes destined or something. If I open that possibility to become a god, I´d break the setting and screw my main target audience.
Regarding that, you can still fight to your heart´s content if you really like the system or battle graphics, however it won´t make you super man (in fact I hate super man). My game is made to supply something I believe is lacking, not to just be different nor to just join what is there.
And well in Cyber Knight you can pick up remaints of enemies and process then in your lad to turn then into goodies for your characters.
As for grinding/roleplay: My game is linear and you don´t make your own characters, the best you do is control those characters in side quests out of the linear plot, but all still inside what would be possible to happen in that world and to those characters. In my setting there are no gods nor super heroes, there has magic and overtechnology, but those are open to everyone and you play as average ppl, not exactly heroes destined or something. If I open that possibility to become a god, I´d break the setting and screw my main target audience.
Regarding that, you can still fight to your heart´s content if you really like the system or battle graphics, however it won´t make you super man (in fact I hate super man). My game is made to supply something I believe is lacking, not to just be different nor to just join what is there.
And well in Cyber Knight you can pick up remaints of enemies and process then in your lad to turn then into goodies for your characters.
McDohl
120
author=Shadowtext link=topic=2605.msg48943#msg48943 date=1228356747
One of the guys from id (I forget if it was Carmack or Romero) once said "Plot in games is like plot in porn: You expect it to be there, but it's not that important."
I'm not really a big id fan, but I like that sentiment, even in regards to RPGs.
If there's no plot to a game, then you're playing something like DDR.
Which is fine for DDR. Not a game genre as defined as role-playing game.
