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RPG MECHANICS III : RANDOM ENCOUNTER DESIGN THEORY
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LouisCyphre
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CloseRPG Mechanics III : Random Encounter Design Theory
Ideal Questions
This will be sort of a multi-sided topic, as it will deal with how random encounters are placed on the map, how they are rationalized, how they are balanced, and most importantly their role in relation to boss encounters (which will be the topic of RPGA4, so try not to get too in-depth in anything about boss fights that doesn't relate to random/wandering encounters.
Firstly, how to you place encounters on your map? Do you merely use the map properties to set monster groups and encounter rate? Or do you make eevnts that wander the map or pursue the player? Do you set up a parallel process to count the player's steps, or do you have an alternative system? Do you even have random encounters at all?
Secondly, how to you explain random encounters? Are they animals that inhabit your wildernesses, preying on anything they deems edible? do they prey on other monsters, or do they eat only people? Are they soldiers of an opposing nation or faction that patrol various areas, and are ordered to kill on sight? Why are they your enemy? A demonic plague of nether-beings born to feast on human flesh? Who brought them into being? Machines gone haywire, that attack anything picked up by their sensors? If so, what is their power source?
Next, how do you balance your fights? Do you use a set of rules, such as "all dinosaurs are stunned by lightning" or "elementals are auto-killed by their opposing element" to add depth to your system? Or is each fight a struggle with resources and status effects in order to wear down an opponent? Do you transition from one style of combat to another over the course of the game? FFX did this well in my opinion, starting with "match the character to the enemy" and moving to "here's a big homie, use your whole team or perish".
Lastly, how to you distinguish them from boss encounters? Do you keep random encounters short and sweet? Or are they held to a set of rules that bosses don't necessarily follow? Do you rely on music to set them apart? Or are they characterized by a different style of battle? An example of this would be Persona, where random fights are most often won by striking targets' weaknesses, earning extra turns; while bosses are beaten by applying the right buffs and attack at the right time.
This is part of a series of topics that will deal with aesthetics involving the detailed analysis of the numbers and mechanics of RPGs, what can be kept, and what should be discarded.
I'm taking a break from 1873 until all of the bug reports are in, and tinkering with one of my back-burner projects for the rest of the break.
In this project my magic system is ripped from FF8, except I'm avoiding their mistake of making monsters the only source of good spells. My magic serves as items, thus stores such as general stores and the like sell spells instead of potions.
This ties into my random encounters thus: The main character (and him alone) can absorb spells from opponents and add them to the party's (almost put posse) inventory. However, this character dishes out the most damage as well (for the most part). The player must decide whether they want to end the fight quickly, maybe without taking damage, or if they want free spells at the cost of taking damage from attacks.
Also, the solution to a fight tends to be in absorption. I pair poison-inflicting monsters with enemies you can absorb Munid (status-cure) from, and fire elementals with water elementals. Most often, one monster in a monster group has the other monster's weakness.
My monsters are a fact of nature. They stand in for animals, meaning not all of them have malicious intent. The dire rat may certainly find the giant dragonfly a more inviting target than the party. The dragonfly, being carnivorous, might not might a meal of human flesh, however. So do you attack the rat, earning its ire and making it hostile, or do you attack the dragonfly, even though the rat will dispose of it swiftly anyway?
Ideal Questions
This will be sort of a multi-sided topic, as it will deal with how random encounters are placed on the map, how they are rationalized, how they are balanced, and most importantly their role in relation to boss encounters (which will be the topic of RPGA4, so try not to get too in-depth in anything about boss fights that doesn't relate to random/wandering encounters.
Firstly, how to you place encounters on your map? Do you merely use the map properties to set monster groups and encounter rate? Or do you make eevnts that wander the map or pursue the player? Do you set up a parallel process to count the player's steps, or do you have an alternative system? Do you even have random encounters at all?
Secondly, how to you explain random encounters? Are they animals that inhabit your wildernesses, preying on anything they deems edible? do they prey on other monsters, or do they eat only people? Are they soldiers of an opposing nation or faction that patrol various areas, and are ordered to kill on sight? Why are they your enemy? A demonic plague of nether-beings born to feast on human flesh? Who brought them into being? Machines gone haywire, that attack anything picked up by their sensors? If so, what is their power source?
Next, how do you balance your fights? Do you use a set of rules, such as "all dinosaurs are stunned by lightning" or "elementals are auto-killed by their opposing element" to add depth to your system? Or is each fight a struggle with resources and status effects in order to wear down an opponent? Do you transition from one style of combat to another over the course of the game? FFX did this well in my opinion, starting with "match the character to the enemy" and moving to "here's a big homie, use your whole team or perish".
Lastly, how to you distinguish them from boss encounters? Do you keep random encounters short and sweet? Or are they held to a set of rules that bosses don't necessarily follow? Do you rely on music to set them apart? Or are they characterized by a different style of battle? An example of this would be Persona, where random fights are most often won by striking targets' weaknesses, earning extra turns; while bosses are beaten by applying the right buffs and attack at the right time.
This is part of a series of topics that will deal with aesthetics involving the detailed analysis of the numbers and mechanics of RPGs, what can be kept, and what should be discarded.
I'm taking a break from 1873 until all of the bug reports are in, and tinkering with one of my back-burner projects for the rest of the break.
In this project my magic system is ripped from FF8, except I'm avoiding their mistake of making monsters the only source of good spells. My magic serves as items, thus stores such as general stores and the like sell spells instead of potions.
This ties into my random encounters thus: The main character (and him alone) can absorb spells from opponents and add them to the party's (almost put posse) inventory. However, this character dishes out the most damage as well (for the most part). The player must decide whether they want to end the fight quickly, maybe without taking damage, or if they want free spells at the cost of taking damage from attacks.
Also, the solution to a fight tends to be in absorption. I pair poison-inflicting monsters with enemies you can absorb Munid (status-cure) from, and fire elementals with water elementals. Most often, one monster in a monster group has the other monster's weakness.
My monsters are a fact of nature. They stand in for animals, meaning not all of them have malicious intent. The dire rat may certainly find the giant dragonfly a more inviting target than the party. The dragonfly, being carnivorous, might not might a meal of human flesh, however. So do you attack the rat, earning its ire and making it hostile, or do you attack the dragonfly, even though the rat will dispose of it swiftly anyway?
sellout
54
Firstly, how to you place encounters on your map?
- Randomly, it is the most efficient. I have placed monsters on screen along with their deaths and ways to revive them. People think wow that's neat... for five minutes. Then they do not care.
Secondly, how to you explain random encounters?
- Thinking too much hurts people. There should be a back story behind creatures that townspeople should talk about. Like the monsters are ruthless and kill on sight or the fairies in the area will heal anyone that comes into contact with them or pixies will just run.
Next, how do you balance your fights?
- The old school way... Buy the best stuff that can be bought, and fight enemies. They should give you no problem, but not be pushovers when you have the best stuff you can BUY. Finding stuff is a bonus and going underprepaired just makes things harder, like a difficulty. Sort of like... worst armor / weapons = hard... best armor / weapons you can buy = average... found armor / weapons = easy.
Lastly, how to you distinguish them from boss encounters?
- Music, thought on how to kill the boss, HP, battle length. I put a lot of thought into my boss battles, but it just frustrates people having to think instead of kill kill kill. Like the only way to kill an octopus is to kill the tentacles before you kill the head, and people try killing the head and always die even if the player character says... deal with the tentacles first!!!
- Randomly, it is the most efficient. I have placed monsters on screen along with their deaths and ways to revive them. People think wow that's neat... for five minutes. Then they do not care.
Secondly, how to you explain random encounters?
- Thinking too much hurts people. There should be a back story behind creatures that townspeople should talk about. Like the monsters are ruthless and kill on sight or the fairies in the area will heal anyone that comes into contact with them or pixies will just run.
Next, how do you balance your fights?
- The old school way... Buy the best stuff that can be bought, and fight enemies. They should give you no problem, but not be pushovers when you have the best stuff you can BUY. Finding stuff is a bonus and going underprepaired just makes things harder, like a difficulty. Sort of like... worst armor / weapons = hard... best armor / weapons you can buy = average... found armor / weapons = easy.
Lastly, how to you distinguish them from boss encounters?
- Music, thought on how to kill the boss, HP, battle length. I put a lot of thought into my boss battles, but it just frustrates people having to think instead of kill kill kill. Like the only way to kill an octopus is to kill the tentacles before you kill the head, and people try killing the head and always die even if the player character says... deal with the tentacles first!!!
AeroGP
64
I don't have an un/official RPG project, but I do collect ideas for one when they come to me. Note that my notes are for an event-driven, tactical RPG.
Firstly, I appreciate both kinds of encounters. Random encounters break monotony when done right, but lack control which frustrates players focused on achieving progress outside of combat. Inversely, fixed combat gives you freedom of engagement, but lead to predictability. The solution I propose is to use both. Similarly to FFT, locations have important fixed battles, and then random battles after the story event has been completed. It fixes the problem with Disgaea's way of fighting the same opponents all over again. Too much unpredictability, and the player becomes lost; too little, and he becomes bored. Capture both, and you're right on the money.
Secondly, I'd explain random encounters as rival teams standing in your way. You're a business that seeks to profit in collecting resources and treasures, and other businesses that reach those resources before you pose a threat. Sometimes, it is not another group that antagonizes you, but the local threat that has not been fully purged. (wildlife, monsters, evil spirits, etc.) And at other times, these conflicting forces are caught waging war against each other, and you're stuck dealing with them all at once. (after all, your rivals can't profit when monsters are in their way, either)
Thirdly, I'd like to use rules to determine enemy strategy, but allow some enemies to be somewhat invulnerable or neutral so the player is encouraged to mix-up their offense instead of exploiting the same attack or spell repeatedly. Combat style would change based on the over-arching types of enemies the player encounters. For example, a group of ghost may require using distance and light based attacks, while a group of terrorists may need to be dealt with in one quick burst before they're able to retaliate.
Lastly, boss encounters would be distinguished by one distinct enemy that requires more than simple offensive tactics to defeat, and may be greatly vulnerable to changes in the environment caused by the player (falling rocks, for instance), which may also restrict the player's actions. Both the boss and its encounter would be divided into parts. I'd take a book from Kingdom Hearts and divide boss music into "tiers" and "character themes." (weak bosses would use one song, stronger ones another, and specific characters their own songs)
Firstly, I appreciate both kinds of encounters. Random encounters break monotony when done right, but lack control which frustrates players focused on achieving progress outside of combat. Inversely, fixed combat gives you freedom of engagement, but lead to predictability. The solution I propose is to use both. Similarly to FFT, locations have important fixed battles, and then random battles after the story event has been completed. It fixes the problem with Disgaea's way of fighting the same opponents all over again. Too much unpredictability, and the player becomes lost; too little, and he becomes bored. Capture both, and you're right on the money.
Secondly, I'd explain random encounters as rival teams standing in your way. You're a business that seeks to profit in collecting resources and treasures, and other businesses that reach those resources before you pose a threat. Sometimes, it is not another group that antagonizes you, but the local threat that has not been fully purged. (wildlife, monsters, evil spirits, etc.) And at other times, these conflicting forces are caught waging war against each other, and you're stuck dealing with them all at once. (after all, your rivals can't profit when monsters are in their way, either)
Thirdly, I'd like to use rules to determine enemy strategy, but allow some enemies to be somewhat invulnerable or neutral so the player is encouraged to mix-up their offense instead of exploiting the same attack or spell repeatedly. Combat style would change based on the over-arching types of enemies the player encounters. For example, a group of ghost may require using distance and light based attacks, while a group of terrorists may need to be dealt with in one quick burst before they're able to retaliate.
Lastly, boss encounters would be distinguished by one distinct enemy that requires more than simple offensive tactics to defeat, and may be greatly vulnerable to changes in the environment caused by the player (falling rocks, for instance), which may also restrict the player's actions. Both the boss and its encounter would be divided into parts. I'd take a book from Kingdom Hearts and divide boss music into "tiers" and "character themes." (weak bosses would use one song, stronger ones another, and specific characters their own songs)
Goldenguy
855
Firstly, how to you place encounters on your map?
- Random encounters. If I were to do non-random encounters, I would really want pertinent monster graphics, and I neither can find enough, nor have the time to make enough (or the skills to make any that look great).
Secondly, how to you explain random encounters?
- In my own game, the monsters (mostly animals) are just pertinent to their own area or the influences surrounding them.
Next, how do you balance your fights?
- I pretty much decide how many hits I'd prefer it to take to kill a monster (and for a monster to kill a hero) using the best purchasable equipment up to that point, with some variance of course.
Lastly, how to you distinguish them from boss encounters?
- Music, usually the size of the monster, and definitely boss fights only occur during set scenes with me.
- Random encounters. If I were to do non-random encounters, I would really want pertinent monster graphics, and I neither can find enough, nor have the time to make enough (or the skills to make any that look great).
Secondly, how to you explain random encounters?
- In my own game, the monsters (mostly animals) are just pertinent to their own area or the influences surrounding them.
Next, how do you balance your fights?
- I pretty much decide how many hits I'd prefer it to take to kill a monster (and for a monster to kill a hero) using the best purchasable equipment up to that point, with some variance of course.
Lastly, how to you distinguish them from boss encounters?
- Music, usually the size of the monster, and definitely boss fights only occur during set scenes with me.
Holy out of place indentations Batman!
Firstly, how to you place encounters on your map?
Random encounters. After an encounter the player gets a number of free steps where they will not get in another encounter so there won't be encounter chains. Also the player can change the encounter rate once they get the right items (which takes less than an hour) from the menu.
Secondly, how to you explain random encounters?
Enemies are jerks and want to kill you.
Next, how do you balance your fights?
I play the game. Fight them with what a player might/should have (should=healing items or status recovery items and somewhat up to date gear) and see if someone is tearing the other side a new one, that the player has a counter for 90% of what the enemy can do at that time, and that what the player should have will help against at least one enemy (see: An item that heals blind so an enemy should use blind. Preferebly multiple enemies throughout the game).
Lastly, how to you distinguish them from boss encounters?
Bosses are bigger jerks. They'll do things that regular enemies don't, like use new status effects, kick a character out of the party for the fight, disable the inventory, and have a bit more AI than "Do this move then do this move or this move". They also take a few more hits to kill.
Firstly, how to you place encounters on your map?
Random encounters. After an encounter the player gets a number of free steps where they will not get in another encounter so there won't be encounter chains. Also the player can change the encounter rate once they get the right items (which takes less than an hour) from the menu.
Secondly, how to you explain random encounters?
Enemies are jerks and want to kill you.
Next, how do you balance your fights?
I play the game. Fight them with what a player might/should have (should=healing items or status recovery items and somewhat up to date gear) and see if someone is tearing the other side a new one, that the player has a counter for 90% of what the enemy can do at that time, and that what the player should have will help against at least one enemy (see: An item that heals blind so an enemy should use blind. Preferebly multiple enemies throughout the game).
Lastly, how to you distinguish them from boss encounters?
Bosses are bigger jerks. They'll do things that regular enemies don't, like use new status effects, kick a character out of the party for the fight, disable the inventory, and have a bit more AI than "Do this move then do this move or this move". They also take a few more hits to kill.
Because I haven't gotten far enough in the process to answer these questions for my current projects, I'll use my old dead project Oceanus and my horrible retard brainchild Catastrophe, both short-lived, as examples.
Firstly, how to you place encounters on your map?
I use events on the map that either pursue the player or follow a set path, for the most part. I really dislike random battles; I don't like sneaking up on the player, and I hate being interrupted in the middle of solving a puzzle to do something else. Using events allows for much better dungeon design; rather than having battles spring up at unpredictable times, you can space the battles out and place them at convenient intervals, as well as letting the player see what's ahead and give them a chance to avoid it if they so choose. One of the first things I caught on to when experimenting in RMXP was that I could use Move Route, Event Touch and Battle Processing in tandem.
Secondly, how to you explain random encounters? Both games had monsters that lurked in the wild preying on vulnerable travelers. Both games also had human enemies that were attacking you for whatever reason, and whole dungeons could be full of them. Human enemies were either highwaymen/muggers, part of a plot-related faction, or important characters that would end up as boss fights.
Next, how do you balance your fights? It depends. Most dungeons would either be crawling with generic enemies that required you to use any strategy you wanted, or the enemies would have a sort of theme that would make you use unique strategies. For example, I had a haunted forest planned for the second contract in Oceanus in which the enemies were all, surprise surprise, ghosts. They were unaffected by physical attacks, and you had to use elemental skills to damage them.
Lastly, how to you distinguish them from boss encounters? Bosses are big, bad, and ugly. They're generally a LOT tougher than all the other enemies in the dungeon, and they require specific strategies. Unlike normal enemies, the situation changes over time; the boss might be using basic attacks while his minions are doing the real work. With both of them alive, your fragile characters have a difficult time breathing as they're under the constant threat of death in a single turn. Once his minions are dead and he's sustained a fair amount of damage, however, he might start unleashing his dark magic on you or draining your HP. If he gets desperate enough, he'll even summon another one of his underlings while continuing to dish out his own brand of whoopass. This is just an example, based off the Dracula fight from Catastrophe that was never fully functional.
Firstly, how to you place encounters on your map?
I use events on the map that either pursue the player or follow a set path, for the most part. I really dislike random battles; I don't like sneaking up on the player, and I hate being interrupted in the middle of solving a puzzle to do something else. Using events allows for much better dungeon design; rather than having battles spring up at unpredictable times, you can space the battles out and place them at convenient intervals, as well as letting the player see what's ahead and give them a chance to avoid it if they so choose. One of the first things I caught on to when experimenting in RMXP was that I could use Move Route, Event Touch and Battle Processing in tandem.
Secondly, how to you explain random encounters? Both games had monsters that lurked in the wild preying on vulnerable travelers. Both games also had human enemies that were attacking you for whatever reason, and whole dungeons could be full of them. Human enemies were either highwaymen/muggers, part of a plot-related faction, or important characters that would end up as boss fights.
Next, how do you balance your fights? It depends. Most dungeons would either be crawling with generic enemies that required you to use any strategy you wanted, or the enemies would have a sort of theme that would make you use unique strategies. For example, I had a haunted forest planned for the second contract in Oceanus in which the enemies were all, surprise surprise, ghosts. They were unaffected by physical attacks, and you had to use elemental skills to damage them.
Lastly, how to you distinguish them from boss encounters? Bosses are big, bad, and ugly. They're generally a LOT tougher than all the other enemies in the dungeon, and they require specific strategies. Unlike normal enemies, the situation changes over time; the boss might be using basic attacks while his minions are doing the real work. With both of them alive, your fragile characters have a difficult time breathing as they're under the constant threat of death in a single turn. Once his minions are dead and he's sustained a fair amount of damage, however, he might start unleashing his dark magic on you or draining your HP. If he gets desperate enough, he'll even summon another one of his underlings while continuing to dish out his own brand of whoopass. This is just an example, based off the Dracula fight from Catastrophe that was never fully functional.
Why are you asking HOW DO YOU DIFFERENTIATE BOSS BATTLES FROM NON-BOSS BATTLES? You are begging for off-the-cuff jargon and nothing more than 'DIFFERENT MUSIC/BIGGER SPRITE'. Why the Hell does it matter, anyway--those two points are the universal methods, and not going along with them is pretty much INSTA-FAIL. If your player doesn't know that they are in a TOUGH BATTLE (different music, bigger mofo to fight) then you suck at making games.
<Guy who makes boss battles totally normal fights with more HP> I r innovat
<Guy who makes boss battles totally normal fights with more HP> I r innovat
Craze: Dude, you're THE numbers guy. I'd like to get some feedback from you in some of these topics.
author=Craze link=topic=2765.msg52372#msg52372 date=1230149441Pretty much this. GUYS (and gals) I want to know whether your fights PLAY differently than random encounters, or if they're played by the same rules. Are your bosses vulnerable to the same methods of attack and status conditions? Stuff like that.
If your player doesn't know that they are in a TOUGH BATTLE (different music, bigger mofo to fight) then you suck at making games.
Firstly, how to you place encounters on your map?
Well, I take an event and make it into a monster. Then if you get too close or run in to a monster you'll engage in combat. The thing is that you will only fight the amount of monsters that you ran in to/got surprised by/got chased by.
Usually they'll be deployed around a treasure or at the entrance to a new area. Some will run around the map either minding their own business or trying to catch you. Get to close to those doing their own thing and they'll attack.
Secondly, how to you explain random encounters?
I don't have them so I don't bother explaining them. As for explaining monsters in general? They're usually just wild animals that are living their own lives until some adventurer comes along and decides to go on a killing spree.
Next, how do you balance your fights?
I usually test them out with which characters you are expected to have at that point of the game, what weapons/level/items you'd expect a normal player to have. I'll also have a few saved states to test with. I like to make the monster stats close to those of the players - including HP - and give them skills that help them as well as damage the player, just to be fair.
Lastly, how to you distinguish them from boss encounters?
Usually I'll have a small cutscene before the fight or some indication during the battle (besides music and graphic changes) that this is a BOSS. IE: I have one boss that is shown beating up some monsters that you've been fighting in the area (you actually get to fight as said monster). If you had trouble with them then you'll be in bigger trouble engaging said boss.
Well, I take an event and make it into a monster. Then if you get too close or run in to a monster you'll engage in combat. The thing is that you will only fight the amount of monsters that you ran in to/got surprised by/got chased by.
Usually they'll be deployed around a treasure or at the entrance to a new area. Some will run around the map either minding their own business or trying to catch you. Get to close to those doing their own thing and they'll attack.
Secondly, how to you explain random encounters?
I don't have them so I don't bother explaining them. As for explaining monsters in general? They're usually just wild animals that are living their own lives until some adventurer comes along and decides to go on a killing spree.
Next, how do you balance your fights?
I usually test them out with which characters you are expected to have at that point of the game, what weapons/level/items you'd expect a normal player to have. I'll also have a few saved states to test with. I like to make the monster stats close to those of the players - including HP - and give them skills that help them as well as damage the player, just to be fair.
Lastly, how to you distinguish them from boss encounters?
Usually I'll have a small cutscene before the fight or some indication during the battle (besides music and graphic changes) that this is a BOSS. IE: I have one boss that is shown beating up some monsters that you've been fighting in the area (you actually get to fight as said monster). If you had trouble with them then you'll be in bigger trouble engaging said boss.
Sorry Chaos, but these topics are too pretentious for my tastes. I'd rather work on my game than make up new words to describe it.
author=Craze link=topic=2765.msg52482#msg52482 date=1230218017
Sorry Chaos, but these topics are too pretentious for my tastes. I'd rather work on my game than make up new words to describe it.
Oh come the hell on, man! Not everyone needs these topics, true, but if everyone just went 'hey I'm just gonna work on my game instead of partaking in discussions to make it better and learn better game design', we'd have a lot better games in the community. Yeah, it's true that all talk and no 'walk' (i.e., not working on your game) is just as bad, but sharing and discussing ideas to make better games than some of the pieces of shit that plague the community is hardly pretentious.
AeroGP
64
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2765.msg52505#msg52505 date=1230240380
... If everyone just went 'hey I'm just gonna work on my game instead of partaking in discussions to make it better and learn better game design', we'd have a lot better games in the community.
I think it hurts your case that you just spelt out why Craze has a right NOT to read this thread.
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