COMMUNITY DISCUSSION: SO LET'S TAKE MORE PRIDE IN OURSELVES.

author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2884.msg55831#msg55831 date=1231863704
And this has nothing to do with the previous post or comments but why is everyone so cynical nowadays? It's really stupid!

I'm cynical due to a massive racial inferiority complex that dominates most of my personality.

Well, on a more serious note... er, rather on a more on-topic note because that wasn't a joke at all... (essay post)

Mog said that most XP/VX games look the same. I agree. But I'm going to also say that most 2000 and 2003 games look the same too. I mean, most of the games I see just look like generic RPG fluff. Rudra, REFMAP, whatever it is, it's all beginning to look the same. I've always tried to make my games look different, and they have turned out completely different. I've also gotten a lot of good response from them, and comments on how I tend to make "different" games.

The thing is, graphics like Rudra and REFMAP are turning into the new RTP. The screenshots Liberty posted in the thread looked so fresh to me because I hadn't seen RTP used for so long. (In fact, I haven't seen it used well at all elsewhere really, except for Hero's Realm.) If more people broke the mold, rocked the boat, and tried to make original and fun stuff, I would play games from this community. Most people seem to be following a fairly traditional RPG mold too, which has basically completely stopped me from playing RM RPGs. I mean, if people tried to make games differently, or even tried to branch out genres, we'd have a much more diverse and interesting selection. Honestly, most games just look bland. If people made, say, adventure games, that would be like a breath of fresh air. Or even other genres.

This leads into the argument about makers. I mean, you can't make much else besides RPGs in RPGMaker. I would really like to see people branching out in makers, or at least breaking out of genres. Reives' I don't really want to play generic jRPG crap, which a lot of games seem to be. I want games to make me think about them and make me want to play them more. For example, the Mirror Lied was absolutely amazing to me. It looks similar to other XP games, but it breaks the mold of typical games, and stood out so much to me. I mean, I still use RPGMaker 2003, but I don't make RPGs, I make adventure games.

I mean, if you look at this...

compared to:

The first two screenshots (one of which is mine >_>) break the graphical mold. They look different from other games out there, using different resources. (Both are custom graphics though.) I would likely play them just for graphical freshness. The second two are different games, but utilize a bland REFMAP style to me. (First one is at an odd resolution, disregard that aspect.) I wouldn't take any interest at all.
Now... this is... something that utilizes REFMAP, but it still breaks the graphical mold. Even though it uses, RTP, it has a "fresher" look that isn't so bland. At first, I didn't even realize there was REFMAP in it!


I'm not trying to promote GRAPHICS ONLY, since most of my favorite RM games aren't actually too graphically special. (Razorblade Symphony, Legion's games, ABL, etc.)
However, these days REFMAP is getting too bland. I also do not really want to see your RUDRA RIPS or FF6 RIPS or ANIME GAME or FF FANGAME. I mean, a lot of ripped resources are getting too common and boring... and sometimes putting anime into games is just bad taste. People should use lesser spread rips such as Terranigma, or something, instead of just Rudra and FF6.

People have commented that XP/VX has so much more potential programming-wise. It does, but that does take a lot more time to learn, especially if you use 2003 or something. I mean, I've never spent very long designing systems, and even still I'd bet that I've made more complex stuff than the majority of the 2003-users. (Like... everyone but Carius and others. That was an arrogant thing to say. I realize.) People have said that 2003 is incredibly time consuming, but I've never felt so. I've created every single custom system I've made in less than a week, merely because I'm used to 2003 and I know how it works. I've also assembled an amazing team, the three of us who are all great people, and we all work with 2003. Sticking with 2003 is the best way for us to work together, and personally, I believe we produce amazing results.

Now, moving onto the community issue...
Well, for a while now, I've been in between GW and RMN, as many of us are. Being fairly active on both sites... well, honestly there is not this sort of competition as some of you may really think... Gaming World does not focus on game design anymore, while we do. I mean, Gaming World does include game design as a part of it, but it is a community-based thing, while I feel RMN is game-design-based. I mean, there's not really competition between the two sites. Most games I see are posted at both places. So honestly, I don't think RMN should be some sort of anti-GW competition at all. That is just dumb.

The whole "I play your game you play mine" is fine with me, but I wouldn't promote it. Honestly, I'm fairly elitist myself and sometimes I just play games released by certain people (Legion, Neok, etc.) If you have an anime-heavy game or I <3 JAPAN & ANIME avatar, there is literally no chance of me playing your game unless it looks really, really spectacular (this is part of the whole thing where people don't have any originality.) My ideal community would be a few members who all kinda know each other and just make games...

I think one of the major issues is being unresponsive to criticism. I've kinda... well, I kinda trolled Asalieri when he criticizing me, making it slightly hypocritical. But members like drakyith (I don't have anything against you) become incredibly enraged when you say bad things about their game. I mean, if you're going to post it, of course some people aren't going to like it and might say bad things about it. This is something people need to accept, and if they want to make their game better, they need to listen. I disagree with the idea of "being nice as most important" as drakyith also said! I feel that a certain degree of harshness is reasonable when commenting on other games. A lot of my screenshots get looked over, and I tend to just see a lot of "HEY NICE SCREENSHOTS" with no real feedback. (I am guilty of this too.) I tend to be feedback hungry a lot, but I put effort into my games and I want to know how to improve.

Anyways... -_- Long post. I'm done for now. (I even proofread it.) I hope it makes sense, since I added a couple of sentences back in that might sound a little out of place.

author=Craze link=topic=2884.msg56005#msg56005 date=1231896707

author=Max McGee link=topic=2884.msg55986#msg55986 date=1231891776
LOL I like how Craze's big post was LOOK HOW MUCH I LOVE MYSELF. : )

I love what I do and pour everything I have into it. This is what makes my (recent) stuff fun. Maybe I just HAVE MORE but that is not the point of this topic.

Anyway,
*Craze is like a machine for producing complete and interesting games and his rabid adocation of RPG Maker VX is exactly in tune with the direction the scene needs to go in.

MOG: Direction, pride? Eh?

Also, it was not until today that I realized I am such a VX fanboy it hurts.

I said adocation and I MEANT adocation.

author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2884.msg56020#msg56020 date=1231900942

I'm cynical due to a massive racial inferiority complex that dominates most of my personality.

Be black! Comes with perks such as attracting white women, self propagating stereotypes about sexual prowess and penis size, and basketball skillz.

I don't really want to be black but I wish I could take this perk as a cross class skill. (I'm in a relationship right now, with a white woman no less, but it still seems like a very useful skill to have.)

What do you say, Mog, is cross-classing allowed?

I read the whole thing Azn, I just had no comment. :P

author=AznChipmunk link=topic=2884.msg56055#msg56055 date=1231906341

author=Neok link=topic=2884.msg56024#msg56024 date=1231901222
Don't be Psyburn :(



Actually, be Psyburn for a day, post your findings, then never do it again.

I am his Tyler Durden.

edit: did anyone read... my essay post heh

I stopped after swooning after I read about Hero's Realm. Sorry.

Discussing "pride" in a community like this does seem sort of silly. I'm not saying people aren't genuinely happy to be a part of it, but take a step back for a moment and take in what it's all about.

We're all here to make, play, or discuss amateur games.

The game makers post about their games, advertise them, and look for honest feedback. The people that play games provide that feedback or just want to find good games that are free or resemble the golden days of console RPG'ing or what have you. And everyone discusses, to different ends. Some people look for inspiration or ideas to truly better their craft, some help others by offering those ideas or criticisms, and some just post to feel as though they're part of a community.

What do you want out of being here?

I don't think we really need to legitimize what we all enjoy doing to those who say game making is "silly" or "unfun." We all know that it's fun, that's why we do it. That being said, everyone needs to respect their own decisions to dedicate their time and energy into making games, even if it's the most basic, cookie-cutter, over-done, re-hashed RPG. Understand and accept that it's not going to be groundbreaking. Take what you want out of the process, which should never be less than the fun of making a game, and move on. Learn and become better, or decide it's not for you.

This has been said before, but the core of the community as it stands now is the GD&R forum and screenshot topic, and in the same breath their inherent flaws are pointed out. Is it any different from the show-and-tell you remember in school? This is why I feel the concept of pride in the community is a little silly at this point. I don't mean any sort of disrespect (and WIP, Holb, Karsu, Kentona and the rest will attest to that), and I still visit RMN almost exclusively. I'm just saying I take from this community what I need, and try to give back to those who are challenging themselves and need guidance. I'm not so interested in playing others' games, but if I see something that shows effort and originality, I will gladly take the opportunity to view others' work as a source of inspiration and ideas.

It's ok to care about the community, but don't do it for self-validation. We're all here because we want to be, nothing more. You really want or need to see it grow? Then we need grow. I don't mean attracting more people. I mean maturing more as game creators. Strive to become better game designers, all the resources to do so are here. If you have fun making games, don't stop. Dare to expand your knowledge, and try new things. While I agree that using dated software is very limiting in terms of creating games with individual character, I also believe that limitation breeds creativity. Use RM2k/3 if you're comfortable with it or having fun, but please be cognizant of the fact that people aren't going to be excited to play an RPG with the same default battle system. Even with RM2k/3's limitations, try to implement creative ideas. Ask for help with eventing. Or, if you're daring enough, embrace one of the new RM engines and teach yourself how to script (not really as hard as you might think by reading existing code).

A lot of people brought up the point that the reason why we aren't playing each others' games is because the majority of them are poor and not worth our time. I know this isn't always the case (people also have said that they aren't so interested in playing others' games as much as making their own, I'm the same way), but we can't ignore the fact that many games do suffer from a lack of originality. Any RPG maker, by providing a detailed set of tools through which a game can be easily made, also enables products of minimal effort and creativity. We've been preoccupied with trying to turn demos into full games, make games shorter, establish realistic goals so that we can produce finished products. Is this the best mentality to have about making a game?

This isn't an invitation to design epic monstrosities beyond comprehension (nor a deterrent). This is about challenging yourself and each other to reach new creative heights, individually. Community growth will follow intrinsically. This will seem harsh to many, but I seriously don't believe that we will collectively feel a sense of pride by seeking validation from each other on our accomplishments. Seek a feeling of pride for yourselves. Whether or not you're mapping, writing stories, dialogue, composing music, anything at all, the challenge is always creativity. Instead of validating your efforts by asking the community whether or not an idea you have is creative, forge onward with it, and engage in community discussion when you need help to make it happen. It's ok to release a demo or a screenshot every once in a while in case you need the inspiration of other people's input, but we shouldn't be thriving on it.

Release Something! and Play Something! are great events because they establish limits which people use to fertilize creativity. This, in conjunction with central community exposure provides everyone with a look at the latest ideas and possibilities in game design. People aren't worried about the quality of their submissions so much at this point, they simply hold their breath, jump into the water, and ride the wave. This is the type of thing that has the community working for you to get the creative juices flowing.

That's all I can spew out now without falling asleep in my chair.

note to mog: why don't you at least respond to the long posts

This is not notepad.exe

Imma jump in again with my two pennies. I, personally, don't see a problem with the community as a whole. Yes, I tend not to post on GW so much, because the members there have started trying to be something they never were - funny.

The old timers of the community with experience in RM2k3 can have a somewhat elitist attitude and do indeed refuse to move on from 2k3, but they're happy producing kickass games in 2k3, whether everyone wants to play them or not.

If members choose to move to another engine, such as Game Maker, XP, VX or even C, then that's their choice. I don't think anyone should be trying to force new engines on people who just aren't interested. Craze, this means you, though you're admittedly not the only one. If we want to change, we'll change, but for now, we're very happy as we are.

People outside the RPG Maker community do look down on us, that's true. I wonder if any of us really care though? As a 360 owner I have a tendancy to look down on PS3s due to their lack of games, doesn't mean I'm right. And yes, I have played PS3, one of my old housemates had one. Even when I see him now he admits he plays the XBox a whole lot more than the PS3.

Back on topic, I like the members here, I honestly do. Usually there's some people I really hate and cannot stand, but I don't get that here. I also don't get the feeling that there are exclusive circles. Everyone seems willing to talk to, help, and give feedback to everyone else. Something I've not seen before.

Yes, there are one or two personal grudges, but nothing major. It rarely spills onto the forums and recent cases, such as Azn vs Asa didn't even cause any commotion aside from one topic.

I think the community's doing fine, and you'll only find fault by nitpicking and looking quite hard for them.

author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2884.msg56075#msg56075 date=1231912331
Note to self; never use the word 'pride' again because that word alone has made almost half the people in this topic completely misinterpret me.

Every time I read this topic title I think of Gay Pride Parades. But aprilschild summed up what I think you meant by 'Pride' anyway.

@SFLaValle: I will be the first admit that I am in the community primarily for recognition, praise and feedback. It makes me happy to know that people appreciate my efforts and are eager for more. But, being human, I try to reciprocate. I know how much feedback means to me, and I will gladly do what I can (like organizing the RS! Days) to get feedback to others. I want to do more, but haven't yet.