Full Games List
Featured Games
New Games
Reviews
Media
Images
Blogs
Game Updates
Images Feedback Summary
Game Design Highlights
Tutorials
Articles
Scripts
Utilities / Plugins
Resources
Engines
Engine Bulletins
What is Makerscore?
Past Events
Achievements
Misaos
Forums
Post History
Chat
New to RMN?
Full Store List
RMN Music Pack (free)
CAN FANGAMES BE GOOD?
Posts
aprilschild
View playlists
CloseI think fan-things can be good, but they just have a higher propensity for badness. People expect the fan-thing to live up to the original, but not only that, add something to the original so that it isn't just a clone.
In non-game terms, I once went to a bar to watch a friend play music. He is a little tone-deaf. He played an old song and it obviously sounded like a tone-deaf rendition of a famous song, and everyone knew when he screwed up. But when he played an original song, it was very good, because no matter what he did with it, that was the way it was meant to be played and sang.
I think original games are like that. If you do something different, that's the way you meant it (barring technical and personal issues with the game). But in fanworks, there's a higher pressure to get it right, and more people are expecting you to screw up.
In non-game terms, I once went to a bar to watch a friend play music. He is a little tone-deaf. He played an old song and it obviously sounded like a tone-deaf rendition of a famous song, and everyone knew when he screwed up. But when he played an original song, it was very good, because no matter what he did with it, that was the way it was meant to be played and sang.
I think original games are like that. If you do something different, that's the way you meant it (barring technical and personal issues with the game). But in fanworks, there's a higher pressure to get it right, and more people are expecting you to screw up.
hima
4237
Many doujin softs have proven this already. There are ton of good fangames out there :/
To name some....
- Queen Of Heart 98,99, Party Breaker
- Megamari
- Touhou Gensokyo Rensa
- Pocket Kanon Air
- Concealed Of The Conclusion
- Eternal Fight Zero
- Valkyrie Profile Fighting ( It was really old. Don't remember the actual name anymore)
- Big Bang Beat 1st Impression
I believe in Japan they allow people to make fangames without suing them ( unless in some serious cases ) is that it also increase the popularity of the original game. The more fangames made, the more popular the original will be. And it allow everyone to have their own version of the original game, hence making them like the original more and more, which also help boost the sales of the goods and other merchandise of the original game as well. I could be wrong though, but that how I see it.
All in all, good games are good games, whether it being a fangame or not. Sometime it's better to make a fangame instead of an original one then later find someone yelling "OMG You copy that game! !@#!$#!$" at your game though.
To name some....
- Queen Of Heart 98,99, Party Breaker
- Megamari
- Touhou Gensokyo Rensa
- Pocket Kanon Air
- Concealed Of The Conclusion
- Eternal Fight Zero
- Valkyrie Profile Fighting ( It was really old. Don't remember the actual name anymore)
- Big Bang Beat 1st Impression
I believe in Japan they allow people to make fangames without suing them ( unless in some serious cases ) is that it also increase the popularity of the original game. The more fangames made, the more popular the original will be. And it allow everyone to have their own version of the original game, hence making them like the original more and more, which also help boost the sales of the goods and other merchandise of the original game as well. I could be wrong though, but that how I see it.
All in all, good games are good games, whether it being a fangame or not. Sometime it's better to make a fangame instead of an original one then later find someone yelling "OMG You copy that game! !@#!$#!$" at your game though.
Haha, well if we go into doujins, there seems to be a higher standard set for them in Japan. Different cultures and all that. Of course, I'm talking from a gaijin's point of view; those of us here on the board who have lived in/currently live in Japan know more about this than me.
In fact, there's an entire subculture devoted to doujins in the fan world (I won't use otaku; that word has very bad connotations in Japan). Specialized doujinshi "circles" are made just for the development of these titles. From the ones I've seen, almost everything is done from scratch, including the programming.
It's not unlike the fanfiction subculture we have in the west; doujins are taken quite seriously. :)
edit: Slight correction: Advanced fanfiction subculture in the west. Just had to add that.
In fact, there's an entire subculture devoted to doujins in the fan world (I won't use otaku; that word has very bad connotations in Japan). Specialized doujinshi "circles" are made just for the development of these titles. From the ones I've seen, almost everything is done from scratch, including the programming.
It's not unlike the fanfiction subculture we have in the west; doujins are taken quite seriously. :)
edit: Slight correction: Advanced fanfiction subculture in the west. Just had to add that.
Nemau
30
I don't know what have been said, but I have some goods opinions about fangames and some bads :
Good :
I will never laught about a maker who make a fangame, because I know what a lot make fangames : it's because they discover with RM we can make "our FF6", "our Zelda" etc. (and it's for this reasons I want a lot of time to make fangames too ^^)
Bad :
A fangame is a not-custom-scenario-and-ambiance-game. And more : I don't like when makers make fangames for justify their utilisation of SNES (and others) resources. Oh, I prefer that and not Zelda's sprites's users who make a not-Zelda game. But, to me, the best is : full custom game. ^^
PS : I suppose my english is very bad, sorry xD (I'm french)
Good :
I will never laught about a maker who make a fangame, because I know what a lot make fangames : it's because they discover with RM we can make "our FF6", "our Zelda" etc. (and it's for this reasons I want a lot of time to make fangames too ^^)
Bad :
A fangame is a not-custom-scenario-and-ambiance-game. And more : I don't like when makers make fangames for justify their utilisation of SNES (and others) resources. Oh, I prefer that and not Zelda's sprites's users who make a not-Zelda game. But, to me, the best is : full custom game. ^^
PS : I suppose my english is very bad, sorry xD (I'm french)
MayorAnime
282
Well, I figure that I should probably throw in my two cents on this topic. I apologize in advance for the length of this reply, but this is not exactly a cut and dry topic. well, not for myself.
Personally, I feel that the very term 'fangame' is applied too broadly, mostly due to the term 'fanfic'. Since a fanfic, by definition, is 'a broadly-defined term for stories about characters or settings written by fans of the original work, rather than by the original creator', the concept of a fangame is given an equally broad range for definition. (Citing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_fiction)
The problem that one runs into when classifying something as 'fanfic' (or thusly 'fangame'), is that one implies that anything created which includes content not completely original is simply a fan work. And while this would not normally a problem, as many industries have made a living off of characters and settings not original (Castlevania, for one, has made an entire franchise off of the Dracula mythos), many fan works are simply praise to the original in the form of a literary work. By that, I mean that the generalized concept of a fan work is a fan showing his love for the original by creating his own work that nothing more than glorified praise.
There are also the fans who wish to pair characters together that the original author did not intend. In many cases this is a pairing that is either implied, or in no way possible, a concept the fanfic community calls slash. I avoid citing specific instances of same-sex pairings, because there are also age-play pairings, inter-species pairings, the list goes on. And most often, these pairings are made solely for gratification. This is what is commonly called slash.
It is because of two concepts of fan work for the sake of fan work, and unintended pairings for the sake of gratification, that anything labeled a fanfic, or a fangame, is automatically not taken seriously. Unfortunately, that completely undermines the set of works out there that utilize someone else's work in a manner that is not only appropriate, it is flattering.
Derivative works have been in existence for as long as literature has been scribed, and it is in the concept of the derivative work that a fanfic, or fangame, can find its own glory. A derivative work is defined as 'is an expressive creation that includes major, copyright-protected elements of an original, previously created first work'. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work) The concept of a derivative work is to utilize, characters, settings, etc that already exist as a vehicle of familiarity to tell one's own story. A good derivative work will, by its very nature, stay true to the copy-righted material that it borrows, only allowing the circumstances under which the copy-righted material interacts with the original material to alter the former.
An example of a 'fanfic' for FFVII:
-Cloud, Zack, and Sephiroth's adventures in SOLDIER during the days leading up to and during the Nibelhiem Mission. This includes the fateful night from Zack's perspective.
An example of a derivative work for FFVII:
-Cloud, Zack, and Sephiroth are United States Green Berets during the Korean War, and upon dispatch, sneak into the Pyounyang Underground, discovering a secret military facility that creates biological super soldiers. During the raid, Sephiroth discovers that one of the scientists is his father, Hojo, and through a chain of investigation, discovers that he is the prototype for this new genetically perfect solider. The story is told from Zack's perspective.
In the first instance, the literary work is simply retelling the original story from the fan's point of view. In the second instance, the literary work borrows the characters and ideas from FFVII, but puts an original and highly creative spin on things. Unfortunately, both would be called fanfics and thus delegated to the discount pile.
While I could cite more examples, I think I've made my point. Simply call a game a 'fangame' simply because it uses non-original characters, settings, etc, is a disservice to the creative process, and ultimately a discount to the author of the derivative work. While I agree that, eventually, a true artist MUST create something wholly original, many artists and authors who are celebrated as being geniuses, have started with derivative works.
(I do apologize for using Wikipedia to cite my sources, but I find it terribly convenient to use when needed to cite something in a hurry.)
Personally, I feel that the very term 'fangame' is applied too broadly, mostly due to the term 'fanfic'. Since a fanfic, by definition, is 'a broadly-defined term for stories about characters or settings written by fans of the original work, rather than by the original creator', the concept of a fangame is given an equally broad range for definition. (Citing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_fiction)
The problem that one runs into when classifying something as 'fanfic' (or thusly 'fangame'), is that one implies that anything created which includes content not completely original is simply a fan work. And while this would not normally a problem, as many industries have made a living off of characters and settings not original (Castlevania, for one, has made an entire franchise off of the Dracula mythos), many fan works are simply praise to the original in the form of a literary work. By that, I mean that the generalized concept of a fan work is a fan showing his love for the original by creating his own work that nothing more than glorified praise.
There are also the fans who wish to pair characters together that the original author did not intend. In many cases this is a pairing that is either implied, or in no way possible, a concept the fanfic community calls slash. I avoid citing specific instances of same-sex pairings, because there are also age-play pairings, inter-species pairings, the list goes on. And most often, these pairings are made solely for gratification. This is what is commonly called slash.
It is because of two concepts of fan work for the sake of fan work, and unintended pairings for the sake of gratification, that anything labeled a fanfic, or a fangame, is automatically not taken seriously. Unfortunately, that completely undermines the set of works out there that utilize someone else's work in a manner that is not only appropriate, it is flattering.
Derivative works have been in existence for as long as literature has been scribed, and it is in the concept of the derivative work that a fanfic, or fangame, can find its own glory. A derivative work is defined as 'is an expressive creation that includes major, copyright-protected elements of an original, previously created first work'. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work) The concept of a derivative work is to utilize, characters, settings, etc that already exist as a vehicle of familiarity to tell one's own story. A good derivative work will, by its very nature, stay true to the copy-righted material that it borrows, only allowing the circumstances under which the copy-righted material interacts with the original material to alter the former.
An example of a 'fanfic' for FFVII:
-Cloud, Zack, and Sephiroth's adventures in SOLDIER during the days leading up to and during the Nibelhiem Mission. This includes the fateful night from Zack's perspective.
An example of a derivative work for FFVII:
-Cloud, Zack, and Sephiroth are United States Green Berets during the Korean War, and upon dispatch, sneak into the Pyounyang Underground, discovering a secret military facility that creates biological super soldiers. During the raid, Sephiroth discovers that one of the scientists is his father, Hojo, and through a chain of investigation, discovers that he is the prototype for this new genetically perfect solider. The story is told from Zack's perspective.
In the first instance, the literary work is simply retelling the original story from the fan's point of view. In the second instance, the literary work borrows the characters and ideas from FFVII, but puts an original and highly creative spin on things. Unfortunately, both would be called fanfics and thus delegated to the discount pile.
While I could cite more examples, I think I've made my point. Simply call a game a 'fangame' simply because it uses non-original characters, settings, etc, is a disservice to the creative process, and ultimately a discount to the author of the derivative work. While I agree that, eventually, a true artist MUST create something wholly original, many artists and authors who are celebrated as being geniuses, have started with derivative works.
(I do apologize for using Wikipedia to cite my sources, but I find it terribly convenient to use when needed to cite something in a hurry.)
You raise a lot of very good points, Mayor. Just to reinforce the derivative work example you mentioned: this specific instance is also what people call an "alternate universe" setting, where you take the same characters and place them within a new environment, time period, dimension, etc. What is different in this alternate universe is simply the circumstances in which these characters experienced their life. One of many examples of derivative work.
One thing I must comment on is the "wholly original" part. While it is true that an author will eventually have to evolve to creating their own plots and characters, there is no way to avoid using cliches, tropes, or reusing ideas. "Nothing is original anymore" is an extreme quote, but it has a point: You cannot avoid doing something that has already been done before. Redesigning the wheel sometimes has its benefits, but if the regular old wheel suits you fine, use it.
I felt that clearup needed to be mentioned in case of a misunderstanding, because it's something I have encountered occasionally while delving into this stuff. Consider Star Trek and its use of humanoid-like aliens. It's a cliche that everyone knows is nearly impossible in reality, given the specific conditions on Earth that led to humanity, but how much sci-fi out there uses it just as liberally? Maybe with some modifications, but the idea is still there.
One thing I must comment on is the "wholly original" part. While it is true that an author will eventually have to evolve to creating their own plots and characters, there is no way to avoid using cliches, tropes, or reusing ideas. "Nothing is original anymore" is an extreme quote, but it has a point: You cannot avoid doing something that has already been done before. Redesigning the wheel sometimes has its benefits, but if the regular old wheel suits you fine, use it.
I felt that clearup needed to be mentioned in case of a misunderstanding, because it's something I have encountered occasionally while delving into this stuff. Consider Star Trek and its use of humanoid-like aliens. It's a cliche that everyone knows is nearly impossible in reality, given the specific conditions on Earth that led to humanity, but how much sci-fi out there uses it just as liberally? Maybe with some modifications, but the idea is still there.
MayorAnime
282
I am glad you brought up that there is nothing truly original, and that everyone, somehow, has to use something used once before. I believe I learned in school that there are only seven (or is it thirteen) original ideas, and everything else is a derivation of those ideas. (Sorry, I simple cannot cite that right now, so please just humor me). Therefore, yes, in some fashion, one's work is always derived from something someone else has done. But what makes it original is not the inspiration (because anything can inspire us), it's the application.
But you already said that, Atavus.:)
As for your comparison to Star Trek, I agree completely. Anyone with an education knows that with the very specific (bold face, underlined, etc) requirements needed for complex life, much less cognitive and intelligent life, any alien race out there will not likely be anything close to humanoid. But, for the sake off association, Gene Roddenberry created the humanoid races of Star Trek so that we could empathize with the non-Terran characters. After all, could we empathize and love Mister Spock if he were a ten foot tall puke green arthropod?
I seriously doubt it.
But you already said that, Atavus.:)
As for your comparison to Star Trek, I agree completely. Anyone with an education knows that with the very specific (bold face, underlined, etc) requirements needed for complex life, much less cognitive and intelligent life, any alien race out there will not likely be anything close to humanoid. But, for the sake off association, Gene Roddenberry created the humanoid races of Star Trek so that we could empathize with the non-Terran characters. After all, could we empathize and love Mister Spock if he were a ten foot tall puke green arthropod?
I seriously doubt it.
Shadowtext
120
author=hima link=topic=2946.msg57531#msg57531 date=1232607615Wow. I was just about to respond with how Eternal Fighter Zero was one of my favorite fighting games, and you went and beat me to mentioning it. Of course you know, this means war.
Many doujin softs have proven this already. There are ton of good fangames out there :/
To name some....
- Queen Of Heart 98,99, Party Breaker
- Megamari
- Touhou Gensokyo Rensa
- Pocket Kanon Air
- Concealed Of The Conclusion
- Eternal Fight Zero
- Valkyrie Profile Fighting ( It was really old. Don't remember the actual name anymore)
- Big Bang Beat 1st Impression
I believe in Japan they allow people to make fangames without suing them ( unless in some serious cases ) is that it also increase the popularity of the original game. The more fangames made, the more popular the original will be. And it allow everyone to have their own version of the original game, hence making them like the original more and more, which also help boost the sales of the goods and other merchandise of the original game as well. I could be wrong though, but that how I see it.
All in all, good games are good games, whether it being a fangame or not. Sometime it's better to make a fangame instead of an original one then later find someone yelling "OMG You copy that game! !@#!$#!$" at your game though.
To simply answer the question at hand. Yes. Yes they can. As long as it's not in the style in a direct sequel and we can play it without having to know all about the game it's based upon.
I think Final Fantasy Fangames can be good. All I've seen them do is take ideas from Final Fantasy (eg. Their game uses Moogles or something) but come up with their own original setting and characters. I'd love to see a fangame based of an RM game over a commercial one. I'd see that as more of a compliment to the creator.
But I don't agree with Remakes and games that feature Cloud Strife.
I think Final Fantasy Fangames can be good. All I've seen them do is take ideas from Final Fantasy (eg. Their game uses Moogles or something) but come up with their own original setting and characters. I'd love to see a fangame based of an RM game over a commercial one. I'd see that as more of a compliment to the creator.
But I don't agree with Remakes and games that feature Cloud Strife.
It's pretty easy to tell if you actually read people's posts.
Fangames are games made by fans that use the setting and characters of a previously created universe that they themselves did not create.
It's like how drawing a picture of Sonic or Mario or Samus would be fanart, and how writing a story about Cloud and Sephiroth having gaysex is a crappy yaoi fanfic.
Fangames are games made by fans that use the setting and characters of a previously created universe that they themselves did not create.
It's like how drawing a picture of Sonic or Mario or Samus would be fanart, and how writing a story about Cloud and Sephiroth having gaysex is a crappy yaoi fanfic.
Sasuke
0
Like any game it all comes down to 1 thing, Gameplay!
If gameplay is bad then it's a bad game like any original game, if it's fun it'll be a good game. Though adding original ideas to a fangame wouldn't hurt.
If gameplay is bad then it's a bad game like any original game, if it's fun it'll be a good game. Though adding original ideas to a fangame wouldn't hurt.
Ashramaru
39
Fan Games can be good, I just find them a bit dull in content and the features are a bit unoriginal. If someone were to finish their own original fan game and invest time into it, I believe it would come out nice.
iishenron
1105
I remember when The Underdogs considered TTHW a fangame because it used rips and was made in Rm2k.
author=Karsuman link=topic=2946.msg60188#msg60188 date=1233617421
and how writing a story about Cloud and Sephiroth having gaysex
Please no.
MODIFY: Also I hate fangames because I have made two and only, like, one person played each. :<
I think a fangame can definitely be good and I don't their quality is generally any less abysmal than the typical "original IP" we see released.
That said, if you are going to invest the time and effort into making a fangame, you should probably redirect that energy in creating your own universe.
That said, if you are going to invest the time and effort into making a fangame, you should probably redirect that energy in creating your own universe.
author=Craze link=topic=2946.msg64199#msg64199 date=1235945002
I have made two and only, like, one person played each. :<
Where are they?
AznChipmunk
4613
author=Sam link=topic=2946.msg57286#msg57286 date=1232536089
GamingW are currently having a fangame making competition
It's not actually a GW contest.
Also, fangames have the potential to be, along with most ideas. However, generally the people who try to make them lack the originality to make them interesting enough for the fangame itself to have any value. And honestly, I would much much much rather play an original game. The idea of fangame is a turnoff, even.
author=ChaosProductions link=topic=2946.msg64500#msg64500 date=1236046814author=Craze link=topic=2946.msg64199#msg64199 date=1235945002
I have made two and only, like, one person played each. :<
Where are they?
One is DRESS and can be found on iishenron's website (queen's court; not the gay bar). It is missing a teleport in the jail dungeon, so look for that prior to playing! Hmm. Maybe I'll make a remix version for RS!VI? The game is 100% complete and features zombies!
The other one features a huge amount of custom graphics and multiple fantastical dungeons including a man-eating tower and Shiva's icy lair (also house to the Time Crystal and a Giant Enemy Crab boss battle). It's not complete, but what's done is pretty epic. http://www.rpgmaker.net/~craze/FFResources.zip
