Full Games List
Featured Games
New Games
Reviews
Media
Images
Blogs
Game Updates
Images Feedback Summary
Game Design Highlights
Tutorials
Articles
Scripts
Utilities / Plugins
Resources
Engines
Engine Bulletins
What is Makerscore?
Past Events
Achievements
Misaos
Forums
Post History
Chat
New to RMN?
Full Store List
RMN Music Pack (free)
YOUR GAME SUCKS
Posts
halibabica
View playlists
Closeauthor=Nightblade link=topic=3818.msg79173#msg79173 date=1244512331That, I can agree with. But I still think cutscenes are useful. Telling a story without them is...just a different way of telling a story! Nothing wrong with alternatives. But telling a story without them is a lot trickier, especially depending on the kind of story you're trying to convey.
It's still possible to convey a story without the use of cutscenes.
Dark Gaia
3474
If you can tell a story without cut scenes, then that is excellent. Many survival horrors use this method and tell their stories through clues and second hand narratives you find along the way. I did this with The Beyond and One Night, but they were fairly simple stories. I class an "epic" story as a literal epic, with lots of character development and twists, emotional upheaval etc, and with RPG Maker it is really hard to express such a story without cutscenes. Final Fantasy is an example of a game which NEEDS cutscenes. If you played, say FFVII without cutscenes, there wouldn't be any story to it.
I believe in making cut scenes engaging enough to the player that they are drawn in. Basically, I'm a story junkie, my incentive to play a game is to resolve the story, and I make games that I personally would like to play, not for others so of course I feel that in order to tell a story I need to use cut scenes. I don't overuse them, but I feel that they are needed. I believe in always balancing out the cutscenes with gameplay, I will always follow up a long cut scene with a long burst of gameplay.
I believe in making cut scenes engaging enough to the player that they are drawn in. Basically, I'm a story junkie, my incentive to play a game is to resolve the story, and I make games that I personally would like to play, not for others so of course I feel that in order to tell a story I need to use cut scenes. I don't overuse them, but I feel that they are needed. I believe in always balancing out the cutscenes with gameplay, I will always follow up a long cut scene with a long burst of gameplay.
Scribble
1
Final Fantasy didn't need cutscenes. No RPG NEEDS cutscenes. Anything can be playable/interactive, regardless of how 'deep' the plot tries to be.
Someone should give me a cutscene that was effective BECAUSE it was a cutscene.
Someone should give me a cutscene that was effective BECAUSE it was a cutscene.
The intro to FFVII.
It was effective as a cutscene since, as a video with higher resolution using prerendered 3D graphics, it was much more visually immersive and entertaining than a straight-up interactive gameplay design.
At the time, it was that blow-you-away-with-awesome hooks the game threw at you to get you to play the game.
It was effective as a cutscene since, as a video with higher resolution using prerendered 3D graphics, it was much more visually immersive and entertaining than a straight-up interactive gameplay design.
At the time, it was that blow-you-away-with-awesome hooks the game threw at you to get you to play the game.
Scribble
1
author=kentona link=topic=3818.msg79306#msg79306 date=1244568588
The intro to FFVII.
It was effective as a cutscene since, as a video with higher resolution using prerendered 3D graphics, it was much more visually immersive and entertaining than a straight-up interactive gameplay design.
At the time, it was that blow-you-away-with-awesome hooks the game threw at you to get you to play the game.
Not going out of my way to disagree, but I do. I think the FF7 world as presented in that cutscene was just trickery.
Mario 64's opening 'cutscene' was better. It teased you with the new shiny world with Lakitu at the beginning, and then as Mario, let you explore it exactly as it was.
Tonfa
150
Exactly. If you had every scene as playable, you can bet at least one third of the players would be jumping around or looking at a wall/own party members/shiny object while missing a plot-relevant stabbing or some such.
Nightblade
2723
author=Tonfa link=topic=3818.msg79364#msg79364 date=1244580645
Would you mind elaborating? I'm curious.
The Half Life 2 developers took great care to draw the players eye to the important things going on in the game. The measures they took vary from scene to scene, so it's difficult to explain each one. I'll give one example though.
Spoiler from Half Life 2 : EP2
At the end of Half Life 2: Episode 2 your character is restrained by what can be best described as a psychic monstrosity. You're kind of pinned to wall and you have limited capacity to move around. In this state, you're helplessly forced to watch a certain main character die. After said character dies, your turn arrives. The monstrosity sticks it's tendril like appendage towards your face, all while you have limited control of your character. No stupid QTEs, no "PAUSE TO SKIP SCENE" tripe. The game essentially immerses you in what's happening, there are no breaks.
Tonfa
150
Sounds very well implemented, though essentially what you're describing is a cutscene from the first person angle with very limited interactivity.
Scribble
1
author=Fallen-Griever link=topic=3818.msg79319#msg79319 date=1244574222
Cutscenes that work best as cutscenes are the ones the user would not benefit from getting to hit a button in. For instance, in Fallout 3 I never thought the gameplay was better just because I got to look around whilst someone was talking. I was focusing on what they had to say.
Many cutscenes would actually be worse if they were "interactive". Final Fantasy VIII's opening cutscene, for instance, would only be worse if you made it interactive. Some things just work better as "movies".
Yes, I am biased, I love that game.
author=Tonfa link=topic=3818.msg79349#msg79349 date=1244579182
Exactly. If you had every scene as playable, you can bet at least one third of the players would be jumping around or looking at a wall/own party members/shiny object while missing a plot-relevant stabbing or some such.
Buuuut interactivity does not have to be about being able to move around randomly, especially when you can't achieve anything important while you're moving around randomly. There's *other* ways to do it. If something about the plot is inherently cutscenish, like your captain giving you orders, then you just have to think a bit more. Half-Life 2 is not the be and end all of interactivity!
Final Fantasy VIII's opening only works as a movie because it IS a movie. Is that opening actually really necessary? I haven't played through the whole of the game, but that opening just looks like a trailer. I don't get the point of that, especially since the different bits of the storyline it's showing only refer to future cutscenes.
I think that's terrible, to be honest.
Thinking about it now, I think cutscenes CAN work. Like the Mario 64 one. And the Shenmue 2 one (Not the very first opening, but when he gets off the boat) is a great cutscene.
I don't wanna just talk about it. When my motivation isn't at rock bottom, I'm going to try and explore any ideas I have regarding interactivity. May not get it right away (or at all) but I think RPG Maker VX is flexible enuff to do that.
"Director Steven Spielberg, an avid video gamer, has criticized the use of cut scenes in games, calling them intrusive, and feels making story flow naturally into the gameplay is a challenge for future game developers."
hmmm...interesting.
hmmm...interesting.
I liked the part in Half Life 2 when somebody was trying to drop plot but I was too busy trying to jump on somebody's head to care.
Agreeing with Shenmue 2 though, that game was done well (for the whole three hours I played it
). I can't think/explain of any good examples though.
One good example of an interactive cutscene would be the trial in Neverwinter Nights 2. Your actions leading up to the trial affect what people say about you, you can use your diplomatic (aka diplomacy, intimidate, bluff, perform) skills to defend yourself from accusations, and there's even a 'fuck this skip it' option that includes an ice burn against your accuser.
Agreeing with Shenmue 2 though, that game was done well (for the whole three hours I played it
One good example of an interactive cutscene would be the trial in Neverwinter Nights 2. Your actions leading up to the trial affect what people say about you, you can use your diplomatic (aka diplomacy, intimidate, bluff, perform) skills to defend yourself from accusations, and there's even a 'fuck this skip it' option that includes an ice burn against your accuser.
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=3818.msg78742#msg78742 date=1244258734
To chip in my thoughts, I never minded sitting down and watching a few minutes of a cutscene, even if there isn't any *GASP* buttons to press. I think it's because I don't have attention deficit disorder.
Thank you, Feld. I agree with this and don't see anyone else can't have this same opinion.
Mr. Y
300
Craze, I feel like I have the same problem; I have a short attention span with amateur games that seem too conventional, doing near-imitations of the games that the creators enjoy. Heck, I used to play lots of indie games, but now I kind of reserve my time for more creative, shorter RPGs.
I feel like this is kind of my own "fault" (if it's anybody's fault), however, just for wanting something that there isn't necessarily a lot of. I think the gamemaking community can be healthier with a bunch of people making games they love, based off games they're imitating, rather than banging their heads against the wall for unique ideas (which, I think, would cause some to stop gamemaking altogether).
And it's honestly a bit harsh to tell someone their game sucks because 50 other games have done the same thing. There can be a bunch of games that are really, intrinsically good even if they all seem lame by way of comparison with one another. If a person makes a really good game (or, more likely, just a demo) for him or herself, that person ought to feel a sense of accomplishment.
I feel like this is kind of my own "fault" (if it's anybody's fault), however, just for wanting something that there isn't necessarily a lot of. I think the gamemaking community can be healthier with a bunch of people making games they love, based off games they're imitating, rather than banging their heads against the wall for unique ideas (which, I think, would cause some to stop gamemaking altogether).
And it's honestly a bit harsh to tell someone their game sucks because 50 other games have done the same thing. There can be a bunch of games that are really, intrinsically good even if they all seem lame by way of comparison with one another. If a person makes a really good game (or, more likely, just a demo) for him or herself, that person ought to feel a sense of accomplishment.
Nightblade
2723
author=Tonfa link=topic=3818.msg79375#msg79375 date=1244582331
Sounds very well implemented, though essentially what you're describing is a cutscene from the first person angle with very limited interactivity.
Perhaps, though that approach was only used once. There were other, more subtle approaches in the game.
Scribble
1
author=Mitsuhide_The_Vagrant link=topic=3818.msg79452#msg79452 date=1244598378::)
Thank you, Feld. I agree with this and don't see anyone else can't have this same opinion.
author=GreatRedSpirit link=topic=3818.msg79385#msg79385 date=1244584660
Agreeing with Shenmue 2 though, that game was done well (for the whole three hours I played it). I can't think/explain of any good examples though.
And that reminds me of something to do with interactive cutscenes. QTE!
(People hate those now, but I like how games like Indigo Prophecy used them)
author=Mr. Y link=topic=3818.msg79454#msg79454 date=1244598498
And it's honestly a bit harsh to tell someone their game sucks because 50 other games have done the same thing. There can be a bunch of games that are really, intrinsically good even if they all seem lame by way of comparison with one another. If a person makes a really good game (or, more likely, just a demo) for him or herself, that person ought to feel a sense of accomplishment.
Well, I wanted people to get riled up enough to post in the topic. =D
Also, I play good completed traditional RPGs like Hero's Realm, Demon Legacy, Legacies of Dondoran, Last Scenario, etc. I just don't really promote most of them while they're in development.
Dark Gaia
3474
Telling a deep story with minimal use of cutscenes is possible. The Half Life series is an example, as are many survival horror games which require you to piece the story together yourself as a lot of cutscenes are avoided in those games (they can ruin the atmosphere).
However, some games DO need cutscenes. Let's look at Metal Gear Solid...
Anyway, this topic isn't about cutscenes anyway, it's about people who start making epic RPGs and never finish. I agree that's one thing I hate in the RM community. I always like to play a full game over a demo.
However, some games DO need cutscenes. Let's look at Metal Gear Solid...
Anyway, this topic isn't about cutscenes anyway, it's about people who start making epic RPGs and never finish. I agree that's one thing I hate in the RM community. I always like to play a full game over a demo.
