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WHAT MAKES STEREOTYPICAL JRPGS TERRIBLE?
Posts
S. F. LaValle
1069
S. F. LaValle
View playlists
CloseGames like SO4 insult my intelligence, even though I played it for a good while. I think the problem with many jRPG's, which has been facilitated by the fact that jRPG's are mass-produced, is that they have a formula.
I'm a game developer, and I want to make an RPG (because people buy them and they are profitable). What do I need? First, I need a battle system that has a unique twist. Now, I need characters to fill out the variety of roles for this battle system. Then, I need to differentiate these characters based on a list of archetypes so that there is a full range of character personalities (and physical traits, and even species) represented. After that, I get to develop a plot which provides different worlds or environments in which these characters are encountered, so that I can knock out diverse locales and party formation at the same time.
Now comes time to write the story and connect it all. Any dolt with an imagination can create a sequence of events that connect all of these elements together (coherency optional), so I will implement the following story-telling devices to paint it all up like a real story:
1) Romance - So much adversity can be triumphed with the power of love! Players will feel empowered by the fact that the game's female love interest can handle any trial she's invariably placed within with this powerful phrase: "As long as I'm with you..."
2) Amnesia - It's incredibly inefficient to develop a character's history that's merely recited when the need arises. If you're gonna take the time to flesh out a character's past, it's best to make the affected character learn about all of it at the same time the player does. Think of the eventing possibilities; emotional storytelling without needing to advance the main plotline because we're going back in time instead of forward. That's like a free 5-10 experience levels, as well as 1-2 dungeons you've shoehorned in to the game.
3) Descartes - Since humanity is threatened anyway, and because selfless heroes of legend putting an end to evil without an impure thought is one-dimensional and boring, why not throw into question why we exist at all? War is inevitable, we bring it upon ourselves. Mankind cannot change. We are doomed to suffering and death. The big bad embraces this, why shouldn't I? I'm so deep that I require a romance subplot and an epic final battle to realize what everyone else already inherently knew (boring): life is pretty rad.
Sound familiar? There's obviously tons more tropes that are thrown around for added depth. In your typical mass-produced jRPG, these elements are like, the drop-shadow, bevel, emboss, and lens-flares of story telling. They are used to "pimp my story" for one simple fact: great stories are not required to make great games (or at least great-selling ones). People are perfectly satisfied with cardboard dialogue with no personality or purpose as long as the girl's boobs are swaying in her ridiculously detailed, colorful, and skimpy outfit.
These companies sell games because they are aware that they are selling games. People have come to expect amazingly beautiful visuals because that's what the hardware is created to do. XBox and Playstation don't tout incredible hardware-accelerated story dynamics because it's not what games are about.
For people that take this topic to be an attack against jRPG's, don't let it get to you. Game companies care less about your dedication than you think. They are in business to make money, and their reputation is measured in sales. They know they've pleased the gaming community when they read their account statements. That being said, there are things that can be applied to ALL genres of games made in ALL parts of the world. Want to make money in America? Make an FPS! Give it lots of scripted events and cool weapons, and make it very pretty. You won't be making the next Halo, but you will have made money.
We are a community that is largely assembled based off of our common interest and love for jRPG's. We're bashing ourselves for a good reason; to stir a pot of stale games and bring attention to things that can make our games better.
I'm a game developer, and I want to make an RPG (because people buy them and they are profitable). What do I need? First, I need a battle system that has a unique twist. Now, I need characters to fill out the variety of roles for this battle system. Then, I need to differentiate these characters based on a list of archetypes so that there is a full range of character personalities (and physical traits, and even species) represented. After that, I get to develop a plot which provides different worlds or environments in which these characters are encountered, so that I can knock out diverse locales and party formation at the same time.
Now comes time to write the story and connect it all. Any dolt with an imagination can create a sequence of events that connect all of these elements together (coherency optional), so I will implement the following story-telling devices to paint it all up like a real story:
1) Romance - So much adversity can be triumphed with the power of love! Players will feel empowered by the fact that the game's female love interest can handle any trial she's invariably placed within with this powerful phrase: "As long as I'm with you..."
2) Amnesia - It's incredibly inefficient to develop a character's history that's merely recited when the need arises. If you're gonna take the time to flesh out a character's past, it's best to make the affected character learn about all of it at the same time the player does. Think of the eventing possibilities; emotional storytelling without needing to advance the main plotline because we're going back in time instead of forward. That's like a free 5-10 experience levels, as well as 1-2 dungeons you've shoehorned in to the game.
3) Descartes - Since humanity is threatened anyway, and because selfless heroes of legend putting an end to evil without an impure thought is one-dimensional and boring, why not throw into question why we exist at all? War is inevitable, we bring it upon ourselves. Mankind cannot change. We are doomed to suffering and death. The big bad embraces this, why shouldn't I? I'm so deep that I require a romance subplot and an epic final battle to realize what everyone else already inherently knew (boring): life is pretty rad.
Sound familiar? There's obviously tons more tropes that are thrown around for added depth. In your typical mass-produced jRPG, these elements are like, the drop-shadow, bevel, emboss, and lens-flares of story telling. They are used to "pimp my story" for one simple fact: great stories are not required to make great games (or at least great-selling ones). People are perfectly satisfied with cardboard dialogue with no personality or purpose as long as the girl's boobs are swaying in her ridiculously detailed, colorful, and skimpy outfit.
These companies sell games because they are aware that they are selling games. People have come to expect amazingly beautiful visuals because that's what the hardware is created to do. XBox and Playstation don't tout incredible hardware-accelerated story dynamics because it's not what games are about.
For people that take this topic to be an attack against jRPG's, don't let it get to you. Game companies care less about your dedication than you think. They are in business to make money, and their reputation is measured in sales. They know they've pleased the gaming community when they read their account statements. That being said, there are things that can be applied to ALL genres of games made in ALL parts of the world. Want to make money in America? Make an FPS! Give it lots of scripted events and cool weapons, and make it very pretty. You won't be making the next Halo, but you will have made money.
We are a community that is largely assembled based off of our common interest and love for jRPG's. We're bashing ourselves for a good reason; to stir a pot of stale games and bring attention to things that can make our games better.
WolfCoder
3554
... We're bashing ourselves for a good reason; to stir a pot of stale games and bring attention to things that can make our games better.
That's the wisest thing I've heard here all week. Also, don't forget that cliches are easier to make into quests (this is a reference for Oblivion and a statement taken out of the Elder Scrolls Construction Set Tutorial). They need to make something interesting, but it can't be a crazy story because they have to make it into a quest.
I always put GamePlay first over story. That's why I played the Grandia games- try following the story with a straight face. It's kind of stupid and predictable but for some reason you at least want to know what happened next. But the battle systems were incredible. Except for Grandia X-Treme, that game was terrible.
Lots of these games also seem character-driven. I've played some jRPGs where I absolutely love some characters while the overall story might be incoherent. It's where you make the characters first and design them to be likeable enough so you have fun playing as them.
What usually makes me quit a game really varies from game to game.
Here are a number of things that have made me stop playing games:
1) Outrageous slowdown.
2) Terrible characters.
3) Terrible dialogue.
4) Bad story execution.
5) Bad gameplay execution.
6) All-around mediocrity.
7) Glitchiness.
8) Badly designed/overly lengthy cutscenes (often hand-in-hand)
9) Stupid plot twists/devolving stories.
10) Game got boring.
11) Shoddy puzzle/minigame design.
I personally find that I can keep on playing as long as a game continues to excel at doing something right, even if it does a few things badly.
Here are a number of things that have made me stop playing games:
1) Outrageous slowdown.
2) Terrible characters.
3) Terrible dialogue.
4) Bad story execution.
5) Bad gameplay execution.
6) All-around mediocrity.
7) Glitchiness.
8) Badly designed/overly lengthy cutscenes (often hand-in-hand)
9) Stupid plot twists/devolving stories.
10) Game got boring.
11) Shoddy puzzle/minigame design.
I personally find that I can keep on playing as long as a game continues to excel at doing something right, even if it does a few things badly.
post=94941So... where's the other nine?post=94852Heh heh...
FFIIor IV fans,
We all know ff2 only has like 10 or so fans.
Shove it, please.
Shall I elaborate on how sad this is? No, I actually have work to do.
post=94941
We all know ff2 only has like 10 or so fans.
Shall I elaborate on how sad this is? No, I actually have work to do.
D-Bones
227
post=94959post=94941So... where's the other nine?post=94852Heh heh...
FFIIor IV fans,
We all know ff2 only has like 10 or so fans.
I'm one. I was just commenting on how FF2 isn't popular.
@Karsuman: The sad thing is, all the things you listed are pretty much the reasons why almost all modern games blow.
*cough* cue flaming...
*cough* cue flaming...
beakmanthegreat
130
post=94965
beakman: I like it when games are fun.
Are you saying this game WOULDN't be fun?
An RPG where you play as a total nerd going around trying not to get beat up by bullies as you try to find the nine other FFII fans in your city? The final boss would be the comic book store owner who refuses to sell your "party" all ten of his copies of FFII NES. It would be epic.
beakmanthegreat
130
It all depends on how they are written.
"if you mind what the PLAYER wants to see, therein lies the successful key.
A big ego is not "Da Bomb"; your audience is never wrong."
What it means, is, if you make your game based on what OTHER people would want to see, not neccesarily what YOU would, then your game has a higher chance of success.
"if you mind what the PLAYER wants to see, therein lies the successful key.
A big ego is not "Da Bomb"; your audience is never wrong."
What it means, is, if you make your game based on what OTHER people would want to see, not neccesarily what YOU would, then your game has a higher chance of success.
beakmanthegreat
130
Hell, I hardly want it. I'm not gonna waste even tewenty minutes writing a "joke" game.
If I did, It wouldn't be about an in-joke I came across on a forum, it'd be completely random shit with "cameos" of characters from other games and there would be a town where everyone's name is Bob and they all tell you to "go talk to bob at (place in town) to learn more". (It'd be optional, of course.)
If I did, It wouldn't be about an in-joke I came across on a forum, it'd be completely random shit with "cameos" of characters from other games and there would be a town where everyone's name is Bob and they all tell you to "go talk to bob at (place in town) to learn more". (It'd be optional, of course.)
post=94941post=94852Heh heh...
FFIIor IV fans,
We all know ff2 only has like 10 or so fans.
Even if FFII did have only ten fans (and I don't mean literally), that's not what I was getting at. I meant that no matter what, the amount of FFVII fans could easily topple the amount of fans of any other FF game.
And it's not like saying "FFII has fans" is an invalid statement.
