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OVERSEXUALIZATION OF FEMALES IN GAMES
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Liberty
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CloseRatty524
> Unless they are going to some club, girls will almost always dress decently in public, nothing that shows the bare, full midriff.
Where in the hell do you live? I see women in the middle of winter wearing the skimpiest clothes all the damn time. Sometimes I wonder how they aren't smurfs.
Or maybe that's just where I live...
As for the romance in games thing... I don't know. Most of the games I've ever played had romantic plots. Maybe they aren't the main plot, but they are most definitely there, and none too subtly, either. Then again, I mostly play RPGs.
Fractal Advocate
1252
While I've seen a fair bit of sexualization of women in games, I can't say I've seen that much in RM games.
Maybe I just haven't been playing the right RM games, though.
The two with screenshots are the only ones I remember, and I remember thinking they were rather well done, particularly Telia - wanting to get into someone's pants is a pretty good reason to randomly tag along with them. I don't see a few highly sexualized characters as a problem, and I don't remember the other women in those games being like that.
Maybe I just haven't been playing the right RM games, though.
The two with screenshots are the only ones I remember, and I remember thinking they were rather well done, particularly Telia - wanting to get into someone's pants is a pretty good reason to randomly tag along with them. I don't see a few highly sexualized characters as a problem, and I don't remember the other women in those games being like that.
Mr.Nemo
1295
post=99464
Fact of life:
> Most girls often do not initiate relationships with the opposite sex, especially when they haven't known that person for a while.
> Unless they are going to some club, girls will almost always dress decently in public, nothing that shows the bare, full midriff.
> Girls have just a variety of personalities as men do, not just "Shy and peaceful" or "bad tempered and whiny".
facto 4 lief:
> You'd be amazed at how many exceptions to that rule I can count on my fingers.
> During the summer, the countless amounts of bikini-wearing girls (I do not live by the sea) and see-through tops that has passed my unfortunate nerd-vision has made me realize that womens tits aren't really THAT exciting (oh, who am I kidding)
> Man, have you ever talked to more women than one and that one on a period? Okay, maybe not, but the first thing I saw when I read this was even more straight up deviations from this "fact".
WolfCoder
3554
I'm a very strong true feminist (gender-equality, not female supremacist like those other 'creatures' who insist on calling themselves 'feminists'). I also accept (not merely tolerate) anything more complicated or different than typical heterosexuality. There are a ton of things at my very core that are adamantly ingrained and related to those issues.
But when I make a video game, I make a video game. People are people. Males are people, females are people. They're supposed to talk, act, dress, and respond like people. Here's a good tip, just write their dialog like anyone else, because they are anyone else. In a video game, I'm not going to use the term 'human', but in games, movies, or anything, I enjoy people acting like people. Everyone has their personality, and the personality is not supposed to have anything to do with their gender (you might try and state biological reasons or some other crap like that, but let's face it- you're not going to get through to someone as iron-minded as me when it comes to things like feminism).
I could drown my characters' dialog in political and social issues, but no, when I write a video game I write a video game. It would be just as bad as if I did the 'oversexualization' too, people should talk like people. Everyone gets sad, angry, happy, tired, annnoyed, etc. Everyone has their way of doing and responding to things. Over-acting a gender role will make your story reek of Anime. I like Anime, but I hate Anime that reeks. Smells bad. I like it when people in Anime talk like people.
In every person beats a heart of a person and the warmth of life (assuming they are capable of homeostasis and require a heart to circulate oxygen to their vital organs), and a mind. They talk to people because there's something they want that person to know. So people talk like people.
I could go on but I've repeated two important things over and over and over again and the rest of this post would just look like that.
But when I make a video game, I make a video game. People are people. Males are people, females are people. They're supposed to talk, act, dress, and respond like people. Here's a good tip, just write their dialog like anyone else, because they are anyone else. In a video game, I'm not going to use the term 'human', but in games, movies, or anything, I enjoy people acting like people. Everyone has their personality, and the personality is not supposed to have anything to do with their gender (you might try and state biological reasons or some other crap like that, but let's face it- you're not going to get through to someone as iron-minded as me when it comes to things like feminism).
I could drown my characters' dialog in political and social issues, but no, when I write a video game I write a video game. It would be just as bad as if I did the 'oversexualization' too, people should talk like people. Everyone gets sad, angry, happy, tired, annnoyed, etc. Everyone has their way of doing and responding to things. Over-acting a gender role will make your story reek of Anime. I like Anime, but I hate Anime that reeks. Smells bad. I like it when people in Anime talk like people.
In every person beats a heart of a person and the warmth of life (assuming they are capable of homeostasis and require a heart to circulate oxygen to their vital organs), and a mind. They talk to people because there's something they want that person to know. So people talk like people.
I could go on but I've repeated two important things over and over and over again and the rest of this post would just look like that.
sidetrack: I know that "feminist" is about gender equality, but what is the equivalent for "race"? Because I don't think "racist" works for the promotion of race equality.
WolfCoder
3554
I know. I sometimes just say gender-equalist because the name 'feminist' implies the same connotation as 'racist'. The term was coined because of the traditional gender roles being male-dominant (in most places). I should just say gender-equalist.
I don't call myself a race-equalist because it's implied. You might be some weird fictional neko-mimi character in an Anime, but you really don't have to say NYAA after every sentence. Or overact being a feline. Real cats don't overact that much. If you want an example, let's look at that SO4 cutscene. "MRRWWAAAAWWW :3 CHICKEEEEEEEN". Real cats aren't that retarded. See how I compare 'oversexualization' to it being a form of just over-acting?
Pretty much, sure your race and gender determines cultural and/or biological instincts (I would have to say the gender differences are purely cultural unless you get down to the fact that gender exists to enforce genetic diversity in the first place) but people are people.
I don't call myself a race-equalist because it's implied. You might be some weird fictional neko-mimi character in an Anime, but you really don't have to say NYAA after every sentence. Or overact being a feline. Real cats don't overact that much. If you want an example, let's look at that SO4 cutscene. "MRRWWAAAAWWW :3 CHICKEEEEEEEN". Real cats aren't that retarded. See how I compare 'oversexualization' to it being a form of just over-acting?
Pretty much, sure your race and gender determines cultural and/or biological instincts (I would have to say the gender differences are purely cultural unless you get down to the fact that gender exists to enforce genetic diversity in the first place) but people are people.
SovanJedi
320
What was the name of that RM2K game that was really oversexualized but was trying to be serious about it? It had some white-haired girl and EVERY singl female character in the included charsets had enlarged breasts? And in the battles all the female enemies had skimpy clothing on but the men were fully-armoured?
The worst thing is, when that game wanted to it could actually be quite moving. There was one scene with the main female protagonist getting beaten to death in the forest and she never retaliated. There were also other scenes around dinner tables that were good, as well as, erm, full-on anal sex in the prison cells. I'm sure someone out here would remember the name of it, but it's the very definition of an oversexualized wet dream in amateur RPG format.
The worst thing is, when that game wanted to it could actually be quite moving. There was one scene with the main female protagonist getting beaten to death in the forest and she never retaliated. There were also other scenes around dinner tables that were good, as well as, erm, full-on anal sex in the prison cells. I'm sure someone out here would remember the name of it, but it's the very definition of an oversexualized wet dream in amateur RPG format.
maladroithim
1495
I haven't read the whole thread since I'm just dropping in.
But oversexualization of women in games pisses me off. I really don't like it when an otherwise good game with generally good writing and great art direction is ruined by GIANT TITS in your face. For example, Lost Odyssey was great and visually beautiful etc, but one of the main characters had these giant boobs that were always jiggling all over the place and were veiny etc. It was really distracting and turned a lot of the cutscenes (many of which were very dramatically sound) into big jokes.
It makes me feel like video games aren't for me anymore . . . they're for teenagers, who want violence and pornography and want it at the same time (at least that's what the marketing people think).
But I guess it goes back to comic books, right? When I was a kid I never really realized how sexualized all of the X-Men women were. Now that I'm older, I can't take comics like that seriously anymore because there are giant boobs all over the place.
It's not the same as giant muscles, giant swords, etc. Those are expressions of power and strength. Some men equate physical power with sexual power, and that's probably an undercurrent. But at the same time, giant muscles aren't considered a purely sexual symbol the way that giant boobs are.
Also I wish that more video games and comics had guys with giant bulges in their pants.
But oversexualization of women in games pisses me off. I really don't like it when an otherwise good game with generally good writing and great art direction is ruined by GIANT TITS in your face. For example, Lost Odyssey was great and visually beautiful etc, but one of the main characters had these giant boobs that were always jiggling all over the place and were veiny etc. It was really distracting and turned a lot of the cutscenes (many of which were very dramatically sound) into big jokes.
It makes me feel like video games aren't for me anymore . . . they're for teenagers, who want violence and pornography and want it at the same time (at least that's what the marketing people think).
But I guess it goes back to comic books, right? When I was a kid I never really realized how sexualized all of the X-Men women were. Now that I'm older, I can't take comics like that seriously anymore because there are giant boobs all over the place.
It's not the same as giant muscles, giant swords, etc. Those are expressions of power and strength. Some men equate physical power with sexual power, and that's probably an undercurrent. But at the same time, giant muscles aren't considered a purely sexual symbol the way that giant boobs are.
Also I wish that more video games and comics had guys with giant bulges in their pants.
deboo
85
People want their games to sell, and it's an easy way to make gamers buy. It's an unfortunate trap(eheh, not the word im looking for but nevermind..) game makers fall into. I find it hard to take characters seriously when they're running around the arctic practically naked..
This is why i liked Yuna's character design(from X, not X-2..that was just silly), she actually looked presentable. It is a bit annoying, but i don't think it's a huge problem. Unless the females personality's all fit into those stupid categories i find in too many games. As though they aren't even human. I don't think RM games are too bad for that though..well not the ones i've played.
This is why i liked Yuna's character design(from X, not X-2..that was just silly), she actually looked presentable. It is a bit annoying, but i don't think it's a huge problem. Unless the females personality's all fit into those stupid categories i find in too many games. As though they aren't even human. I don't think RM games are too bad for that though..well not the ones i've played.
Darken
3952
Yeah this topic is kind of dumb when aimed towards RM games, this should be in video games or something. Really most RM games don't have character portraits, big sprites or anything represented enough to show off big tits unless you are playing DOOMS. Since most people just rip from SNES rpgs (which interestingly enough, wasn't as over-sexualized back in the day) you're not going to see jiggle-ness in attack animations.
Relyt
1242
In RM games I've never had a problem with female oversexualization.
In commercial games however...it really irks me. Especially with that one female character in FFXII (her name escapes me). She had bunny ears and an outfit that was almost less than lingerie. Seriously, Square?
In commercial games however...it really irks me. Especially with that one female character in FFXII (her name escapes me). She had bunny ears and an outfit that was almost less than lingerie. Seriously, Square?
S. F. LaValle
1069
Well, the original post indicated that what he perceives as oversexualization is not just about what you see, but also what you read. I still can't think of any specific examples of this, but I know they're out there. In the V&V example he originally posted, it was described through dialogue that the female character enjoys casual sex and explained that the same character is bisexual.
Then the question was posed: what drives one to make these types of creative decisions? People create their characters with certain reservations about their personality and appearance, even if the appearance is never actually shown via face sets or other artwork in-game. People factor this in when they design scenes and create dialogue. A female character can be written to be constantly avoiding wannabe suitors that think she is the reigning queen of beauty. This sort of thing shines through without necessarily being processed by the developer as establishing a character's sexual status. Oversexualization, probably not, but it comes to mind because we as game players are just totally jaded to that female archetype.
Modifying the course of the topic a bit, I'm curious about what you guys think of the below.
One interesting paradox is FFVII. Tifa is obviously very oversexualized in appearance (breast physics, 'nuff said). Aerith, on the other hand, has much more implied sexualization (Don Corneo and his bums who hit on her). Tifa is meant to appeal as the sex bomb, and Aerith is meant to appeal as the team mom (I won't link to any tropes because I actually look forward to replies sometime this month). That is to say, Aerith is the kind, caring embodiment of female perfection that DOESN'T (necessarily) relate to physical appearance (she's still perceived to be very thin, and attractive). I've come to see that females are generally written into one or (not uncommonly) both of these archetypes, be it commercial games or your neighborhood RM games.
If oversexualization is perceived as bad (or amateurish at the least), is it equally unrealistic to come across female characters that are otherwise perfect without direct reference to physical appearance?
Then the question was posed: what drives one to make these types of creative decisions? People create their characters with certain reservations about their personality and appearance, even if the appearance is never actually shown via face sets or other artwork in-game. People factor this in when they design scenes and create dialogue. A female character can be written to be constantly avoiding wannabe suitors that think she is the reigning queen of beauty. This sort of thing shines through without necessarily being processed by the developer as establishing a character's sexual status. Oversexualization, probably not, but it comes to mind because we as game players are just totally jaded to that female archetype.
Modifying the course of the topic a bit, I'm curious about what you guys think of the below.
One interesting paradox is FFVII. Tifa is obviously very oversexualized in appearance (breast physics, 'nuff said). Aerith, on the other hand, has much more implied sexualization (Don Corneo and his bums who hit on her). Tifa is meant to appeal as the sex bomb, and Aerith is meant to appeal as the team mom (I won't link to any tropes because I actually look forward to replies sometime this month). That is to say, Aerith is the kind, caring embodiment of female perfection that DOESN'T (necessarily) relate to physical appearance (she's still perceived to be very thin, and attractive). I've come to see that females are generally written into one or (not uncommonly) both of these archetypes, be it commercial games or your neighborhood RM games.
If oversexualization is perceived as bad (or amateurish at the least), is it equally unrealistic to come across female characters that are otherwise perfect without direct reference to physical appearance?
Tifa and Aeris/Aerith are an interesting example because despite what you'd expext from their appearance, their personalities are actually the complete opposite of what you just described. Aerith is the out-going, sexual one, she flirts with Cloud constantly and one of the first things she does is ask him out on a date. Tifa, by contrast, is very shy and demure and much more of a mother figure to the members of AVALANCHE. she clearly has feelings for Cloud, but is far more reluctant to act on them. See just how strong these forms of characterization can be? They can make us forget how these character actually act.
WolfCoder
3554
post=99681
It's not the same as giant muscles, giant swords, etc...
Especially when both genders of characters with those. In Anime and games, it's more common to see either gender that's the classic DAMAGE!1!!!!1!! archtype have strong muscles and a big sword.
post=99464Err? Probably depends on where you live. I said almost always, that's to avoid saying all, because that's definitely not true. I've seen a few see-through tops as well, though it doesn't strike me as being TOO indecent. I guess it's the fact that nothing really happens that much in downtown Burbank. :P
facto 4 lief:
> You'd be amazed at how many exceptions to that rule I can count on my fingers.
> During the summer, the countless amounts of bikini-wearing girls (I do not live by the sea) and see-through tops that has passed my unfortunate nerd-vision has made me realize that womens tits aren't really THAT exciting (oh, who am I kidding)
> Man, have you ever talked to more women than one and that one on a period? Okay, maybe not, but the first thing I saw when I read this was even more straight up deviations from this "fact".
