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LOVE IS A MANY-SPLENDOURED THING
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Shinan
4314
Shinan
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CloseInspired by the over-sexualisation topic there came up the issue of romance in them games.
So I thought I'd make a topic on it. Tips and tricks on how to make romance subplots. How to make them effective even when they are sidetrack in the overall arc.
I'm a big fan of love myself so I will let this love topic include everything from the typical romances to also using other kinds of love effectively. (I guess the family love and patriotic love are two other common themes that can be useful to deliver that emotional punch you sometimes need)
Following will be some very rambly thoughts.
1) Non-main character PC love.
One thing I think can be very useful in subplots are a budding romance between characters that are not the main character. I'm an RPGer so I don't like it when "my" character is forced to do things I don't generally want to do. With other characters it's a lot easier. And since you may not be privy to EVERYTHING other characters do you can leave some to the imagination. (especially if you suck at writing romance and courting)
Example: have two sidekick PCs obviously fall in love. Use all the regular tropes but do not play out the scenes where the main character is present. Instead use those lovely "confidence moments" when a party member approaches the main character for advice. For a gameplay payoff you can always end up with one of the pairing getting kidnapped and helping the other one to save the day and reuniting the lovebirds!
2) Minor character love
This one's useful for short dramatic punches. One of my favorite past-times is encouraging deaths and having characters die left and right. So you can introduce loving couple and kill one of them off for dramatic effect and showing how evil the bad guy really is! Of course you will have to establish this couple. Usually by introducing them early and not stamp cannon fodder on their foreheads. It could just be a small thing.
Example: The emotional payoff of talking to a newlywed couple early on in the game and later encountering the same couple after a terrorist bombing is usually better than just seeing one side of it once.
3) Family
This one's probably the easiest to do for main characters too. Having a sibling or other family member that the character holds dear. It can be someone older to look up to or someone younger who is just cute and friendly. If established correctly the player will want to help this family member ones he/she gets into that inevitable trouble you established him/her for. (alternatively you can kill him/her off. That works too.) Of course not all players will feel sympathetic towards the family member but as always you can't win them all. And you can always do it with another non main player character.
Alright those were some of my examples of easy-to-use romantic subplots. How to go about doing them? I guess the hardest part is probably the writing. Juggling between "going nowhere" and "fucking on a first date" is probably difficult. Personally I have little experience in writing romances, I like to skip all the parts where the romance develops and just see snapshots of other people (see 1)). You can probably tell that I haven't got that much experience in "real life" romances either so I can't draw from that, which is why I hardly ever bother to try.
However those of you who are trying. Give tips and tricks on simple things to make it work. Musical numbers? Dialogue choices? Turning down the lights and putting on some early nineties music?
Note that this isn't really a topic on whether you should do it or not or if it's even a good idea. This is more of an implementation topic.
So I thought I'd make a topic on it. Tips and tricks on how to make romance subplots. How to make them effective even when they are sidetrack in the overall arc.
I'm a big fan of love myself so I will let this love topic include everything from the typical romances to also using other kinds of love effectively. (I guess the family love and patriotic love are two other common themes that can be useful to deliver that emotional punch you sometimes need)
Following will be some very rambly thoughts.
1) Non-main character PC love.
One thing I think can be very useful in subplots are a budding romance between characters that are not the main character. I'm an RPGer so I don't like it when "my" character is forced to do things I don't generally want to do. With other characters it's a lot easier. And since you may not be privy to EVERYTHING other characters do you can leave some to the imagination. (especially if you suck at writing romance and courting)
Example: have two sidekick PCs obviously fall in love. Use all the regular tropes but do not play out the scenes where the main character is present. Instead use those lovely "confidence moments" when a party member approaches the main character for advice. For a gameplay payoff you can always end up with one of the pairing getting kidnapped and helping the other one to save the day and reuniting the lovebirds!
2) Minor character love
This one's useful for short dramatic punches. One of my favorite past-times is encouraging deaths and having characters die left and right. So you can introduce loving couple and kill one of them off for dramatic effect and showing how evil the bad guy really is! Of course you will have to establish this couple. Usually by introducing them early and not stamp cannon fodder on their foreheads. It could just be a small thing.
Example: The emotional payoff of talking to a newlywed couple early on in the game and later encountering the same couple after a terrorist bombing is usually better than just seeing one side of it once.
3) Family
This one's probably the easiest to do for main characters too. Having a sibling or other family member that the character holds dear. It can be someone older to look up to or someone younger who is just cute and friendly. If established correctly the player will want to help this family member ones he/she gets into that inevitable trouble you established him/her for. (alternatively you can kill him/her off. That works too.) Of course not all players will feel sympathetic towards the family member but as always you can't win them all. And you can always do it with another non main player character.
Alright those were some of my examples of easy-to-use romantic subplots. How to go about doing them? I guess the hardest part is probably the writing. Juggling between "going nowhere" and "fucking on a first date" is probably difficult. Personally I have little experience in writing romances, I like to skip all the parts where the romance develops and just see snapshots of other people (see 1)). You can probably tell that I haven't got that much experience in "real life" romances either so I can't draw from that, which is why I hardly ever bother to try.
However those of you who are trying. Give tips and tricks on simple things to make it work. Musical numbers? Dialogue choices? Turning down the lights and putting on some early nineties music?
Note that this isn't really a topic on whether you should do it or not or if it's even a good idea. This is more of an implementation topic.
Few things irk me more than a ham-fisted, forced romance between characters. If you wish to include romantic sub-plots in a game, there are a few important things to remember, I think:
1. Love is not based entirely on physical attraction. At least not any meaningful, worthwhile kind of love.
2. Love does not happen in five seconds, five minutes, or five days.
3. Sexual tension is mostly subtext.
4. People rarely stand around talking about how much they love each other.
5. If you have to stand there and explain to me that these two are in love, something has gone horribly, horribly wrong.
1. Love is not based entirely on physical attraction. At least not any meaningful, worthwhile kind of love.
2. Love does not happen in five seconds, five minutes, or five days.
3. Sexual tension is mostly subtext.
4. People rarely stand around talking about how much they love each other.
5. If you have to stand there and explain to me that these two are in love, something has gone horribly, horribly wrong.
Darren and Collin from Demon Tower are in love. Princess and Kristoph are attracted to each other but are still at the crush phase. In V&V, Telia and Wanderer are infatuated with each other; Elena and Wanderer go through Assumption and Attraction depending on your actions.
In extreme layman's terms, there are FOUR PARTS OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF LOVE according to the Smart Psychologist Society (SPS).
1) Assumption/Crush part 1. Cute glances, asking "is this person attractive to me physically/emotionally/mentally?"
2) Attraction/Crush part 2. Asking "should I be attracted to this person socially/economically/etc?"
3) Infatuation/Lust. Drama and feeling extreme emotions - high joy, deep pain, etc. due to relationship
4) Attachment/Love. The mature part of this all; unconditional love.
Like Solitayre said, this is not a five-day track. Soulmates might jump straight to Attraction, but they're not going straight to Infatuation.
EDIT: TIDUS AND YUNA
(FFX spoilers you already know)
Assumption: Tidus starts to get to know Yuna, Wakka and Lulu talk about them.
Attraction: Tidus swears to protect Yuna and gets closer.
Infatuation: Tidus learns that Yuna's going to die NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Attachment: Sealed with a kiss when Yuna truly needs it.
In extreme layman's terms, there are FOUR PARTS OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF LOVE according to the Smart Psychologist Society (SPS).
1) Assumption/Crush part 1. Cute glances, asking "is this person attractive to me physically/emotionally/mentally?"
2) Attraction/Crush part 2. Asking "should I be attracted to this person socially/economically/etc?"
3) Infatuation/Lust. Drama and feeling extreme emotions - high joy, deep pain, etc. due to relationship
4) Attachment/Love. The mature part of this all; unconditional love.
Like Solitayre said, this is not a five-day track. Soulmates might jump straight to Attraction, but they're not going straight to Infatuation.
EDIT: TIDUS AND YUNA
(FFX spoilers you already know)
Assumption: Tidus starts to get to know Yuna, Wakka and Lulu talk about them.
Attraction: Tidus swears to protect Yuna and gets closer.
Infatuation: Tidus learns that Yuna's going to die NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Attachment: Sealed with a kiss when Yuna truly needs it.
Erilex
3452
post=99538
I'm an RPGer so I don't like it when "my" character is forced to do things I don't generally want to do.
This could be averted by introducing various possible love interests for the main character, and allowing the player to choose between them, or stay single if they so wish. Persona 4 achieved this quite masterfully (although the impact of the actual romantic relationships is lowered by the fact that you can be a sneaky bastard and pretty much go out with every single girl in the game at the SAME TIME without any major consequences -at least not any that I know of-).
Shinan
4314
post=99552
This could be averted by introducing various possible love interests for the main character, and allowing the player to choose between them, or stay single if they so wish.
The problem with multiple love interests is if you still want that emotional story going you're either in for a heck of a lot of work or the love interest won't really be much of an issue in the grander scope of things. However having few possible love interests as well as the option to not go for either is probably a bit easier to work with.
2. Love does not happen in five seconds, five minutes, or five days.
3. Sexual tension is mostly subtext.
I think these two are probably the most difficult to translate into a game. How much time is enough time? It will be different for each player. One will go "GET ON WITH IT ALREADY" while another may go "Wait what. Where did that come from?".
And it all depends on the subtext. Going too subtle and players may not pick up on it. Going too obvious and it will be too tacky.
It doesn't help that game writing is pretty damn limiting. You (usually) don't have tones of voice. You don't have body language. You can't really make a subtle animation because people will see it and go "Wow, he custom animated that, this moment must be important!"
Ah the limits of these couple-o-pixel high characters.
How do we make our very own Weighted Companion Cubes?
My opinion, which will probably cause a deluge of controversy and cause the topic to be locked: People with no relationship experience have no business writing about love, or inserting it into their games. Otherwise, they will have an insufficient frame of reference. I've fallen down this pitfall before, and as a direct result I wrote myself into a corner and had to cancel the project.
Also, loving, protective family storylines in RPGs have been done to death. I'd like to see some more dysfunctional families... like my own...
Also, loving, protective family storylines in RPGs have been done to death. I'd like to see some more dysfunctional families... like my own...
I actually more or less agree with you. Writers should stick to writing what they know.
If you know nothing about love, don't try to write a love story.
If you know nothing about love, don't try to write a love story.
Karsuman knows everything about having a paraplegic husband, fending for yourself in a haunted wilderness, living in artic climates and falling in love with a wandering adventurer.
S. F. LaValle
1069
post=99824
Also, loving, protective family storylines in RPGs have been done to death. I'd like to see some more dysfunctional families... like my own...
I'd be inclined to say more the opposite is true; sibling rivalry, for example, seems much more common than a close family relationship because it's easier to tell a more interesting story.
I disagree with Indogutsu and Solitayre on a very fundamental level. (and no, it's not just because of what craze said =p)
People have a limited range of experiences - and I'm not just talking about love here. A skilled writer investigates and researches experiences they haven't had if they are not confident in their ability to portray them. As Orig said, most fiction writers have not experienced many of the things they write about.
People have a limited range of experiences - and I'm not just talking about love here. A skilled writer investigates and researches experiences they haven't had if they are not confident in their ability to portray them. As Orig said, most fiction writers have not experienced many of the things they write about.
Xenosaga 3 has a huge focus on a dysfunctional family (Shion, Shion's parents and Jin) and an utterly failed romantic relationship (Shion and Kevin).
EDIT: And XS1+2 spend a lot of time on a dysfunctional family (MOMO/Mizrahi/Joachim) and XS2 is mostly about the fucked-up group of Rubedo/Nigredo/Albedo. Sadly, XS1 is kind of like torture, XS2 wishes it were torture and XS3 is amazing. Despite that, the end result of all this BAD LOVE is the ending movie of XS3, which always makes me get teary.
EDIT: And XS1+2 spend a lot of time on a dysfunctional family (MOMO/Mizrahi/Joachim) and XS2 is mostly about the fucked-up group of Rubedo/Nigredo/Albedo. Sadly, XS1 is kind of like torture, XS2 wishes it were torture and XS3 is amazing. Despite that, the end result of all this BAD LOVE is the ending movie of XS3, which always makes me get teary.
post=99845
People have a limited range of experiences - and I'm not just talking about love here. A skilled writer investigates and researches experiences they haven't had if they are not confident in their ability to portray them. As Orig said, most fiction writers have not experienced many of the things they write about.
I also agree with this, but unfortunately a great many writers do not bother to do any research at all.
However, nothing beats actual experience.
S. F. LaValle
1069
To put this out there, "write what you know" isn't bad advice, just not properly applied. Nobody (ok, probably none of us at least) know anything about the things Craze said. What we do know is how we all would feel in those situations. We can guess how our friends would feel in those situations, both internally and externally. We would know how having someone's company can affect how we feel about a given situation. That sort of thing.
As far as love goes, it's tricky. If you're convinced you've felt love before, or what it's like to be hurt, then you have what you need to draw upon and create a believable character. The trick is not to betray your experiences by resolving your own pent up grief or frustration by making an improbable match work (wish fulfillment). If you're writing a love story that has to work, even if you haven't been able to get that far in your own life, then tread carefully. Understand that love is about all of those things that Craze and Solitayre mentioned. Address the characters' insecurities about themselves and each other before allowing them to open up.
As far as love goes, it's tricky. If you're convinced you've felt love before, or what it's like to be hurt, then you have what you need to draw upon and create a believable character. The trick is not to betray your experiences by resolving your own pent up grief or frustration by making an improbable match work (wish fulfillment). If you're writing a love story that has to work, even if you haven't been able to get that far in your own life, then tread carefully. Understand that love is about all of those things that Craze and Solitayre mentioned. Address the characters' insecurities about themselves and each other before allowing them to open up.
MrWaltz
387
^ couldn't agree more with this guy here.
it's a real shame too. research is vital...but is considered the most boring process for writing/designing games.
post=99847
unfortunately a great many writers do not bother to do any research at all.
it's a real shame too. research is vital...but is considered the most boring process for writing/designing games.
Yeaster
6164
My later games are probably more sexual than romantic. Nothing's ever said out-right, just hinted at.
Romance wouldn't fit at all in Vanity. So far, anyways.
Romance wouldn't fit at all in Vanity. So far, anyways.
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