CULTURE OF CRASS, APATHY AND CYNICISM

post=126947
IWhat the fuck is Allinlia? I was about to play the WORLD TOWER our of a sense of vague guilt and beholdenness (: P ), I thought that was your game. : )

Allinlia is the project I am currently working on. World Tower was my first game and I was basically just using it to teach myself the ropes. Its on vacation right now.

Also, I'm pretty guilty of not being more contributie toward other people's projects. There has been a review I have been holding off on writing for days now. At least I have a whole weekend of nothing to do coming up :D

I put it on my list too, Yoshio, after you mentioned it in IRC :D

This topic has spiraled into a lot of different areas. I'll just sort of throw a brain dump out there since I am at work.

It might sound terrible but yes I see this place as a ship with me as its sole captain. I try to steer it into the most favorable of trading grounds as I can. AND I DONT TAKE SHIT FROM ANYONE.

And the ones who really know me realize that isn't entirely true, yet it gets thrown around a lot. I have put an immense amount of effort into building this place. I don't care about people getting their knobs buffed by swarms of people, nor about getting their feelings hurt. I do NOT like people posting negative things solely for the purpose of negativity. You can keep that shit elsewhere.

It may also shock some of you to hear that I absolutely despise inter-site feuding or trash talking. I had plenty of that back in my stint at GW and it was pretty childish. There are definitely sites I like less than this one, but I try to not make a deal out of them other than from competition standpoints (comparing features, content, etc.).


Now the future of the site is something I haven't quite figured out yet, as I prefer to let things sort of coagulate themselves. There has been a lot of talk of things I've said over the course of the site's history, from either excitement or frustration. You can chalk up the "ban RM2k/3" stuff to frustration.

The site's name will change. This is almost an absolute certainty at this point. This site was never supposed to be for the RPG Maker programs. It has supported other engines since the day it was opened. I have encouraged others to use it. However, having the words "RPG Maker" in the domain is very difficult to overcome when you are not focused on that. You could say the name NEVER fit the site. It has supported multiple engines and multiple genres since it was just a twinkle in my eye.

The current codename for the next iteration of this site is "NotRMN4". No I haven't actively started working on it. It'll slowly progress as I figure out exactly what I want it to do.


I've been pretty happy with the way RMN3 has turned out. I am glad it panned out almost as well as I had hoped. There has been somethings that just haven't worked out as well as I had hoped (see: comment notices, blogs), but I was able to get everyone to see my vision with game profiles. That means a lot that I can say "Hey I have a new idea I think could be better" and people believe in it. So thank you for that.

I will say that my heart hasn't been quite so in it as it has in the past. I see the same discussions, the same types of games, the same graphics and it feels like things just are NOT moving. That is partially behind the decision for name changing. I want people to use this place as a platform for their game, despite what it is made in or what genre of game it is.

As for what this topic was actually posted for, I am not concerned about people "participating in the community". The community is not words and nobody should expect it to be! I like chattering about games. But you can get that from any silly forum on the internet. This site wasn't built so you can run your mouth and get 10000 posts and become a mod. This site is about making games and playing games. It's about production followed by consumption and that order definitely makes a difference.

Anyway that's the end of this post because I could ramble for a very long time.

The whole GW and game design thing doesn't really exist and honestly I don't see how it really fits into the discussion, because as I explained before, GW is no longer game-design focused and isn't really trying to be.

post=126877
coolbeans amateur RPG showcase?

Did you read what I said about genres? I honestly think if we shifted off the RPG mindset and replaced it with just game in general (although RPGs still probably would dominate the site and I'm fine with this) I feel the site would grow a lot if we opened up to other genres, as well as other makers.
And yes, I think the name RMN is kind of silly because WIP doesn't use RPGMaker.

post=126921
Basically what I'm saying is that there isn't some intrinsic factor that makes games with original graphics more interesting on that merit alone. Original graphics are excellent if you can do them but it doesn't make a game fundamentally more fun or whatever. Chromatose looks great from an objective standpoint, but ultimately I'm not too interested in how it looks, original graphics or not.

I did not say that original graphics are inherently better (in fact my favorite RM games have pretty shitty graphics), I am rather saying we should encourage original graphics over FF6 rips. And you know literally nothing about The Colony, while there are some gameplay shots for Chromatose as well as a few characters being shown off. How DO you know there's good gameplay, or even anything? I want to comment Chaos's comment on that profile because he was the first one to bring up that graphics are not really connected to the gameplay! For all you know The Colony could be an interactive movie, adventure game, fighting game, Mario Party mini-game type thing or even a dating sim. The genre isn't even RPG, it's "Other." I'm not talking bad about the game, but rather using it as evidence that FF6 ripped graphics garner a lot more intention than ripped graphics.

@Craze: I cannot say that I agree with you on a lot of points, but your opinion is just as valid. We just have different viewpoints and styles. I don't have a problem that you aren't interested in Muse or Chromatose and I have to admit a lot of your work doesn't really interest me (except worldsong lolololol). We just are different and I can accept that.

post=126867
It's the old "why fix what isn't broken" thing.

This is pretty subjective as in the OP kentona pretty much states he feels some things are broken, and I do too (which I addressed in my long post.)

edit: WIP's post explains a lot of things and I trust him with the direction of the site especially since it is really up to him.

Nobody should trust me because I am the leader. People should trust me by what I do.

I didn't think you said The Colony is better! (nor do I think it is worse) I am just supplying an example and I am not meaning to target you in general. Maybe you have your own reasons for liking it, but I'm just using it to show how FF6 rips do attract more attention. I have always noticed that Final Fantasy fangames have attracted a LOT more attention in the RM community than original work. I am not saying either is inherently good or bad, but I honestly don't feel that connects to an atmosphere that fosters creativity and uniqueness, and it leads to a lot of "sameness." (although once again, I feel that opening up the genre thing would help this)

You said "original graphics don't fundamentally make the game more fun" so that is why I was commenting on gameplay.

post=126990
Nobody should trust me because I am the leader. People should trust me by what I do.

This is true, but I trust you because I agree with decisions you have made in the past, and from I know you are a smart person who knows what he is doing!

I think it's ironic that there's an interesting 20-minute game that has been on the front page for 3 days but only got 5 downloads, while this topic about apathy, about motivating fellow makers and about asking people to play other people's games has been around for only two days but already got 71 replies. I believe that says a lot.

post=127001
Now this is me just playing Devil's Advocate here, but that's probably because they look better. Actually, that's only half right. I don't see a lot of games that use the FF6 style with any real skill. There are quite a few games that have FF6, or other ripped graphics, but most of them look...really bad. But some of them look really grand! If you look at it from an outside perspective, it's easy to see why some games with original graphics don't get the attention they may otherwise deserve, because purely from an outsider perspective, a lot of them, a LOT of original graphics are really fucking ugly. Like terrible looking.

There are also lot of games with original graphics that look good. However, I do want to reference one fact: back in my GW days, I remember an occasion or two where someone posted a game and it got very little feedback. Then, the author changed the name to a fake name that had "Final Fantasy" in it. What happened then? The topic grew rapidly. There are plenty of games that use rips or are a fangame that I have are pretty shitty but got a lot more attention than original stuff I felt was good.

post=127001
I understand that from an aesthetic standpoint, we're supposed to cut original graphic artists a break and appreciate their work because it's original, but someone else, especially someone new to the scene, isn't going to feel obligated to go 'Aww, how cute *pats original graphics on the head* I'll give this a playthrough'.

By the way I disagree with this. I don't believe in lowering standards because graphics are original.

post=127001
No, they'll just straight up go for the prettiest and best looking game they'll see, original or not. Imagine someone who has never heard of FF6, and show them two games; a game made from well put together FF6 graphics, or a game made with original graphics from MS Paint. Guess what he'll pick?

Well, maybe someone new to the community hasn't played FF6 and will see a game that uses cohesive rips. But eventually, if someone like that does stay in the community, they will see that many games utilize some FF6 or Rudra rips. (and SO many games use Rudra. so many) And thus, they will come to experience the "sameness."

Although the MS Paint comment is irrelevant and there's a lot of good stuff made in it, or some clone of it, like this: http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/021/b/6/022_by_K_hos.png

edit:

post=127004

post=126983
As for what this topic was actually posted for, I am not concerned about people "participating in the community". The community is not words and nobody should expect it to be! I like chattering about games. But you can get that from any silly forum on the internet. This site wasn't built so you can run your mouth and get 10000 posts and become a mod. This site is about making games and playing games. It's about production followed by consumption and that order definitely makes a difference.

Was it necessary to quote this without commenting on it? The discussion has deviated from the original apathy about "playing games" and being crass or whatnot, but it has spread to other discussions involving apathy and cynicism.

@Azn

There are also lot of games with original graphics that look good. However, I do want to reference one fact: back in my GW days, I remember an occasion or two where someone posted a game and it got very little feedback. Then, the author changed the name to a fake name that had "Final Fantasy" in it. What happened then? The topic grew rapidly. There are plenty of games that use rips or are a fangame that I have are pretty shitty but got a lot more attention than original stuff I felt was good.

Fangame popularity is just one of those things that will never go away. Names sell, and this will always be true in every media since ever and will be true from now until forever. You can make a movie about a guy looking for treasure running from boulders and call it 'Aztec Treasures' and it'll probably make about 500 bucks, but take that same movie and tack 'Indiana Jones' and its instantly a blockbuster. People have been using this as a tactic since modern media. It sucks, but it's not something thats limited to game making/RPG Maker and it's probably not going to go away, either.

By the way I disagree with this. I don't believe in lowering standards because graphics are original.

I'm glad you feel that way, seriously, man.

post=126990
Nobody should trust me because I am the leader. People should trust me by what I do.

Or NOT trust you as is their perogative. But it seems like you've done a decent enough job so far (or I would not be posting here).

And yes, I think the name RMN is kind of silly because WIP doesn't use RPGMaker.

I have always seen it as RPG Maker as in ("one who makes rpgs").net and never as referring to a specific engine.

As for everything else...my big long posty thingies are at the bottom of page 3 if anyone cares to (re)read them. THhey got kinda swallowed by the topic.

Well, maybe someone new to the community hasn't played FF6 and will see a game that uses cohesive rips. But eventually, if someone like that does stay in the community, they will see that many games utilize some FF6 or Rudra rips. (and SO many games use Rudra. so many) And thus, they will come to experience the "sameness."

I care about graphics so, so, so much less than I care about everything else. I know I'm alone in that though.