WHAT DO PEOPLE CARE ABOUT?

post=129365
I want to know What do you care about when it comes to RPG making, RMN, RM scene, games in general?

kentona, I addressed this in your other topic (and you didn't say anything back to me), but why do you act as if RPG design is the only thing around? I enjoy RPGs a lot but I also enjoy many other games, and I know other people around here do too. Game design isn't all about RPGs and continuing to treat your discussions as if the site only caters to RPGs (which despite the name of the site, is clear it doesn't) is close-minded.

What I care about in terms of game design:
1. Originality. I don't care about playing Final Fantasy Fangame #4178. I want to see in your games something original, that personal creativity can bring to others. Using a formula is good, but if you don't deviate from it, I have no reason to play it. I want to play your weird offbeat game about cybercops chasing monkeys through the internet. I want to play your plot-driven game about kings and vampires. Whatever the hell is it that you want to bring to us, I want to see that part of your game that goes, "this is me, this is my game, this is my style, this is how I stand out of the pack."

2. Innovation. Gameplay-wise or storytelling wise, or anything, I'd really like to see new mechanics brought into games. The generic formula of a game can be okay and all, but if it is built-on into something new and interesting, that can bring the experience onto a whole new level. Whether it is the ability to jack into computers or awesomeometers, a unique mechanic keeps me interested.

3. Writing. Good writing is very important to me. Flat boring characters will not interest me much, unless your gameplay or graphics are outstanding. I love to read (and write) well-developed stories with three-dimensional characters. Not much else to say about this, but I believe that effort needs to be applied in all areas.

4. Willingness to make mistakes. If you never mess up, you will never learn. This is a fact. Drawing your graphics the wrong way 20 times means that you have that much more practice towards drawing them the right way. In terms of game design, I can't see any skill that can't be learned. With practice, you can get good at art, or anything. Never composed a soundtrack before but want to try? Test it out, look up some tutorials or advice, give things a whirl. Most things don't really go right the first time they happen.

5. Graphics. I probably won't play your REFMAP game unless you use it really well. I probably won't play your incohesive mashup of SNES rips game either. Graphics are quite important to me, and I especially prefer original graphics. (though, RTP does look pretty good when used well, especially since it is less over-used now in comparison to Rudra and REFMAP) Sraphics and screenshots are the first thing I see when looking at your game. If they're ugly, even if you have a good plot, I will see the screenshots and probably not play your game. If your game looks like every other game I don't really feel like I have much reason to play it. Also, an important aspect of graphics is functionality. Even if your game is super pretty, if the graphics confuse me and I can't find my way around, I will get frustrated.

It is only worse if poor functionality is combined with bad graphics.

6. Atmosphere. If your game has no mood, then I am not going to be in the mood to play it. :)

7. Music. One of the most memorable aspects of my favorite games, from Golden Sun to Terranigma is the music. Pick a distinctive style of soundtracks, not a mishmash of whatever the hell you find. Of course, original is the best way to go if you have those skills, but if you are not going original, at least pick something fitting. And no, I don't want to hear FF6bossbattle.mid or the like. If you're going to use music from games, at least pick obscure stuff.

8. Effort. I put a lot of effort into all aspects of my games because I enjoy doing it a lot. If you just sort of half-ass your game and don't put effort, and I can feel that it is rushed or you just didn't really care enough, I won't like it. Some people take game design as a hobby more seriously than others, but if you want others to care about your game, you're going to have to put effort into it.

What I care about in terms of RMN (the community):
1. Feedback and Criticism. This is essentially why I post screenshots and whatnot, before a release. I always enjoy reading helpful criticism and feedback, because I want to improve however I can.

2. The members. There are a bunch of members I am friends with and talk with outside of RMN. People on IRC, people I chat with on AIM, or people who I play arcade games with until 4 in the morning. I don't really have anything against most members although personally, I do feel that the userbase could be better...

3. Hype. I want to be excited about your game. I want you to post screenshots and little tidbits of information to keep me interested. Just please, please, don't overdo it. I am horrible at hyping though. (probably because I am such a nutcase about keeping info secret)

4. The site itself. Having a place to upload and show off your game is quite handy. I really like the gameprofiles.

5. Game design discussion. I enjoy reading discussions about game design aspects. Although many times I have nothing to contribute towards some RPG mechanics, I keep an eye on the topics. In fact, I am... starting up a certain project based around this sort of thing...

6. Giving others feedback. I like writing reviews and I like to help people out in the help section if I can. One thing I feel important about giving feedback though, is making sure that games are well-rounded in their aspects. Even if a game has amazing gameplay, I will criticize the graphics if they are lacking, or vice versa. From personal experience I feel that accepting criticism on your weaker areas is the best way to improve.

7. Hilarity. Even though I don't really care much for a lot of the moronic forum stuff, I do enjoy laughing and reading a lot of your guys' silly posts. Like this topic.

What I care about in terms of the RM scene:
I don't have a specific list for this, since honestly RMN is the only bit of the RM scene I really know... =P

What I care about in terms of games in general:
I honestly don't play enough recent games to say much about this. Most of my time is spent around watching movies or playing music or taking part in a lot of extracurricular stuff.

In terms of RMN:
I am new to RMN, and game making in general, so maybe it colors my opinion but what I care about is having a pool of talented and experience individuals whose brains you can pick every once in a while when you need help making your own game. It would be the worst if you were hyped up about making a game but then get stuck without having anyone to ask for help, perhaps it would destroy the ambition you had and your game would go unfinished.

I also care about being able to help those that do have questions about things that I can offer some sort of knowledgeable advice or instructions on. I think it all comes down to just having people that can support each other in accomplishing their respective goals.

In games(all genres):
Story: Maybe this applies to RPG's alittle more but I also feel any genre of game can have a good, solid, story. In any case I am kind of tired of a group of plucky adventurers out to save the world. I like stories that are human and/or tackle a certain aspect of humanity. I don't like randomly appearing plot characters that spring onto the scene for no reason or plot twists that just make no sense what so ever. (I'm looking at you White Knight). Generally just stay away from the average JRPG plots and I'll more or less be happy.

Graphics: I'm pretty lax when it comes to graphics(as I suck at art and all things artistic) but I do like to see people trying to make a game look descent. I don't mind seeing sprites from other games or from a general sprite set as I know not everyone can draw/sprite. Just show me that you tried to make the game look good by making interesting backgrounds and maps.

Battles: I hate random battles. That is all.

Music: Make the music match the mood of the scene, don't make it annoying, and don't make it unnecessarily epic. It'd be nice to use tunes that aren't in the major games/RPG's but at the same time if you can only see that music fitting the scene then go for it!

I also care about cake.

What do I care about? Good question. Probably doesn't seem like much, considering how often I post these days.

Loathe as I am to admit it, most of the things I care about here are selfish. I care about getting people to play and enjoy my games. I know I kinda shot myself in the foot with a rocket launcher when I chose to make the kind of games I am, but I still hold onto some faint hope that others will enjoy them regardless of the, *ahem*, subject matter.

I'd like to care more about the community and getting involved and giving a crap about anything. I really admire that kentona can put so much energy into making this a better place. But for me...I just don't have the time! I'm always wrapped up with some project of my own, and I find it impossible to keep up with everything around here. And what's worse, I typically enjoy making games more than playing them, so chances are I'm never going to pick up anyone else's game with a serious intent to finish it. Heck, I'm supposed to be reviewing Sore Losers right now, and I haven't even touched it yet.

I don't really know what else to say. I like it here, and there are a lot of bright, helpful people here. But when it comes to contributing to the community, I just...can't. I have no motivation.

Is 'genre' the right term for what you mean here? I've always associated the term with literature - horror, romance, science fiction, fantasy, mystery, etc...

Any one of these could be told, however well or poorly, in an RPG.
Or in a sidescrolling action game.
Or in a text-only adventure.

As to what I care about on the site, I'm not honestly certain. I simply enjoy my own game work, and seeing what others have done with the engines I use. And sorry, but in my case that is the RM series. I tried Game Maker once, but couldn't really get into it beyond modding a couple of the default games a bit.

I think half of what I've enjoyed about RMN is that it is, for lack of a better term, alive. I've been on three RM development sites in the past: Skytower Games, War of the Magi, and Ultima Island. Skytower and WotM are dead, UI appears to be in the last death throes at the moment. I'm hoping that's not the case, but...

RMN, on the other hand, has a living interaction to it - the others had that in their time, but gradually, people drifted away, the topics stopped getting answered, and eventually, posted - finally, the site itself dissappeared from the net (UI excepted). RMN is still alive, growing, in ways the others weren't by the time I came upon them. I hope it remains that way here.

Philosophical enough for you, Kentona?

But it's not on the correct axis for the comparison you're drawing, as far as I can see. I'd personally use 'mechanism' or 'method' for what you're trying to describe.

I don't post much on these forums but i do check out this website from time to time on any updates to any new (and well-known) indie RPGs, and i come here mainly because of this.

What i care about :

1) The indie games that get much support from much of the community. I usually play games that are highly recommended and praised/receive many positive comments from the community. Then i play these games, enjoy them, then actually record them down as indie games that I've played in a list of my own (yea i love making these kind of lists).

2) Because of these, I love reading reviews of games. Reviews will highly determine whether games are worth playing etc, and i come to this website to check out new indie RPGs and read reviews etc.

In terms of game design:

1) Originality: I would love to play RPGs that wouldn't remind me distinctively of another indie/commercial RPGs and such. Because of this, i also hardly play any fangames. Ripped graphics are fine with me, as long as they don't remind me too much of any commercial RPGs that I've played.

2) Gameplay: I'm cool with the default battle system, but would be great if authors are to make them in such a way that even default battle systems can be interesting. I'm not too stringent into this but of course great gameplay would be cool.

3) Storyline: One main reason why i play indie RPGs is because of this factor. If an RPG is great, there ought to have at least a storyline and i would always be curious to get indulged in the storyline, be it good or bad.

That's pretty much all i care about really on this website, to be honest. I hardly (or rather, never) make games myself, 'cause i don't really have the patience to make one. Usually after playing an indie RPG, i will reflect to myself why this game's fun and such. That's the beauty of indie RPGs, because indie RPGs are created by ordinary people with creative ideas and such, so there're a whole range of great games to search and such.

post=129602
Is it me or do even the most cheerful and naive of us grow more bitter and jaded over time?

This is called "getting older." =)

When I come here, I usually look for something interesting to play. Recently that hasn't been the case, heh. I'm usually checking if people are giving me feedback at the progress I've been chugging at my game.

What do people really care about? It's pretty obvious if you look around.

A cursory glance around the site suggests they care about clinging to their favored maker of choice and shouting down any user of any other maker as silly, inferior, somehow not as good as themselves for their choice.

They care about showing off, about looking down on others and making sure everyone knows how awesome their own project or custom system is, even if it never sees so much as a single release.

They care about getting as many people as possible to play their game in all circumstances, even if they will readily admit that they would never even consider playing anyone else's game. (Because it is obviously inferior to their own, naturally.)

Some of them actually care about improving themselves as makers, but it's easy to say you want to improve.

This is what the actions of the userbase of this site suggest to me that people care about. What they will actually do when they're not saying they care about things they think other people think they should care about. I have seen very little to suggest otherwise.

post=129660
What do people really care about? It's pretty obvious if you look around.

A cursory glance around the site suggests they care about clinging to their favored maker of choice and shouting down any user of any other maker as silly, inferior, somehow not as good as themselves for their choice.

They care about showing off, about looking down on others and making sure everyone knows how awesome their own project or custom system is, even if it never sees so much as a single release.

They care about getting as many people as possible to play their game in all circumstances, even if they will readily admit that they would never even consider playing anyone else's game. (Because it is obviously inferior to their own, naturally.)

Some of them actually care about improving themselves as makers, but it's easy to say you want to improve.

This is what the actions of the userbase of this site suggest to me that people care about. What they will actually do when they're not saying they care about things they think other people think they should care about. I have seen very little to suggest otherwise.

This only contributes to the generally negative attitude around here.