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WHY DOES DYING HAVE TO SUCK?
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Dudesoft
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WolfCoder
3554
post=135099
Tangentially related articleThere's definitely a reason we moved on from trial and error. There's definitely a reason why we demand fairness from games. Failing in order to succeed is a strange attitude, a mindset into which one must insert oneself. You have to pop into the right department of your brain and make a note on a whiteboard saying, "It's okay that I keep dying â€" don't fling PC through window."The direction in which Valve is taking games is tremendously exciting. Intuitive design, barely consciously recognised prompting, and behind-the-scenes difficulty rebalancing if you're struggling.
It's creating a single-player standard where it just isn't okay to die. The player is having fun when he's succeeding, winning, overcoming. He isn't having fun when he's being killed by the same boss creature a dozen times in a row. And when a game lasts six to 12 hours, you want to be progressing, seeing what comes next.
Ah, but you're forgetting everyone has their own idea of what's fun. I get three dozen glowing hot spheres of ordinance shoved into my orifices in Touhou but that oddly enough makes me want to play the game more. I don't turn the difficulty up on games because I'm good at them- I actually kind of suck at lots of different games. I don't like a game that lets me beat it, I would rather watch a movie if I'm going to just sit there and watch stuff happen. The game has to beat me.
A good game lets you learn it and understand it easily and then turns the recruits into BAMFs. A good game makes a weak gamer a stronger one.
I hate Game Over. I took my cue from Dragon Quest and got rid of it in Razkertim, my RM game. When you die, you just get sent back to your house and you don't lose any progress whatsoever. And you can easily get back to where you just were using the warp spell.
I'm surprised that out of the thousands of RM games I've played, no other game has something like this. The closest I've seen is a battle retry option. The scripts to get rid of game over, or game over to map exist, but nobody else is taking advantage from I've seen.
I'm surprised that out of the thousands of RM games I've played, no other game has something like this. The closest I've seen is a battle retry option. The scripts to get rid of game over, or game over to map exist, but nobody else is taking advantage from I've seen.
Tonfa
150
Clearly DEMONS GATE is not one of these "thousands" of games. There are other examples, it's just the first that comes to mind.
DEMONS GATE has the greatest penalty for dying: Losing your entire inventory! *
* - A bug in earlier versions that would occur under uncommon circumstances. This is a foolproof way of pissing off your tester!
* - A bug in earlier versions that would occur under uncommon circumstances. This is a foolproof way of pissing off your tester!
post=137067
Clearly DEMONS GATE is not one of these "thousands" of games. There are other examples, it's just the first that comes to mind.
Yeah sorry bro, I shall check it out! And unfortunately most of those thousands of games I've played are RM2K or RM2K3 ones where you can't really do much about game over.
WeasleX
0
I hate to just blow this one down a notch but let me say that if dieing didn't suck, there would be no difficulty. I can't speak for everyone, but I personally, do not enjoy easy games. If it was easy, and I alway's won, I can't really see how that would be fun.
post=137598
I hate to just blow this one down a notch but let me say that if dieing didn't suck, there would be no difficulty. I can't speak for everyone, but I personally, do not enjoy easy games. If it was easy, and I alway's won, I can't really see how that would be fun.
Nice strawman argument. ;)
"DYING IS ALL THERE IS TO DIFFICULTY DO YOU HAT DIFFICULTY ??"
EDIT: More of a statement that he didn't read up. =/
Nullmech
0
I have to agree with Chaos there, a game's difficulty can't rely solely on a death mechanism. The gameplay should be presenting some difficulty in other ways, like puzzles or stuff like that. Lufia 2 did that well for me; I almost never died, but whenever I solved one of those puzzles (especially the Ancient Cave or whatever it was), it was waaaay more rewarding than "You died, back to the save point with you."
A loss of progress is incredibly frustrating. The whole "Did you remember to save?" thing has become such a tired mechanic. It's not difficult to save, but should you forget to save, it becomes really really annoying.
Eh, I don't mind it. As handy as autosave is in modern games, I don't see it as a negative strike if the game doesn't have it. I just try not to forget to save!
So I realized that Dragon Age and FFXIII have the same "full heal after battle" system, and it works really well because stuff is difficult but not "oh I didn't have enough MP." You expected to go ALL-OUT in every Dragon Age battle (and you'll probably die if you're not at least decent with your positioning/tactics).
This is why I spent an hour and a half continuously getting better and better at defeating the mage tower boss until I actually won. Note that boss battles are typically 3-5 minute skirmishes, and that (much like normal battles), positioning is everything.
I enjoy dying in Dragon Age (which I do a lot) because I want to get right back up and try again. Being able to save anywhere while not in combat helps, too. In almost any other RPG (except maybe Mass Effect 2 - oh hey Bioware) I stop playing for a day or two after I die. I just don't really care - but in Dragon Age I know it's entirely possible to win. Yes, it's due to level scaling and the next comment, I guess, but... it's fun as Hell!
Dragon Age's encounters are also hand-crafted (as in every single enemy encounter is placed in a specific spot and can only be encountered once ever, even "random" world map encounters I am 99% sure), which makes it even better due to traps/hazards/terrain/split attention/etc.
This is why I spent an hour and a half continuously getting better and better at defeating the mage tower boss until I actually won. Note that boss battles are typically 3-5 minute skirmishes, and that (much like normal battles), positioning is everything.
I enjoy dying in Dragon Age (which I do a lot) because I want to get right back up and try again. Being able to save anywhere while not in combat helps, too. In almost any other RPG (except maybe Mass Effect 2 - oh hey Bioware) I stop playing for a day or two after I die. I just don't really care - but in Dragon Age I know it's entirely possible to win. Yes, it's due to level scaling and the next comment, I guess, but... it's fun as Hell!
Dragon Age's encounters are also hand-crafted (as in every single enemy encounter is placed in a specific spot and can only be encountered once ever, even "random" world map encounters I am 99% sure), which makes it even better due to traps/hazards/terrain/split attention/etc.
In almost any other RPG (except maybe Mass Effect 2 - oh hey Bioware) I stop playing for a day or two after I die.
That sucks, bro.
post=137918In almost any other RPG (except maybe Mass Effect 2 - oh hey Bioware) I stop playing for a day or two after I die.That sucks, bro.
I don't like redoing slow, plodding battles where the first five minutes are buffing/debuffing.
post=137922post=137918I don't like redoing slow, plodding battles where the first five minutes is buffing/debuffing.In almost any other RPG (except maybe Mass Effect 2 - oh hey Bioware) I stop playing for a day or two after I die.That sucks, bro.
Depends on the game. Most RPGs aren't like that!
I mean overall, I can't imagine calling something a hobby if you quit at the first roadblock. My enjoyment for RPGs (and other games) is rather unconditional. I wouldn't spend time and money on something if there was something I disliked about it to the point where I'd quit so easily, yeah?
Remember how bad it sucked to die in Xenogears? It's like the cutscenes leading up to the fight were more difficult to get through than the boss itself.
boos405
636
The reason why dying sucked was so you'd put more coins into an arcade game.
If it sucks now, it's because that|those developer|developers goes|go with the flow instead of thinking reasons behind their chosen mechanic, which is what really sucks.
If it sucks now, it's because that|those developer|developers goes|go with the flow instead of thinking reasons behind their chosen mechanic, which is what really sucks.
