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AND THEY ALL LIVED HAPPILY EVER AFTER...
Posts
NicoB
3071
NicoB
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CloseThere's no denying that creating fluid, engaging story for your game can be difficult. Players want to feel a connection with the main characters and feel like their story has a purpose. However, perhaps even more difficult is deciding how to ultimately end the plot. Although, personally, I'm quite a ways off from completing my own game, I still find myself thinking about how exactly I want to end it. A game may have a great plot, but it can completely fall apart at the conclusion, especially if the player feels like the work they put into it isn't rewarded.
So I wanted to ask, what do you expect from an ending? What games do you believe have had good/bad endings? This can include commercial and RM games. Make sure you use discretion when revealing specifics so as not to completely spoil a game's conclusion (use hide/spoiler command).
So I wanted to ask, what do you expect from an ending? What games do you believe have had good/bad endings? This can include commercial and RM games. Make sure you use discretion when revealing specifics so as not to completely spoil a game's conclusion (use hide/spoiler command).
[hide] [/hide]
just for reference
E (content): This is interesting and relevant and I will think on how to phrase what I want to say.
just for reference
E (content): This is interesting and relevant and I will think on how to phrase what I want to say.
Yeaster
6164
A good ending to me is one that wraps up the game's storyline and leaves me feeling fulfilled. Yes, I am a sucker for cookie-cutter endings, but after playing through a 30+ hour RPG, I want some kind of pay off at the end.
But I know there are a ton of people who prefer more ambiguous endings, however.
But I know there are a ton of people who prefer more ambiguous endings, however.
I'm really terrible at endings. Especially if it's not truly an ending, but only the close of a chapter (like most of my RPGs are, being a series). Like Yeaster said, a good ending wraps everything up. It resolves the plot conflict and gives the viewer a sense that it truly is over.
I don't really like vague or ambiguous endings, because they feel like a cop out to me. It's like the creator hit their awesome climax and said "Uh...er...ooh, I know! I'll leave them guessing!" And then ends it in some utterly inexplicable way. Although I've never seen it, I heard FF7 has an ending like that.
I guess some people like having a mystery to think about after the story's over, but not me. I like my loose ends hogtied by the credits roll.
I don't really like vague or ambiguous endings, because they feel like a cop out to me. It's like the creator hit their awesome climax and said "Uh...er...ooh, I know! I'll leave them guessing!" And then ends it in some utterly inexplicable way. Although I've never seen it, I heard FF7 has an ending like that.
I guess some people like having a mystery to think about after the story's over, but not me. I like my loose ends hogtied by the credits roll.
sunshinesan
534
Shadow of the Colossus has like the perfect ending in terms of non-cookie cutter/execution/relevance and consistency with itself (i.e. the theme of the game/atmosphere etc.)
As for me, I think a story resolution almost always has to be cookie-cutter for the player to be satisfied, with exceptions of course. It is the climax that needs to surprise me/put something new and interesting to the table.
As for me, I think a story resolution almost always has to be cookie-cutter for the player to be satisfied, with exceptions of course. It is the climax that needs to surprise me/put something new and interesting to the table.
For a trilogy, I expect "bombshell" (as sunshinesan put it) endings for the first and second installments, and some sort of happy or satisfying conclusion for part three. Carlsev Saga is atypical in the sense that it's more like a history thriller, and players are given the characters with the most "action" at any given time. Don't expect happy endings for every playable character. Things solidify at the start of Episode II, so the characters that players will grow attached to throughout that game will, ultimately, receive a fitting ending in Episode III. Whether you like or hate them. In other words, the player will get to decide the fates of a couple characters.
If I don't feel that the ending is satisfying and truly conclusive, then it ruins the entire game experience for me. If there's no clean way to make everything work out happily, don't deus ex machina a happy ending. A contrived happy ending makes me feel cheated and that's the worst kind of last impression to be left with in a game. The ideal ending is one which has been well-built up to and ties in with the theme of the game. If it doesn't feel relevant to the rest of the story, it feels awkward and thrown on.
Drakonais
2787
The epic deus ex machina from FFVII:
Yeah, it's unsatisfying.
Oh damn, holy isn't strong enough to stop the meteor! Hey... what's all this green stuff? Oh... cool.
Yeah, it's unsatisfying.
Aten
1570
post=145898
The epic deus ex machina from FFVII:Oh damn, holy isn't strong enough to stop the meteor! Hey... what's all this green stuff? Oh... cool.
Yeah, it's unsatisfying.
No its just you.
Man, wanna talk terrible ending? ROGUE GALAXY.
I don't really think happy endings are a must. As long as it sums up things pretty well, and leaves a bit for us to think about, I think it's a good ending.
Tonfa
150
I'm going to play the devil's advocate here and say I hate unjustified bittersweet/downer endings.
A last minute bullet in the head out of nowhere or brainless "HURGH GONNA JUMP IN FRONT OF THE LASER LIVE ON MY FRIEND never mind we could both dodge" sacrifice just makes me pissed at the terrible writing rather than feel it's poignant or something. There's nothing wrong with a happy ending in the right context!
A last minute bullet in the head out of nowhere or brainless "HURGH GONNA JUMP IN FRONT OF THE LASER LIVE ON MY FRIEND never mind we could both dodge" sacrifice just makes me pissed at the terrible writing rather than feel it's poignant or something. There's nothing wrong with a happy ending in the right context!
Darken
3952
post=145906
I want unexpected endings. I don't want happy endings where everything just seems to be tied off in a neat little bow, that's not how things work. Endings that are completely open to interpretation are usually the best endings.
You'll love Lost...
Anyway I'm not sure if we should categorize endings as HAPPY :D or SAD ): because it's entirely possible to have something sad happen but have a happy "oh well, at least ... " you know a mixed ending where everything happens for a reason. I really like endings where it's very obvious that the main characters are still going to have problems in their future, they're probably still going to have more bad guys/things to face but the game's present story was the highlight and development of their lives. My favourite example is probably the Miyazaki(Studio Ghibli) Films. Princess Mononoke basically showed the various sides of the conflict reflecting on what happened and what they'll probably do in the future. The audience is pretty much left to their imagination based on a few lines of dialogue.
Lost's ending was great!
My top-ten RPG endings:
10. Xenosaga Episode III
9. Final Fantasy IX
8. Final Fantasy XIII
7. Mass Effect 2
6. Xenosaga Episode II
5. Star Ocean: Till the End of Time
4. Final Fantasy VIII
3. Xenosaga Episode I
2. Xenogears
1. Final Fantasy X
My top-ten RPG endings:
10. Xenosaga Episode III
9. Final Fantasy IX
8. Final Fantasy XIII
7. Mass Effect 2
6. Xenosaga Episode II
5. Star Ocean: Till the End of Time
4. Final Fantasy VIII
3. Xenosaga Episode I
2. Xenogears
1. Final Fantasy X
I love downer endings that involved lots of character death :<
Being serious, I agree with darken, it's hard to justify happy and sad endings. Want a great one? CLANNAD, I can't put more emphasis on this thing also EF -A fairy tale of two-
But here's something?
"When will you make an end?"
- The Pope on the painting of the Sistine Chapel
"When I'm finished."
- Michelangelo.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Okay, so you got this GREAT Idea for a story!
- This Great Idea...that births chapter after chaper...
- This Great Idea... that you can't seem to finish. (WTF?)
Crap.
So what do you do now?
HOW do you make an End?
Fairytales and Myths were my foundational reading, so they became my base model for how a story should finish -- by ending where you began with a solution.
This doesn't mean ending a story in the location it started, or that full irrevocable transformations don't happen, but that the story ties the knot to the Emotional or Karmic place they began. -- The lost find their way, the wicked are punished, the weak become strong, monsters are faced, emotional hang-ups are dealt with, and problems are solved. What is begun - finishes.
However...
-- Stories aren't just about characters Doing stuff, it's about character's Dealing with stuff and Figuring out stuff about themselves. The really good stories, the ones that grab us and stay in our memories the longest, all illustrate normal people problems and issues, and the SOLUTIONS they come across.
No matter how fantastic the setting or characters are, stories are still about people being people dealing with people stuff. It isn't what they Do, it's How they did it, and what they discovered about themselves on the way.
It sounds perfectly simple, and it can be, however I despise stories I can guess the ending to, so naturally, I refuse to write them that way. (Insert evil snicker.) I prefer to make my stories a bit more unpredictable.
How? Subterfuge.
The Wrong direction is the Right direction!
I prefer to write stories that throw the reader completely off the obvious path, straight through the center of the village, and force them into the deep dark woods. I deliberately make every straightforward solution unbelievably problematic!
• The obvious answer is the wrong answer.
• The simple solution is impossible to accomplish.
• What seems to be a easy task has impossible if not fatal complications.
Once the reader has been sent careening off into territory they never expected to go, and gotten utterly wrapped up in a plot they never expected - that's when I start tying up ends by way of pulling rugs out from under the reader's feet.
Characters reveal motives that change how their base characters are perceived.
• The obvious bad-guy isn't the bad guy, he's AFTER the bad-guy. However, he's completely ruthless in his hunt, which is what made him seem like the bad-guy in the first place.
• The bumbling fool that merely wants to help improve his fellow man, is in fact completely deranged sociopath that likes to do his improvements with a scalpel.
• The person the main character is trying to rescue, not only doesn't want to be rescued, but in fact resents the intrusion.
Random events and objects are revealed to have unexpected connections.
• The gun on the mantelpiece wasn't merely a decoration.
• The strange recluse neighbor turns out to be the one person who actually knows what's really going on.
What was accepted as fact is revealed to be something else entirely.
• "We're all living in a computer generated dream-world."
And in the process of dealing with all that...
• Monsters are faced.
• Emotional hang-ups are dealt with.
• Problems end up solved.
• What was begun - finishes.
The END
Being serious, I agree with darken, it's hard to justify happy and sad endings. Want a great one? CLANNAD, I can't put more emphasis on this thing also EF -A fairy tale of two-
But here's something?
"When will you make an end?"
- The Pope on the painting of the Sistine Chapel
"When I'm finished."
- Michelangelo.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Okay, so you got this GREAT Idea for a story!
- This Great Idea...that births chapter after chaper...
- This Great Idea... that you can't seem to finish. (WTF?)
Crap.
So what do you do now?
HOW do you make an End?
Fairytales and Myths were my foundational reading, so they became my base model for how a story should finish -- by ending where you began with a solution.
This doesn't mean ending a story in the location it started, or that full irrevocable transformations don't happen, but that the story ties the knot to the Emotional or Karmic place they began. -- The lost find their way, the wicked are punished, the weak become strong, monsters are faced, emotional hang-ups are dealt with, and problems are solved. What is begun - finishes.
However...
-- Stories aren't just about characters Doing stuff, it's about character's Dealing with stuff and Figuring out stuff about themselves. The really good stories, the ones that grab us and stay in our memories the longest, all illustrate normal people problems and issues, and the SOLUTIONS they come across.
No matter how fantastic the setting or characters are, stories are still about people being people dealing with people stuff. It isn't what they Do, it's How they did it, and what they discovered about themselves on the way.
It sounds perfectly simple, and it can be, however I despise stories I can guess the ending to, so naturally, I refuse to write them that way. (Insert evil snicker.) I prefer to make my stories a bit more unpredictable.
How? Subterfuge.
The Wrong direction is the Right direction!
I prefer to write stories that throw the reader completely off the obvious path, straight through the center of the village, and force them into the deep dark woods. I deliberately make every straightforward solution unbelievably problematic!
• The obvious answer is the wrong answer.
• The simple solution is impossible to accomplish.
• What seems to be a easy task has impossible if not fatal complications.
Once the reader has been sent careening off into territory they never expected to go, and gotten utterly wrapped up in a plot they never expected - that's when I start tying up ends by way of pulling rugs out from under the reader's feet.
Characters reveal motives that change how their base characters are perceived.
• The obvious bad-guy isn't the bad guy, he's AFTER the bad-guy. However, he's completely ruthless in his hunt, which is what made him seem like the bad-guy in the first place.
• The bumbling fool that merely wants to help improve his fellow man, is in fact completely deranged sociopath that likes to do his improvements with a scalpel.
• The person the main character is trying to rescue, not only doesn't want to be rescued, but in fact resents the intrusion.
Random events and objects are revealed to have unexpected connections.
• The gun on the mantelpiece wasn't merely a decoration.
• The strange recluse neighbor turns out to be the one person who actually knows what's really going on.
What was accepted as fact is revealed to be something else entirely.
• "We're all living in a computer generated dream-world."
And in the process of dealing with all that...
• Monsters are faced.
• Emotional hang-ups are dealt with.
• Problems end up solved.
• What was begun - finishes.
The END
A good ending is the one where a lot happens. I want to watch stuff in the ending. It doesn't have to be long as the latest FFs, but at least give me something instead of credits and a "the end" screen.
I liked Dhux's Scar's ending for that matter.
I liked Dhux's Scar's ending for that matter.
Darken
3952
post=145925post=145917I dislike Lost: There's a difference between being open to interpretation and not answering any questions at all. Being spoon-fed a conclusion is just as bad as having no information on which to develop an opinion. Something in-between is ideal.post=145906You'll love Lost...
I want unexpected endings. I don't want happy endings where everything just seems to be tied off in a neat little bow, that's not how things work. Endings that are completely open to interpretation are usually the best endings.
I see what you mean. I'm just really mad at Lost I guess. :D
LOST SPOILERS = ENABLED.
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED
I loved the church ending; I actually couldn't stop crying. Granted, the mythology was poorly explained, but I think they set themselves up for failure in that regard. For Carlsev Saga, I'm going to try to explain the mythology as elegantly as possible; no church endings, that's for sure :)
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED
I loved the church ending; I actually couldn't stop crying. Granted, the mythology was poorly explained, but I think they set themselves up for failure in that regard. For Carlsev Saga, I'm going to try to explain the mythology as elegantly as possible; no church endings, that's for sure :)
