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Posts
Nightblade
2723
Nightblade
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Closeauthor=TFTauthor=Saileriusright. you obviously don't know what you're talking about as usual.
Custom graphics are only better than non-custom graphics if they look better. If you don't think you can do it, then don't waste your time.
if you actually have to sit down and ask yourself if you should/want to make custom graphics, that's sort of weird to me. people say it is a huge amount of work, but the average rm user is just, incredibly lazy and think "laying tiles" is some exhausting task.
when you use content you've made, it actually makes the work worthwhile, because it's actually "your" stuff. you can do essentially anything in rpgmaker when you use custom graphics. you can't hang on the excuse of "lol sorry this rudra chipset is too restricting". the ability to work around anything graphically in rpgmaker makes it that much more fun to use at the expense of idk "time" i guess. the only thing challenging about it, is picking out all the things you want to put into the game.
the point of rpgmaker kind of changes when you use custom graphics. it doesn't matter if it's shitty or stellar. not only do you get to make your own content, you get to practice pixel spriting. rpgmaker gives a lot back in certain ways. i mean, i hated spriting at first, i didn't understand it but i started doing FF6 edits and kept working on a game and then eventually i was able to just make whatever i wanted. so, i think spriting is really fun now, instead of a headache. i remember when nessiah and ocean joined the rm community. it's kind of cool to see how far they've come from just starting to learn to pixel to creating 100% custom games every week.
if it's something you want to invest time into, do it. don't listen to people go "IF IT AINT GOOD, DON'T DO IT!" shut the fuck up with that. go lay your RTP tiles. it is dumb people like that, who are just, incredibly unoriginal, uninspiring, and just, inability to actually do anything creative so they drown their games in various scripts and menus that nobody cares about.
rpgmaker is just a huge art portfolio waiting for you to fill it.
I remember ocean's early stuff was just this hodge podge of weird and ugly jagged tilework, now he's pretty damn respectable. I wish I shared the same adaptability as you when it comes to spriting. I've edited tons of stuff and I still get stuck, and hung up and annoyed with stuff. I wish I had someone do all of that crap for me so I could focus on other aspects; but what are you going to do.
author=TFTauthor=Saileriusright. you obviously don't know what you're talking about as usual.
Custom graphics are only better than non-custom graphics if they look better. If you don't think you can do it, then don't waste your time.
if you actually have to sit down and ask yourself if you should/want to make custom graphics, that's sort of weird to me. people say it is a huge amount of work, but the average rm user is just, incredibly lazy and think "laying tiles" is some exhausting task.
when you use content you've made, it actually makes the work worthwhile, because it's actually "your" stuff. you can do essentially anything in rpgmaker when you use custom graphics. you can't hang on the excuse of "lol sorry this rudra chipset is too restricting". the ability to work around anything graphically in rpgmaker makes it that much more fun to use at the expense of idk "time" i guess. the only thing challenging about it, is picking out all the things you want to put into the game.
the point of rpgmaker kind of changes when you use custom graphics. it doesn't matter if it's shitty or stellar. not only do you get to make your own content, you get to practice pixel spriting. rpgmaker gives a lot back in certain ways. i mean, i hated spriting at first, i didn't understand it but i started doing FF6 edits and kept working on a game and then eventually i was able to just make whatever i wanted. so, i think spriting is really fun now, instead of a headache. i remember when nessiah and ocean joined the rm community. it's kind of cool to see how far they've come from just starting to learn to pixel to creating 100% custom games every week.
if it's something you want to invest time into, do it. don't listen to people go "IF IT AINT GOOD, DON'T DO IT!" shut the fuck up with that. go lay your RTP tiles. it is dumb people like that, who are just, incredibly unoriginal, uninspiring, and just, inability to actually do anything creative so they drown their games in various scripts and menus that nobody cares about.
rpgmaker is just a huge art portfolio waiting for you to fill it.
Sure, what you said makes sense if you're striving to become a game artist, but if your goal is to make good games that people will play and enjoy, then you need to be pragmatic. If your art skills aren't up to par, then don't bother with custom graphics. Players who are browsing a gallery of screenshots from various games aren't going to see a game with crappy graphics and think "oh, I bet the guy who made this put a lot of time and effort into it", they're not going to think anything of it and instead be fixated on the games with better graphics.
Sure, you can raise the "lol graphics don't matter" argument as much as you want, but you're not going to change the mindset of the people who actually go around looking for games to download. Furthermore, it's extremely pretentious of you to presume that everyone who uses RPG Maker is using it to become an artist. If you don't care about being an artist, then there's no reason to be fixated on making custom graphics. Focus on making a game that people will play. If your game looks like shit, you might have learned a lot from working on it, but unfortunately, your game will still look like shit and no one will care.
Don't waste your time with making custom graphics. Spend the time instead on improving balance and adding/refining gameplay mechanics. Regardless of what some people say, to be "creative" when working on a game is to make it INTERESTING TO PLAY, not pretty to look at. It's the people who claim that graphics trump gameplay and design who truly lack creativity. =x
EDIT: also, very nice claiming that a game with 100% custom art regardless of quality is fantastic while claiming that a game with 100% custom programming is shit lol
author=TFTauthor=Saileriusright. you obviously don't know what you're talking about as usual.
Custom graphics are only better than non-custom graphics if they look better. If you don't think you can do it, then don't waste your time.
if you actually have to sit down and ask yourself if you should/want to make custom graphics, that's sort of weird to me. people say it is a huge amount of work, but the average rm user is just, incredibly lazy and think "laying tiles" is some exhausting task.
when you use content you've made, it actually makes the work worthwhile, because it's actually "your" stuff. you can do essentially anything in rpgmaker when you use custom graphics. you can't hang on the excuse of "lol sorry this rudra chipset is too restricting". the ability to work around anything graphically in rpgmaker makes it that much more fun to use at the expense of idk "time" i guess. the only thing challenging about it, is picking out all the things you want to put into the game.
the point of rpgmaker kind of changes when you use custom graphics. it doesn't matter if it's shitty or stellar. not only do you get to make your own content, you get to practice pixel spriting. rpgmaker gives a lot back in certain ways. i mean, i hated spriting at first, i didn't understand it but i started doing FF6 edits and kept working on a game and then eventually i was able to just make whatever i wanted. so, i think spriting is really fun now, instead of a headache. i remember when nessiah and ocean joined the rm community. it's kind of cool to see how far they've come from just starting to learn to pixel to creating 100% custom games every week.
if it's something you want to invest time into, do it. don't listen to people go "IF IT AINT GOOD, DON'T DO IT!" shut the fuck up with that. go lay your RTP tiles. it is dumb people like that, who are just, incredibly unoriginal, uninspiring, and just, inability to actually do anything creative so they drown their games in various scripts and menus that nobody cares about.
rpgmaker is just a huge art portfolio waiting for you to fill it.
All of that is fine and dandy but it really depends if the return is worth the investment for the individual. I'm not a bad spriter myself, but for me personally, the amount of time that it would take for me to do an entirely custom effort is, for me, not worth the time it takes to do it. I'm pretty sure I could too, but I'm also sure I'd look back on the entire effort and go; 'Well, good job Mog, but there are also a million other things I'd rather have been doing'. I could also learn to paint, do interpretive dance, and play the violin, and that's great in itself, but if I'm not interested on the return on the investment, why bother, really?
Claiming that's what an uncreative and unoriginal person would say is pretty disingenious, and kinda dumb since no one said that not making custom graphics means that all the creative processes in a game goes out the window. Personally, the time I'd be spending making custom graphics is time I'd rather be working on a story, gameplay systems, or another aspect of game creation.
But all that's relative, and just me! If you're like TFT and Ocean, and you really enjoy the effort, work, and reward of going custom, by all means go for it! But claiming that people who don't feel like investing the work into making custom graphics as RTP bricklaying plebes or whatever isn't really fair. Like you said, if you have to ask yourself if you want to go all custom, you'd better make sure its something you really want to do throughout the good times and the bad. If not, don't.
Also, I'm not completely attacking your viewpoint;
This is absolutely correct. However, don't expect people to like it. If you're trying to appeal to a playerbase or an audience, yeah, go with what will get people to play your game, custom or no. If you're trying to go towards total artistic expression when it comes to the visuals, TFT is right, do what the fuck you want.
if it's something you want to invest time into, do it.
This is absolutely correct. However, don't expect people to like it. If you're trying to appeal to a playerbase or an audience, yeah, go with what will get people to play your game, custom or no. If you're trying to go towards total artistic expression when it comes to the visuals, TFT is right, do what the fuck you want.
It's sad when someone puts a lot of effort into custom graphics, then the gameplay falls short, or no one likes the actual game/story itself.
I think at the end of the day, this is less of a 'custom graphics or not' conversation, and more of a 'How do you want to do something that is ultimately for fun and a hobby' conversation?
Like I said before, TFT is right on one thing; if you want to invest time on it, whether it's custom graphics, custom music, ripping, editing, programming, whathaveyou, do it. Whether it'll create a competent game is another conversation, but for something that boils down to something we all do for fun, if its something you want to invest (increasingly precious) time in, then do it. If not, then don't.
Like I said before, TFT is right on one thing; if you want to invest time on it, whether it's custom graphics, custom music, ripping, editing, programming, whathaveyou, do it. Whether it'll create a competent game is another conversation, but for something that boils down to something we all do for fun, if its something you want to invest (increasingly precious) time in, then do it. If not, then don't.
author=Feldschlacht IVYes, that's my point exactly. It's a question of your priorities -- you have to decide what the goal of your project is. Do you want to improve as an artist or do you want to make a game that people will be interested in and play? And to prevent someone from jumping in with "you can do both", sometimes that's too much of an investment of time and stress into one project than someone wants to undertake. It can be very discouraging to spend countless hours on custom resources only for your game to be overlooked because players don't care for your style or skill level.
Also, I'm not completely attacking your viewpoint;if it's something you want to invest time into, do it.
This is absolutely correct. However, don't expect people to like it. If you're trying to appeal to a playerbase or an audience, yeah, go with what will get people to play your game, custom or no. If you're trying to go towards total artistic expression when it comes to the visuals, TFT is right, do what the fuck you want.
WolfCoder
3554
And to prevent someone from jumping in with "you can do both", sometimes that's too much of an investment of time and stress into one project than someone wants to undertake.
You won't stop me. Yeah sure it's going to take forever, but games here already take forever to get finished. It's not like we work for a major game company and every minute of time wasted is like thousands of dollars. I'd wait a few weeks for a game and I'd wait a couple of years for a game for the game to be done right.
If it's one thing I learned from time-attack game making contests is that the results are usually full of flaws. Remember Action 52!
Drakonais
2787
If you're committed to making a Pokemon game, it seems sensible to use rips. The custom graphics vs. rips/RTP for original content is a debatable issue, but I'm just saying it would be strange to completely redo all the graphics for a game when the exact graphics you are looking for already exist.
WolfCoder
3554
Oh to clarify, I'm not talking about custom graphics so much as generally taking your time with your game whatever you decide to do with it.
author=WolfCoderAnd to prevent someone from jumping in with "you can do both", sometimes that's too much of an investment of time and stress into one project than someone wants to undertake.You won't stop me. Yeah sure it's going to take forever, but games here already take forever to get finished. It's not like we work for a major game company and every minute of time wasted is like thousands of dollars. I'd wait a few weeks for a game and I'd wait a couple of years for a game for the game to be done right.
If it's one thing I learned from time-attack game making contests is that the results are usually full of flaws. Remember Action 52!
That's great (seriously, it is, in a demographic that has the patience of a roadrunner with diarrhea), but that doesn't speak for the person taking a lot of time actually making the game. Whether or not there will be an audience waiting for it, some people (if not most people) have sort of a soft 'deadline' on how long they're willing to work on a single project. I can tell you right now that if a magic genie from the future told me that finishing Chronology (something I already work off and on on, and have every intention of finishing relatively soon) would take five years of straight work, I'd quit right now. But once again, that's just me. I just don't want to spend that much time doing this. Your mileage may vary on this.
I'm just trying to get people to see it from all angles.
author=WolfCoderAnd to prevent someone from jumping in with "you can do both", sometimes that's too much of an investment of time and stress into one project than someone wants to undertake.You won't stop me. Yeah sure it's going to take forever, but games here already take forever to get finished. It's not like we work for a major game company and every minute of time wasted is like thousands of dollars. I'd wait a few weeks for a game and I'd wait a couple of years for a game for the game to be done right.
If it's one thing I learned from time-attack game making contests is that the results are usually full of flaws. Remember Action 52!
I wasn't trying to dissuade anyone from doing both. I was pointing out that it's unreasonable to demand that level of commitment from everyone. Some people prefer to do a series of quick, short games rather than a few longterm, involved ones.
Some gijinkas are cool.
Looks like I sparked some discussion; that's always good. I agree with a lot of what's being said. So far, I'm leaning most toward the idea that custom IS better, but not for a project this far into development. I've had more than enough distractions already, and going all custom would likely be another slow down. But I'm still paying attention.
Looks like I sparked some discussion; that's always good. I agree with a lot of what's being said. So far, I'm leaning most toward the idea that custom IS better, but not for a project this far into development. I've had more than enough distractions already, and going all custom would likely be another slow down. But I'm still paying attention.
Radnen
1806
RPGMaker spoon feeds so damn much and simplifies an extreme amount of details about what goes into an RPG, that it'd be pure folly to not do *something* out of the way and make custom graphics.
@Feld: You have no idea how much harder it is to not only make custom graphics but an entire RPG subsystem. So RPGMaker should encourage custom graphics. People who use RM and rip graphics are lazy-ass people.
However! Salerius, Feld and TFT, to call names since its important when debating what you think is right, since your work must reflect your viewpoint, it seems that all of you have fallen victim to non-custom graphics, and almost contradictory. Salerius especially has more completed games by not drawing 100% custom graphics, but does this mean they play better or worse? I do believe Vacant Sky did have some custom graphics (as it's selling point)? Feld's game seems to be an FF rip, so I'm at a crossroads, how will your game compare to FF, or otherwise I'd believe you're just making a mockery of it and the artist would be rolling in his chair (since he's still alive) I can say your game looks the best, but you didn't do shit in the art dept.. And TFT's games look like jokes, so why is he talking about effort when Ghost in a Bottle is "an ass game"?
I'd tend to agree with a Salerius/TFT mix on this one. Really a good game will stand out on good art. I'm one of those people who scroll through games with rips/rtp/whatever and say it looks good, but that's because the author found a pretty tileset, I've seen the graphics before. On the other hand if they are custom (which I highly prefer) they got to be good. Games that fall in-between are weird. When it comes down to it. Those that make good games are cut out for it. RM is not for everyone. Why do people assume that RM+rips a good game makes?
If you suck at pixel art/art of any kind don't use RM.
If you are a good writer: Write a book; not a game.
People want to create that "childhood game they wished for so long" but its a farcry and false reality. 'cause it takes skill. I hate to see people legitimately try and get mediocre ratings because they took shortcuts in the art/sound department. Getting rips for the sake of completing the game is poor design. I've taken solace in the fact that my actual efforts have gotten me better at pixel art. It takes a certain type of person to say "hey, let actually try to put real effort into this game."
What was Enterbrains goal? Because RM has became this kind of graphical pit. It has disenfranchised the RPG genre by conveniencing the game design process to the extent in which anybody can easily create any type of RPG they prefer with no needed knowledge in the process good musical scoring, graphics, and programming have on it. Key Words: disenfranchisement and convenience.
@Feld: You have no idea how much harder it is to not only make custom graphics but an entire RPG subsystem. So RPGMaker should encourage custom graphics. People who use RM and rip graphics are lazy-ass people.
However! Salerius, Feld and TFT, to call names since its important when debating what you think is right, since your work must reflect your viewpoint, it seems that all of you have fallen victim to non-custom graphics, and almost contradictory. Salerius especially has more completed games by not drawing 100% custom graphics, but does this mean they play better or worse? I do believe Vacant Sky did have some custom graphics (as it's selling point)? Feld's game seems to be an FF rip, so I'm at a crossroads, how will your game compare to FF, or otherwise I'd believe you're just making a mockery of it and the artist would be rolling in his chair (since he's still alive) I can say your game looks the best, but you didn't do shit in the art dept.. And TFT's games look like jokes, so why is he talking about effort when Ghost in a Bottle is "an ass game"?
I'd tend to agree with a Salerius/TFT mix on this one. Really a good game will stand out on good art. I'm one of those people who scroll through games with rips/rtp/whatever and say it looks good, but that's because the author found a pretty tileset, I've seen the graphics before. On the other hand if they are custom (which I highly prefer) they got to be good. Games that fall in-between are weird. When it comes down to it. Those that make good games are cut out for it. RM is not for everyone. Why do people assume that RM+rips a good game makes?
If you suck at pixel art/art of any kind don't use RM.
If you are a good writer: Write a book; not a game.
People want to create that "childhood game they wished for so long" but its a farcry and false reality. 'cause it takes skill. I hate to see people legitimately try and get mediocre ratings because they took shortcuts in the art/sound department. Getting rips for the sake of completing the game is poor design. I've taken solace in the fact that my actual efforts have gotten me better at pixel art. It takes a certain type of person to say "hey, let actually try to put real effort into this game."
What was Enterbrains goal? Because RM has became this kind of graphical pit. It has disenfranchised the RPG genre by conveniencing the game design process to the extent in which anybody can easily create any type of RPG they prefer with no needed knowledge in the process good musical scoring, graphics, and programming have on it. Key Words: disenfranchisement and convenience.
Jesus Christ. I have no words. I will say this though.
That, or people who have a relatively marginal interest in game making as an overall whole. As fun as it is, game making is a secondary hobby for me. What if I'm just not interested enough in it? What if I legitmately have better shit to do, or, more likely, I just want to devote that time elsewhere? I have absolutely mucho respect for those who decide to go custom for any aspect of a game, but projecting the 'I'm serious about game making and you should be too' attitude on pursuers of a hobby isn't constructive for anyone.
Also there's more to a game than graphics. Assuming my game is a mockery of FF because I like to edit and mess around with the graphics is pretty funny of you to say, and honestly, TFT can say some off the wall stuff, but not many people doubt his creative abilities, so ragging on his visual expression of his games well, just makes you look like an asshole. Rag on rip usin' Mog all you want, but to call out someone who actually DOES custom work for his games as 'jokes', I mean, for real? Who do you think you are?
Ciel said it best;
People who use RM and rip graphics are lazy-ass people.
That, or people who have a relatively marginal interest in game making as an overall whole. As fun as it is, game making is a secondary hobby for me. What if I'm just not interested enough in it? What if I legitmately have better shit to do, or, more likely, I just want to devote that time elsewhere? I have absolutely mucho respect for those who decide to go custom for any aspect of a game, but projecting the 'I'm serious about game making and you should be too' attitude on pursuers of a hobby isn't constructive for anyone.
Also there's more to a game than graphics. Assuming my game is a mockery of FF because I like to edit and mess around with the graphics is pretty funny of you to say, and honestly, TFT can say some off the wall stuff, but not many people doubt his creative abilities, so ragging on his visual expression of his games well, just makes you look like an asshole. Rag on rip usin' Mog all you want, but to call out someone who actually DOES custom work for his games as 'jokes', I mean, for real? Who do you think you are?
Ciel said it best;
lets put an end to rips and other premade graphics
nobody played, had fun with, or was inspired by legion saga balmung rose chronicles naufragar legend of the philosophers stone phantom legacy ara fell rise of the third power kindred saga so it is okay if we frown upon or outright ban the methods used for their creation for all future games nothing will be lost and there is so much to gain (earthbound/mspaint graphics + respect from tigsource(!!!))
we must put an end to assets that can be utilized in hobby game making to communicate a narrative to an audience in an effective and visually pleasing manner
author=Radnenthis isn't about them
RPGMaker spoon feeds so damn much and simplifies an extreme amount of details about what goes into an RPG, that it'd be pure folly to not do *something* out of the way and make custom graphics.
@Feld: You have no idea how much harder it is to not only make custom graphics but an entire RPG subsystem. So RPGMaker should encourage custom graphics. People who use RM and rip graphics are lazy-ass people.
However! Salerius, Feld and TFT, to call names since its important when debating what you think is right, since your work must reflect your viewpoint, it seems that all of you have fallen victim to non-custom graphics, and almost contradictory. Salerius especially has more completed games by not drawing 100% custom graphics, but does this mean they play better or worse? I do believe Vacant Sky did have some custom graphics (as it's selling point), therefore why does he discourage it completely? Feld's game seems to be an FF rip, so I'm at a crossroads, how will your game compare to FF, or otherwise I'd believe you're just making a mockery of it and the artist would be rolling in his chair (since he's still alive) I can say your game looks the best, but you didn't do shit in the art dept.. And TFT's games look like jokes, so why is he talking about effort when Ghost in a Bottle is "an ass game"?
if you can make custom games than make custom games
if you see something exactly what you're looking for rip it
if you are to far in production don't make custom graphics but, consider them for another game
If you suck at pixel art/art of any kind don't use RM.
If you are a good writer: Write a story.
People want to create that "childhood game they wished for so long" but its a farcry and false reality.
http://rpgmaker.net/games/82/
Go home.
