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PREVIOUSLY SUCCESSFUL IPS AND HOW TO REVIVE THEM.
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prexus
309
prexus
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CloseRepost from the Genre Death thread
While Genres aren't going anywhere any time soon. The topic of "Previously Successful IPs and their recent incarnations." is worth discussing.
Because, let's face it. There hasn't been a Mega Man X game with innovation since Mega Man X4.
But how would you revive that Franchise?
Adding RPG Elements didn't work. Battle Network/Legends were a completely different style of game, and could easily have dropped the Mega Man name. Zero/ZX were competent games, but nothing innovative and the RPG Elements might as well not have existed.
Mega Man ZX attempted to have the game follow a proper story, as opposed to a quick introduction, X amount of Boss Battles, then a final gauntlet towards the end boss. As far as I am concerned, this did not help the franchise but it didn't hurt it. I found it funny, though, because most IPs are working on becoming non-linear, where the 'Innovation' in Mega Man was to make it more linear.
I think A.R.E.S. Extinction Agenda is a good take on the Mega Man-style. I haven't played any more than the Demo, but the activeness of upgrading parts and weapons mid-level was a neat concept. The added suits were a hand-off to the additional suits in the later Mega Man X games, which were a good idea. The concept is the same as Zero in Mega Man X4, though. A different style of play in the same engine.
I wonder if removing the 'Stagger' from being hit, and replacing the Energy (health) Bar system with an 'Avoid Damage to Recover' system, like seen in recent First Person Shooters would be worth trying? I always found that Mega Man could play a little bit like a Bullet-Hell SHMUP, at times. Although in that scenario, the Platforming elements would need to be almost removed, as it is hard enough to platform in Mega Man games, let alone dodge hundreds of bullets at the same time.
Any other ideas? Or other IPs that you think could use revitalization, or have tried revitalization done so poorly in the past?
While Genres aren't going anywhere any time soon. The topic of "Previously Successful IPs and their recent incarnations." is worth discussing.
Because, let's face it. There hasn't been a Mega Man X game with innovation since Mega Man X4.
But how would you revive that Franchise?
Adding RPG Elements didn't work. Battle Network/Legends were a completely different style of game, and could easily have dropped the Mega Man name. Zero/ZX were competent games, but nothing innovative and the RPG Elements might as well not have existed.
Mega Man ZX attempted to have the game follow a proper story, as opposed to a quick introduction, X amount of Boss Battles, then a final gauntlet towards the end boss. As far as I am concerned, this did not help the franchise but it didn't hurt it. I found it funny, though, because most IPs are working on becoming non-linear, where the 'Innovation' in Mega Man was to make it more linear.
I think A.R.E.S. Extinction Agenda is a good take on the Mega Man-style. I haven't played any more than the Demo, but the activeness of upgrading parts and weapons mid-level was a neat concept. The added suits were a hand-off to the additional suits in the later Mega Man X games, which were a good idea. The concept is the same as Zero in Mega Man X4, though. A different style of play in the same engine.
I wonder if removing the 'Stagger' from being hit, and replacing the Energy (health) Bar system with an 'Avoid Damage to Recover' system, like seen in recent First Person Shooters would be worth trying? I always found that Mega Man could play a little bit like a Bullet-Hell SHMUP, at times. Although in that scenario, the Platforming elements would need to be almost removed, as it is hard enough to platform in Mega Man games, let alone dodge hundreds of bullets at the same time.
Any other ideas? Or other IPs that you think could use revitalization, or have tried revitalization done so poorly in the past?
Shinan
4314
I wouldn't mind a new Fallout game. Those two games were pretty great and it would be neat to see more of it. On the other hand maybe two games aren't enough to really count as a proper IP (well there was Tactics, which was okay but also sort of sad) and I guess if they revived it now they'd probably turn into some kind of horrible real-time mess. Maybe even first person or something like that. It just wouldn't work. Sometimes it's probably best to just let those games lie.
As for Mega Man I think it found its niche in the Mega Man 9 and Mega Man 10 games. They could probably spit out 8-bit Mega Man games for very little money and make all the fans out there happy.
As for Mega Man I think it found its niche in the Mega Man 9 and Mega Man 10 games. They could probably spit out 8-bit Mega Man games for very little money and make all the fans out there happy.
prexus
309
There are 5 Fallout games, fyi. I'm assuming you are ignoring 3, and NV. Which is worth doing.
I think someone needs to make another 2D, Top Down Fallout before we can really assess what needs changing. Unfortunately with the Bethesda/Interplay fiasco, I don't know if that will ever happen.
*EDIT: Lol I totally missed that troll on Bethesda Fallouts. WELL PLAYED SIR!*
I didn't really like Mega Man 9 and Mega Man 10, personally. I don't think an IP should fall into a niche like that. The main focus of what I am thinking about is how to revive an IP. Letting Mega Man decay in a niche like that isn't very helpful. :(
I think someone needs to make another 2D, Top Down Fallout before we can really assess what needs changing. Unfortunately with the Bethesda/Interplay fiasco, I don't know if that will ever happen.
*EDIT: Lol I totally missed that troll on Bethesda Fallouts. WELL PLAYED SIR!*
I didn't really like Mega Man 9 and Mega Man 10, personally. I don't think an IP should fall into a niche like that. The main focus of what I am thinking about is how to revive an IP. Letting Mega Man decay in a niche like that isn't very helpful. :(
Ultima needs to come back, Age of Enlightenment style. The open world, the exploration, the freedom, the quest, the creator's self-insert, and writing beyond Robo Anime Space Pope. Go back to Ultima 7 for inspiration of gameplay and bring it up to date and look to Ultima 4 - 7 Part 2 for the writing. Drop the Guardian. Hell, even start up a new IP but in the same vein of Ultima.
Megaman ZX owned. It was nice to play a game with fantastic controls and enemies that required a pulse to beat. Missions were incredibly sloppy and the sidequests were hilariously tacked on but the core gameplay is fantastic, I love refighting the bosses (unfortunately P&P don't have any rematches, the refight is great and the fight in Advent is glorious), I generally just love the main game. The 8-bit Megaman don't tickle that quality platforming action fancy I've got.
*edit*
ZX Advent was far worse than ZX. Fuck Advent.
Megaman ZX owned. It was nice to play a game with fantastic controls and enemies that required a pulse to beat. Missions were incredibly sloppy and the sidequests were hilariously tacked on but the core gameplay is fantastic, I love refighting the bosses (unfortunately P&P don't have any rematches, the refight is great and the fight in Advent is glorious), I generally just love the main game. The 8-bit Megaman don't tickle that quality platforming action fancy I've got.
*edit*
ZX Advent was far worse than ZX. Fuck Advent.
Ogre Battle, where is the RTS army of mermaids and gryphons at?!
Or the TBS. Since half the series is RTS, half is TBS. :B
Or the TBS. Since half the series is RTS, half is TBS. :B
KisarethStudios
119
Just on a lark, I went onto Square-Enix's website, and I found their Chrono Trigger page (simple search popped it up). I should have copy/pasted what I sent to them, but essentially it was a request for them to remake Chrono Trigger or at least give it a proper sequel. That and I went into a lot of depth about if they want to stop their stock from falling, and make a great bottom line then they should start with a Chrono sequel and go from there.I knew nothing would really come of it, and lo' and behold two days later I get this in my email:
Remake of Chrono Trigger
Inbox
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Reply
support_na_cs@square-enix.com to me
show details Feb 1 (3 days ago)
Dear Customer, Regarding your request for console support. Please find your answer below.
We appreciate your feedback. It will be forwarded to my superiors. Thank you for taking the time to contact us today and we look forward to your opinions of our upcoming titles.
Thank you for contacting the SQUARE ENIX Support Center. For additional assistance with this issue, you can reply to this email directly. For assistance with a new issue, please visit the SQUARE ENIX Support Center at http://support.na.square-enix.com.
For the most part, it's just the brush-off of course. I wasn't even expecting a response so that was at least one bit of a pleasant surprise. Though the truth of the matter is that SE just doesn't give a hoot what their fans think anymore. Would you rather see FFXIII-2 or a proper sequel to Chrono Trigger? Obviously, I'd love to see the Chrono franchise make a comeback on the mainstream market, but how many years has it been since Chrono Cross? How many since Trigger? *sighs*
Remake of Chrono Trigger
Inbox
X
Reply
support_na_cs@square-enix.com to me
show details Feb 1 (3 days ago)
Dear Customer, Regarding your request for console support. Please find your answer below.
We appreciate your feedback. It will be forwarded to my superiors. Thank you for taking the time to contact us today and we look forward to your opinions of our upcoming titles.
Thank you for contacting the SQUARE ENIX Support Center. For additional assistance with this issue, you can reply to this email directly. For assistance with a new issue, please visit the SQUARE ENIX Support Center at http://support.na.square-enix.com.
For the most part, it's just the brush-off of course. I wasn't even expecting a response so that was at least one bit of a pleasant surprise. Though the truth of the matter is that SE just doesn't give a hoot what their fans think anymore. Would you rather see FFXIII-2 or a proper sequel to Chrono Trigger? Obviously, I'd love to see the Chrono franchise make a comeback on the mainstream market, but how many years has it been since Chrono Cross? How many since Trigger? *sighs*
prexus
309
I'd like to think that publishers and developers think as deeply about this sort of stuff as I do, but I don't know if that is the case.
But the Chrono Trigger franchise was popular because of it's story and humorous. To have a sequel be good enough to live up to Trigger, it would have to be written by the same writers (who I doubt are doing much writing these days.) The only Game Play mechanics that were particularly of note were the position/movement in the battle system, which the Tales of Series and Star Ocean have taken and made significantly better, and the amazing amount of alternate endings. Also New Game+, which has yet to be done properly (the point of NG+ isn't to make the game harder ala Demon Souls and Castle Crashers, its to make you so overpowered that certain scenarios happen differently.)
Not to say Chrono Trigger wasn't good, at all. I love that game. I think a remake in 3D like Chrono Trigger: Resurrection is warranted, but I don't think a proper sequel could be done well. Chrono Cross was a great attempt at it, actually. I really did like that game. But it was so different, it may as well have not been a Chrono game.
But the Chrono Trigger franchise was popular because of it's story and humorous. To have a sequel be good enough to live up to Trigger, it would have to be written by the same writers (who I doubt are doing much writing these days.) The only Game Play mechanics that were particularly of note were the position/movement in the battle system, which the Tales of Series and Star Ocean have taken and made significantly better, and the amazing amount of alternate endings. Also New Game+, which has yet to be done properly (the point of NG+ isn't to make the game harder ala Demon Souls and Castle Crashers, its to make you so overpowered that certain scenarios happen differently.)
Not to say Chrono Trigger wasn't good, at all. I love that game. I think a remake in 3D like Chrono Trigger: Resurrection is warranted, but I don't think a proper sequel could be done well. Chrono Cross was a great attempt at it, actually. I really did like that game. But it was so different, it may as well have not been a Chrono game.
author=prexus
Not to say Chrono Trigger wasn't good, at all. I love that game. I think a remake in 3D like Chrono Trigger: Resurrection is warranted, but I don't think a proper sequel could be done well. Chrono Cross was a great attempt at it, actually. I really did like that game. But it was so different, it may as well have not been a Chrono game.
Can I plug - was it you? - the person who made this point in the Final Fantasy fangames thread. A title gives people a preconception of what to expect in the game, and if it's too different, it fails to live up to the title. Even if it isn't inherently BAD.
prexus
309
No, that wasn't me.
When you give a game a name, based on an IP that is already rooted in a specific genre and style, you have every right to expect it to be familiar. As a marketer, it is your job to make sure that the gamers don't get that idea, if its a misconception.
Fallout: Tactics is a good example of this. The gameplay changed dramatically, even though the style and theme remained the same. This may or may not have lead to the bad sales, but I don't remember anyone complaining that it wasn't enough like Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 and that they were lied to.
It's not wrong for a company to take an IP in another direction. To use an example I used before, Mega Man Legends was a good game. It was a completely different direction for an IP. It was made fairly clear it wasn't the same style of game, the box art alone was enough to tell that. Had it been called Megaman 8, people would have been misled to think it was a side-scrolling shooter/platformer. It wasn't, and they would have been pretty pissed about it. Whether they liked the game or not.
When you give a game a name, based on an IP that is already rooted in a specific genre and style, you have every right to expect it to be familiar. As a marketer, it is your job to make sure that the gamers don't get that idea, if its a misconception.
Fallout: Tactics is a good example of this. The gameplay changed dramatically, even though the style and theme remained the same. This may or may not have lead to the bad sales, but I don't remember anyone complaining that it wasn't enough like Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 and that they were lied to.
It's not wrong for a company to take an IP in another direction. To use an example I used before, Mega Man Legends was a good game. It was a completely different direction for an IP. It was made fairly clear it wasn't the same style of game, the box art alone was enough to tell that. Had it been called Megaman 8, people would have been misled to think it was a side-scrolling shooter/platformer. It wasn't, and they would have been pretty pissed about it. Whether they liked the game or not.
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