GIVING FEEDBACK: PASS OR FAIL
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the thing is if you force an arbitrary time limit on yourself you don't really allow yourself to "get into" the game. You rush in order to cram in as much of the game as possibe in 10 mins and wind up confusing yourself or not really reading any of the text which in an rpg is sure to make you lose interest fast. Had he actually took his time with it and still didn't like it I'd understand a bit better but it really seems like he is keeping the time limit in the back of his mind in all of these. Agitation if a game wants you to explore an area, skipping text, not reading signs or checking anything out, panicy movement when not exactly sure what to do next, etc.
not that i'm bitter of course :3
tee hee
not that i'm bitter of course :3
tee hee
Speed run for a first time player.
You're not bitter. Its a valid point. Both sides have valid points.
RPGs are marathons.
You're not bitter. Its a valid point. Both sides have valid points.
RPGs are marathons.
author=kentona
Can't we all just get along?
yessir, mr. buzzlight year. :]
your avatar always makes me picture tim allen wearing a buzz lightyear suit typing these nice things.
it's that enthusiastic smirk he has too, lol.
But I think some people are kinda missing the point here.
These 10minute playthroughs aren't supposed to be indepth feedback sources, simply first impressions of one guy.
and I actually got some nice feedback for it being so short, as I haven't seen my game through the eyes of someone else playing, and that in it self is worth it.
Yeah, people are missing the point entirely. It's not "this game sucks or is awesome", but rather "is the game interesting enough in the beginning to keep me playing". This is why ff13 failed in my book, because it took 12 hours of gameplay before it got good, but I wasn't interested enough in playing it that long. How about instead of bashing him for what he said about your game, work on it so that its interesting enough for other people to play. Make it stand out. Make it pop. Don't be another statistic for this site's millions of cliche rpgs.
@Yoshio:
As I've said in the first message:
And also:
If anything, it will provide a video as to what your game looks like. Also, I would like to point out that I didn't think your game sucked, I just wasn't interested enough to continue playing it.
I think it's a good idea to indicate where some things are such as in pots and the like. Baldur's gate did the exact same thing by pressing the ''tab'' key. If someone prefers to check every single container to find hidden item, good for them, whatever floats their boat. I for one, don't like it and don't think it's a good design decision.
As I've said in the first message:
this is just my opinion. I strongly encourage people to try the games by themselves and to make up their own mind
And also:
"is the game interesting enough in the beginning to keep me playing"
If anything, it will provide a video as to what your game looks like. Also, I would like to point out that I didn't think your game sucked, I just wasn't interested enough to continue playing it.
I think it's a good idea to indicate where some things are such as in pots and the like. Baldur's gate did the exact same thing by pressing the ''tab'' key. If someone prefers to check every single container to find hidden item, good for them, whatever floats their boat. I for one, don't like it and don't think it's a good design decision.
I'll just say that he should try harder not to think about the time limit for future games, I'm left not knowing whether or not I should throw the feedback out entirely or if this is the same first 10 minute expereince for most people who are playing the game normally
of course when you already have a positive review that tends to make you a bit more indignant than you otherwise would be
edit: yeah i'm the type to check absolutely everything in a town so I guess i built my game that way, almost everything there can be interacted with and many things actually say something new if you check them a second time. Since this is second nature to me and to alot of other players than just a simple directive (blue haired kid tells you to go back to your house next) and a clue (sign in front saying this is your house) ought to be enough. Several other characters also mentioned the objective but it's not like I didn't know this game wasn't a hit or miss type of game.
I think you are going about this with the right attitude, what is bothering me is some of the other posters being all "first impressions are important these games don't make good first impressions you shouldn't have to say it gets better later blah blah blah" makes me a bit annoyed cause it seems not everyone is getting the "this is the opinion of one person who is not trying to determine whether or not the intro is objectively good or bad" part of this whole thing. I resent being compared to FF13
of course when you already have a positive review that tends to make you a bit more indignant than you otherwise would be
edit: yeah i'm the type to check absolutely everything in a town so I guess i built my game that way, almost everything there can be interacted with and many things actually say something new if you check them a second time. Since this is second nature to me and to alot of other players than just a simple directive (blue haired kid tells you to go back to your house next) and a clue (sign in front saying this is your house) ought to be enough. Several other characters also mentioned the objective but it's not like I didn't know this game wasn't a hit or miss type of game.
I think you are going about this with the right attitude, what is bothering me is some of the other posters being all "first impressions are important these games don't make good first impressions you shouldn't have to say it gets better later blah blah blah" makes me a bit annoyed cause it seems not everyone is getting the "this is the opinion of one person who is not trying to determine whether or not the intro is objectively good or bad" part of this whole thing. I resent being compared to FF13
I should throw the feedback out entirely
You knew what you were getting, and you submitting your game anyway. A fail indicates that you need to grab the players attention better somehow.
of course when you already have a positive review that tends to make you a bit more indignant than you otherwise would be
By all means do. You are 100% free to disregard everything I've said about your game. I by no means represent all of the players as a whole. It's just my opinion, man, just my opinion. If you think it's shit, then forget about it, no big deal. You knew I'd play 10 minutes, accepted to play by the rules and that's it.
I don't understand the point of this. 15 minutes is nothing. That's not even long enough to learn how to play the game in any but the simplest, most boring games. If you were reviewing the first several hours I could see this being useful - that is how long it takes most strategy/rpg/adventure games to get rolling. But if your game starts with a tutorial, 15 minutes isn't even enough time to finish the tutorial. If your game starts in a town, it's not even enough time to get to look around the whole town. If your game starts in a dungeon, it's only two or three battles. Regardless of how your game is set up, it's not long enough to understand the game.
Thanks for your input.
I agree with you that 15 minutes is a bit short. The best thing would be to put hours into the game, that much is true. Would you have time to plow through the hundreds of games available here for hours? I don't have the time to do so. I think 15 minutes is enough to get a general first impression. It is ultimately not about the whole game but about the beginning of the game
Either way, this is how I play RPGs. I don't talk to every NPC and read every single bit of dialogue and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
This thread just strikes me as problematic. Don't encourage designers to spend more effort on superficial appearances than on meaningful content and depth. The first 15 minutes of a game is just superficial. I love feedback, but play at least a few hours so that your feedback is meaningful and not misleading.
I'm sre you know as well I that some games have a first 15 minutes that literally suck you into the game. It doesn't have to be the graphics. I don't know if you've played many RPGs and I'm assuming you have I'm sure you could come up with some examples of games that start strong such as Earthbound, Lufia or even Final Fantasy VII who put you in the driver seat right away.
Sorry if that sounds offensive, but consider it my feedback on your thread. (After reading through the entire thing, I might add
I doesn't sound offensive at all. I think you bring in some valid points.
If your game does not catch a person's interest within the first fifteen minutes, it can definitely be improved.
Disclaimer: Did not read entire thread, this post should be looked at SOLELY in the context of the OP.
Creation, you are obviously free to offer feedback however you see fit, but I do not consider this particular format to be especially helpful. If you are interested, we can discuss my reasoning behind that statement.
Creation, you are obviously free to offer feedback however you see fit, but I do not consider this particular format to be especially helpful. If you are interested, we can discuss my reasoning behind that statement.
@Max: Feel free to give your opinion although I reserve the right to disagree with you. If that's something you can handle, shoot away.
I'll be doing Zephyr's game next.
I'll be doing Zephyr's game next.
I invite Karsuman, Infectionfiles, and Necrile to play the game themselves and then express what they think
I'll give it a whirl later on, Yoshio. I hope my game passes Creation's test when it eventually comes out D:
author=Karsuman
If your game does not catch a person's interest within the first fifteen minutes, it can definitely be improved.
I agree with this, but with the caveat of "...or the game is not a good fit for that person".
People's tastes are different, and perhaps that person isn't your ideal target audience.
author=kentonaauthor=KarsumanI agree with this, but with the caveat of "...or the game is not a good fit for that person".
If your game does not catch a person's interest within the first fifteen minutes, it can definitely be improved.
People's tastes are different, and perhaps that person isn't your ideal target audience.
I completely agree. It seems to be the trend, though, to raise an outcry based on this. Something like "you aren't my ideal target audience so you can't review my game (accurately)" which I really don't agree with.
Hey! (Sorry for the late reply)
Thanks for playing man :D Yeah it's short and messy and weird I know.. But I made it in 3 and a half days for the weekend event that was recently on so that's my excuse :P (and I don't have the requisite SKILLZ to make something polished and nice in 3 days like some of the other entries :/)
Really enjoyed watching the video back man, thanks for doing that :)
Thanks for playing man :D Yeah it's short and messy and weird I know.. But I made it in 3 and a half days for the weekend event that was recently on so that's my excuse :P (and I don't have the requisite SKILLZ to make something polished and nice in 3 days like some of the other entries :/)
Really enjoyed watching the video back man, thanks for doing that :)
Thanks for the feedback, Creation. I prefer the RTP to any custom graphics out there, even Mack which is why I used it.
And that's cool Carvonica, that's your right and I respect that. I don't actually have any trouble with the art itself, it looks great. What bothers me is that so many projects end up using the same graphics and end up looking very similar.
Very true, maybe I should add this to the first post of this thread.
Metal Gear Solid by Zephyr
I'm open to new submissions for the next one. Any game is welcome as long as you're the author.
I agree with this, but with the caveat of "...or the game is not a good fit for that person".
People's tastes are different, and perhaps that person isn't your ideal target audience.
Very true, maybe I should add this to the first post of this thread.
Metal Gear Solid by Zephyr
I'm open to new submissions for the next one. Any game is welcome as long as you're the author.
Zephyr, that looks really good! The only thing I can say after watching that video is that I'm a bit dissapointed you didn't bother to use existing corporations, or tie it in the timeline of metal gear solid. Is this supposed to be before big boss makes outer haven? Is the protagonist solid snake or big boss? Maybe I'm being to picky because I'm a fanboy, but shit like that irks me. Also once again Creation, a job well done.
























