Full Games List
Featured Games
New Games
Reviews
Images
Blogs
Game Updates
Images Feedback Summary
Game Design Highlights
Tutorials
Articles
Scripts
Utilities / Plugins
Resources
Engines
Engine Bulletins
What is Makerscore?
Past Events
Achievements
Forums
Post History
Chat
New to RMN?
Full Store List
RMN Music Pack (free)
5 reviews
Add Review
Subscribe
Nominate
Submit Media
RSS
What happens next
Nightblade- 06/24/2011 11:40 PM
- 6418 views
Posts 
Pages:
1
View playlists
Close
Dyhalto
7536
If security guards in the US are anything like security guards in Canada, the pay is only slightly above minimum wage. It's really not a way to spend the rest of your life. As for your student debt, I still say what can't be paid won't be paid.
By all means, work and accumulate money. But on the side, think about getting yourself a trade like plumbing, carpentry, auto mechanics, machine operation, etc. It sounds demeaning at first because popular culture depicts white collar as stylish and cool while blue collar is grungy and lower class, but when it comes down to it, you are your best asset. Knowledge is power.
btw, who drew the phantom in your 'release day' blog?
By all means, work and accumulate money. But on the side, think about getting yourself a trade like plumbing, carpentry, auto mechanics, machine operation, etc. It sounds demeaning at first because popular culture depicts white collar as stylish and cool while blue collar is grungy and lower class, but when it comes down to it, you are your best asset. Knowledge is power.
btw, who drew the phantom in your 'release day' blog?
Darken
3952
I really don't think you should give up on this project. Just take a break like you said.
Learning from your mistakes on a unfinished game is nothing compared to actually completing a game. It's sad that we honour deadly accurate criticism yet at the same time want games to be completed. I am the few that enjoyed the demo (idk maybe it's because I have a foggy memory of the last iteration). But just fix things that are undeniably flawed and move on.
Learning from your mistakes on a unfinished game is nothing compared to actually completing a game. It's sad that we honour deadly accurate criticism yet at the same time want games to be completed. I am the few that enjoyed the demo (idk maybe it's because I have a foggy memory of the last iteration). But just fix things that are undeniably flawed and move on.
Nightblade
2723
author=Darken
I really don't think you should give up on this project. Just take a break like you said.
Learning from your mistakes on a unfinished game is nothing compared to actually completing a game. It's sad that we honour deadly accurate criticism yet at the same time want games to be completed. I am the few that enjoyed the demo (idk maybe it's because I have a foggy memory of the last iteration). But just fix things that are undeniably flawed and move on.
Well I would have to re-write a lot. The demo kind of lacked a lot of the character interaction I like to put in because of how the story flowed. Difficulty and balance can be easily changed, but after altering the game so much it's really hard to go back and alter it yet again.
Nightblade
2723
author=Dyhalto
If security guards in the US are anything like security guards in Canada, the pay is only slightly above minimum wage. It's really not a way to spend the rest of your life. As for your student debt, I still say what can't be paid won't be paid.
I have no intention of actually paying the loan unless I can do so all at once. Security guards here make a decent wage depending on where you land and it's not a permanent solution. I just need something better than this retail "OH LOOK YOU ONLY WORK TWO DAYS THIS WEEK" crap... and freelancing is proving to be not worth the hassle or risk.
By all means, work and accumulate money. But on the side, think about getting yourself a trade like plumbing, carpentry, auto mechanics, machine operation, etc. It sounds demeaning at first because popular culture depicts white collar as stylish and cool while blue collar is grungy and lower class, but when it comes down to it, you are your best asset. Knowledge is power.
btw, who drew the phantom in your 'release day' blog?
My brother drew it. I can't pester him for too much though; he's a busy guy.
Neophyte
155
I think most of the mistakes came from miscommunication between you and the players. I don't think anybody understood the mummy puzzle, and there were issues with the barrier boss. You gave hints, but finding the hints were a puzzle themselves. You have to be a little more upfront about certain mechanics. But like Darken, I still really enjoyed this. Expanding into other genres would be interesting to see from you as well, though!
OK, now you're overreacting. This is going to be a long post, so brace yourself...
It is my belief that PL is a good game with the potential to become great. Even though it might've seemed I disliked the game given how critical I was about some of its aspects, the sole fact that I spent so much time playing and talking about it means I think the game's worthwhile. It's a solid game, but if you spent more time on it it'd be awesome. There's one thing I don't understand, and understand at the same time. You had a good game before (the old demo) and instead of building upon that you scrapped and restarted it all. You wasted countless hours of your life and work for nothing. And don't give me the crap about being dissatisfied about the old version, people liked it. If you keep remaking your game because IT'S NOT PERFECT!! you'll never finish it and get frustrated. Stick with what you have and expand upon it; it's better to finish a game that COULD BE better, than not finish an AWESOME! game. Only by finishing projects do you actually learn anything (I sense a flame war incoming, but that's my view on it) and not only that, you build your PR and awareness of you as a designer. No one cares about the guy that had mockups of 10 killer games but no releases, people care about the guy that has 3 solid games under his belt. When he releases the fourth one, people will want to play it!
The coffin puzzle was OK, but gave no hint to how it's supposed to be solved, or that it is even a puzzle. I only got the hint AFTER solving it. I'd elaborate on this but I'm too tired from writing the rest of this comment, so maybe later :)
The characters suffered from too few lines that were about characterization. Most of the stuff they said was pure exposition: where do we go, what do we do, who is this guy... This CAN work (recall Valkyrie Profile), but your game is too traditional for it.
Finally, you mention you'd like to pickup pixelart and maybe even learn a new maker. Frankly, this is a road to nowhere. When I started pixeling it was either late 2003 or early 2004. After 7 years I'm finally confident I could make all the graphics for an RPG, and that's after making tilesets for two whole indie MMORPGs. The problem is... making graphics is only half the battle. I'd say even less than that. And this brings me to another issue - when you're free of the shackles that are the limited number and nature of premade assets, you realize you can make ANY GAME YOU WISH. In any setting, with any characters you can dream of, with lots, and lots of awesome effects... You start making a game, and a month later you change your mind, because, you know, this project leads to nowhere and there is another concept that's sooo much better. And then you scrap all the graphics you've made and start anew, because the old ones are incompatible with what you have now in mind. And after some time you change your mind again. And again. And again. And every time you do this you start from scratch. This is the sole reason I haven't been able to release anything after I switched to custom graphics. I have so many ideas about settings and graphic styles it makes it impossible to create a set that would be enough for a whole game.
BUT! As I've said graphics are just a fraction of the assets and work for a game. And they're the easier part. Once you switch to a maker with more power you'll face the same issue again - too many possibilities. This is precisely why there are no fully custom RPGs out there that are not either small projects or indie games (as in semi-commercial, with a budget). It's just too time-consuming and too motivation-consuming to create an RPG by yourself, especially with custom assets. The amount of graphics required alone is staggering compared to platformers. Amateur game designers churn out lots and lots of good action games. Why? Because they're easy to make, at least compared to RPGs. You need few resources, they're easy to draw, you need no plot or character interaction, the engine is easy compared to all the algorithms and balancing in an RPG... I could go on. To finish a custom game you need a shitload of motivation and a good work ethic, and judging by your history of releases you possess neither. And don't take it personally; I think you'll agree with me on this. Not that there are many people that made such games, maybe the Cave Story guy...
The bottom line is - if you're thinking about making a Phantom Legacy-like game with custom graphics, then stop. Stop immediately, unless you like being disappointed with yourself and your work. Bitter? Maybe, however I'd say realistic given the evidence in the game making world. I say keep doing what you've been doing and do it well. As for little feedback on PL, to change it you need to advertise the shit out of it EVERYWHERE. Posting it on just on RMN will generate very few comments. Why do you think Barkley and that Craze game and Space Funeral got popular? Because people talked about them on sites that have nothing to do with RM. You may loathe hype or marketing, but it's the only way to make your game popular and PLAYED. Oh, and just posting about it is not enough, you need to get people hooked with some clever marketing tricks. What tricks? I don't know, I don't hype :)
Wow, this is a long stream of consciousness, I hope I didn't come off as rambling. If you wish to talk about it more, feel free to send me a PM.
It is my belief that PL is a good game with the potential to become great. Even though it might've seemed I disliked the game given how critical I was about some of its aspects, the sole fact that I spent so much time playing and talking about it means I think the game's worthwhile. It's a solid game, but if you spent more time on it it'd be awesome. There's one thing I don't understand, and understand at the same time. You had a good game before (the old demo) and instead of building upon that you scrapped and restarted it all. You wasted countless hours of your life and work for nothing. And don't give me the crap about being dissatisfied about the old version, people liked it. If you keep remaking your game because IT'S NOT PERFECT!! you'll never finish it and get frustrated. Stick with what you have and expand upon it; it's better to finish a game that COULD BE better, than not finish an AWESOME! game. Only by finishing projects do you actually learn anything (I sense a flame war incoming, but that's my view on it) and not only that, you build your PR and awareness of you as a designer. No one cares about the guy that had mockups of 10 killer games but no releases, people care about the guy that has 3 solid games under his belt. When he releases the fourth one, people will want to play it!
The coffin puzzle was OK, but gave no hint to how it's supposed to be solved, or that it is even a puzzle. I only got the hint AFTER solving it. I'd elaborate on this but I'm too tired from writing the rest of this comment, so maybe later :)
The characters suffered from too few lines that were about characterization. Most of the stuff they said was pure exposition: where do we go, what do we do, who is this guy... This CAN work (recall Valkyrie Profile), but your game is too traditional for it.
Finally, you mention you'd like to pickup pixelart and maybe even learn a new maker. Frankly, this is a road to nowhere. When I started pixeling it was either late 2003 or early 2004. After 7 years I'm finally confident I could make all the graphics for an RPG, and that's after making tilesets for two whole indie MMORPGs. The problem is... making graphics is only half the battle. I'd say even less than that. And this brings me to another issue - when you're free of the shackles that are the limited number and nature of premade assets, you realize you can make ANY GAME YOU WISH. In any setting, with any characters you can dream of, with lots, and lots of awesome effects... You start making a game, and a month later you change your mind, because, you know, this project leads to nowhere and there is another concept that's sooo much better. And then you scrap all the graphics you've made and start anew, because the old ones are incompatible with what you have now in mind. And after some time you change your mind again. And again. And again. And every time you do this you start from scratch. This is the sole reason I haven't been able to release anything after I switched to custom graphics. I have so many ideas about settings and graphic styles it makes it impossible to create a set that would be enough for a whole game.
BUT! As I've said graphics are just a fraction of the assets and work for a game. And they're the easier part. Once you switch to a maker with more power you'll face the same issue again - too many possibilities. This is precisely why there are no fully custom RPGs out there that are not either small projects or indie games (as in semi-commercial, with a budget). It's just too time-consuming and too motivation-consuming to create an RPG by yourself, especially with custom assets. The amount of graphics required alone is staggering compared to platformers. Amateur game designers churn out lots and lots of good action games. Why? Because they're easy to make, at least compared to RPGs. You need few resources, they're easy to draw, you need no plot or character interaction, the engine is easy compared to all the algorithms and balancing in an RPG... I could go on. To finish a custom game you need a shitload of motivation and a good work ethic, and judging by your history of releases you possess neither. And don't take it personally; I think you'll agree with me on this. Not that there are many people that made such games, maybe the Cave Story guy...
The bottom line is - if you're thinking about making a Phantom Legacy-like game with custom graphics, then stop. Stop immediately, unless you like being disappointed with yourself and your work. Bitter? Maybe, however I'd say realistic given the evidence in the game making world. I say keep doing what you've been doing and do it well. As for little feedback on PL, to change it you need to advertise the shit out of it EVERYWHERE. Posting it on just on RMN will generate very few comments. Why do you think Barkley and that Craze game and Space Funeral got popular? Because people talked about them on sites that have nothing to do with RM. You may loathe hype or marketing, but it's the only way to make your game popular and PLAYED. Oh, and just posting about it is not enough, you need to get people hooked with some clever marketing tricks. What tricks? I don't know, I don't hype :)
Wow, this is a long stream of consciousness, I hope I didn't come off as rambling. If you wish to talk about it more, feel free to send me a PM.
No one cares about the guy that had mockups of 10 killer games but no releases, people care about the guy that has 3 solid games under his belt.
From what I've seen this is literally the opposite of how this community works.
This community doesn't play games so it doesn't count. I was thinking about the big picture, the sites and communities not focused on game design.
author=DE
This community doesn't play games so it doesn't count. I was thinking about the big picture, the sites and communities not focused on game design.
What.
mellytan
995
author=DE
This community doesn't play games so it doesn't count.
i got this part
author=DE
BUT! As I've said graphics are just a fraction of the assets and work for a game. And they're the easier part. Once you switch to a maker with more power you'll face the same issue again - too many possibilities. This is precisely why there are no fully custom RPGs out there that are not either small projects or indie games
listen to DE
Dyhalto
7536
author=benosauthor=DEWhat.
This community doesn't play games so it doesn't count. I was thinking about the big picture, the sites and communities not focused on game design.
There aren't more than 100 regularly active users with something to say here. Meanwhile, Hero's Realm has over 11,000 downloads. You and I and everyone else on this forum are statistically insignificant. If Kentona releases a game "From the Maker of Hero's Realm", players will line up for it.
DE makes a lot of good points. I've been considering a "small" release using readily-available graphics. My problem is, I always want to expand and get a custom menu system, which will need a custom battle system, and a custom inventory system, and oh wait I need more characters and...
If it counts for anything, I really liked the demo despite the lackluster character dialogue (which IMO can be easily fixed): giving each character unique skills was an excellent idea, music was wonderful, presentation was top-notch and I could probably go on. Would hate to see this project discontinued.
Also while I can understand the issue with the penultimate battle, I can't see how anyone with at least a little bit of RPG know-how would have a problem with the barrier boss...
Also while I can understand the issue with the penultimate battle, I can't see how anyone with at least a little bit of RPG know-how would have a problem with the barrier boss...
Nightblade
2723
The bottom line is - if you're thinking about making a Phantom Legacy-like game with custom graphics, then stop. Stop immediately, unless you like being disappointed with yourself and your work. Bitter? Maybe, however I'd say realistic given the evidence in the game making world. I say keep doing what you've been doing and do it well. As for little feedback on PL, to change it you need to advertise the shit out of it EVERYWHERE. Posting it on just on RMN will generate very few comments. Why do you think Barkley and that Craze game and Space Funeral got popular? Because people talked about them on sites that have nothing to do with RM. You may loathe hype or marketing, but it's the only way to make your game popular and PLAYED. Oh, and just posting about it is not enough, you need to get people hooked with some clever marketing tricks. What tricks? I don't know, I don't hype :)
You're under the assumption that I was planning to make an RPG when I haven't even decided what I'm doing next. I know this much though, I'm not going to attempt making something advanced like an RPG with my first game-maker game.
author=Dyhaltoauthor=benosThere aren't more than 100 regularly active users with something to say here. Meanwhile, Hero's Realm has over 11,000 downloads. You and I and everyone else on this forum are statistically insignificant. If Kentona releases a game "From the Maker of Hero's Realm", players will line up for it.author=DEWhat.
This community doesn't play games so it doesn't count. I was thinking about the big picture, the sites and communities not focused on game design.
This is true. The amount of activity generated from the vocal rpgmaker.net members is... not really that much when compared to the overall activity at the site from unregistered or non-posting users. Which is why sometimes I listen more to what the numbers say than whatever the current dramafest is on the forums.
Rolandknight
83
author=Dyhaltowe need teams! A team that will cover each other weak point in making a rpg or whatever! It could work...if you can find the right team...author=benosThere aren't more than 100 regularly active users with something to say here. Meanwhile, Hero's Realm has over 11,000 downloads. You and I and everyone else on this forum are statistically insignificant. If Kentona releases a game "From the Maker of Hero's Realm", players will line up for it.author=DEWhat.
This community doesn't play games so it doesn't count. I was thinking about the big picture, the sites and communities not focused on game design.
DE makes a lot of good points. I've been considering a "small" release using readily-available graphics. My problem is, I always want to expand and get a custom menu system, which will need a custom battle system, and a custom inventory system, and oh wait I need more characters and...
Darken
3952
author=roland
we need teams! A team that will cover each other weak point in making a rpg or whatever! It could work...if you can find the right team...
What does that have to do with anything? Also teams are more about compatibility and getting things done rather than piling talent together to make the ultimate dream game.
Honestly, Phantom Legacy IS a GOOD game. 3.5 is good! Its disappointment, its unforgiving (its just shows how much we liked the first version)! This said, I suppose you're not looking for a job because of whatever response to your game! So, GO, GO, GO!or don't, I mean do whatever YOU decided (and don't let people interfere too much, I guess...?)
Pages:
1
