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Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
CloseSo I was playing a recently released RPG (that I won't name) I had a character join my party for the first six or so hours of the game. However, due to story events, the character leaves my party under conditions that make it VERY clear that she has no intention of joining again. Which is cool. I like that, especially because this character doesn't stop being important to the story just because she leaves my party.
What I DIDN'T like was, about ten or so hours later, I start coming across shops that sell equipment that ONLY that character can equip! And it isn't possible to arrive at those locations while that character is in the party. So now I know that the character is going to rejoin my party at some point in the story, so the shock/hype of that moment is going to be completely shattered.
That's not foreshadowing. It's spoiling. Don't do this.
What I DIDN'T like was, about ten or so hours later, I start coming across shops that sell equipment that ONLY that character can equip! And it isn't possible to arrive at those locations while that character is in the party. So now I know that the character is going to rejoin my party at some point in the story, so the shock/hype of that moment is going to be completely shattered.
That's not foreshadowing. It's spoiling. Don't do this.
The way shops in most RPGs are designed is horribly outdated anyways, but it'd really noticeable when stuff like this happens.
Ugh. Yeah, they totally dropped the ball on that (unless the person doesn't ever rejoin and they're just trolling you, but I doubt that XD)
B-B-But what if I WANT you to think you're getting that character back? Or they're an optional character that you just happened to miss out on recruiting early? Or you get a different character with the same weapon skills? Or there's not only sword-weilders in the world.
BRB, making weapon shop that has every weapon type when your character is only locked to swords.
BRB, making weapon shop that has every weapon type when your character is only locked to swords.
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
author=Pizza
The way shops in most RPGs are designed is horribly outdated anyways, but it'd really noticeable when stuff like this happens.
What's an example of a modern RPG shop design?
author=unity
Ugh. Yeah, they totally dropped the ball on that (unless the person doesn't ever rejoin and they're just trolling you, but I doubt that XD)
That'd be quite the troll!
author=Liberty
B-B-But what if I WANT you to think you're getting that character back?
Then make players think that they're getting that character back. establish intrigue. This isn't establishing intrigue. It's straight up confirming. There's no mystery.
Or they're an optional character that you just happened to miss out on recruiting early? Or you get a different character with the same weapon skills? Or there's not only sword-weilders in the world.
If you're thinking of a Suikoden style game, then it'd be acceptable. The game I'm talking about is not one of those. It's impossible for any other character to have a use for those weapons, so seeing them available in a shop leaves no room for doubt that the character is coming back.
BRB, making weapon shop that has every weapon type when your character is only locked to swords.
Why would you hurt me this way?
author=Red_Novaauthor=PizzaWhat's an example of a modern RPG shop design?
The way shops in most RPGs are designed is horribly outdated anyways, but it'd really noticeable when stuff like this happens.
In modern RPGs you don't give the player any choices - you just give them the next more powerful weapon in a linear fashion.
i know exactly what you're talking about and i have news for you
i won't tell you what kind of news or what news it is but
i won't tell you what kind of news or what news it is but
Easy on, Red, I was being facetious. (or trying to be)
Honestly, I don't mind that kind of thing in a game - it can be a little spoilery, yeah, but honestly I assume that if I had a character for a while, I'll probably end up getting them again some time in the future anyway.
I have done the 'shop with every weapon' thing before and the people I showed it to got angry because they wanted the characters who corresponded with those weapons... who didn't exist. Might have been because I had cool stuff like 'Chainsaw (hockey mask not included)' and 'Smoke gun', which were a lot more interesting than main character who just had a dagger. XD
Honestly, I don't mind that kind of thing in a game - it can be a little spoilery, yeah, but honestly I assume that if I had a character for a while, I'll probably end up getting them again some time in the future anyway.
I have done the 'shop with every weapon' thing before and the people I showed it to got angry because they wanted the characters who corresponded with those weapons... who didn't exist. Might have been because I had cool stuff like 'Chainsaw (hockey mask not included)' and 'Smoke gun', which were a lot more interesting than main character who just had a dagger. XD
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
author=kentonaauthor=Red_NovaIn modern RPGs you don't give the player any choices - you just give them the next more powerful weapon in a linear fashion.author=PizzaWhat's an example of a modern RPG shop design?
The way shops in most RPGs are designed is horribly outdated anyways, but it'd really noticeable when stuff like this happens.
IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW! Just take away options from the player! Man, that makes development so much easier!
author=Craze
i know exactly what you're talking about and i have news for you
i won't tell you what kind of news or what news it is but
ffffffffffffffff
author=Liberty
Easy on, Red, I was being facetious. (or trying to be)
Dammit why does this keep happening?! Would it be easier if I just stop taking anything you say seriously?
Honestly, I don't mind that kind of thing in a game - it can be a little spoilery, yeah, but honestly I assume that if I had a character for a while, I'll probably end up getting them again some time in the future anyway.
I have done the 'shop with every weapon' thing before and the people I showed it to got angry because they wanted the characters who corresponded with those weapons... who didn't exist. Might have been because I had cool stuff like 'Chainsaw (hockey mask not included)' and 'Smoke gun', which were a lot more interesting than main character who just had a dagger. XD
Bah. They can deal with it!
It *could* have been an oversight. Or maybe, another character would be able to use said equipment sometime in the future. Or a troll, like unity stated.
Like:
(Stick) -> (Stick with loose nail, Plank) -> (Stick with TWO loose nails, Stick with large loose nail, Wide-ass plank, Plank of STEEL)
(Generic) -> (Attack, Defense) -> (Attack, Defensive Attack, Offensive Defense, Defense)
author=kentonaIt's actually easier to have branching lines of weapons, where the higher-tier the beat stick, the more specific it becomes to a certain stat/effect/what-have-you it becomes.author=Red_NovaIn modern RPGs you don't give the player any choices - you just give them the next more powerful weapon in a linear fashion.author=PizzaWhat's an example of a modern RPG shop design?
The way shops in most RPGs are designed is horribly outdated anyways, but it'd really noticeable when stuff like this happens.
Like:
(Stick) -> (Stick with loose nail, Plank) -> (Stick with TWO loose nails, Stick with large loose nail, Wide-ass plank, Plank of STEEL)
(Generic) -> (Attack, Defense) -> (Attack, Defensive Attack, Offensive Defense, Defense)
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
I WILL PUT SPOILERS EVERYWHERE AND YOU CAN'T STOP ME
TheNecromancer
3160
author=Pizza
The way shops in most RPGs are designed is horribly outdated anyways, but it'd really noticeable when stuff like this happens.
My guess on what he means is that they are designed to be static. They have a list of available weapons and never change. As opposed to maybe, only showing weapons for available characters or having any kind of dynamic elements. Like you come back to town1 30 hours in and they aren't still selling butter knives.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
Rosebud's Revenge: Snape killed Dumbledore and now he must die!
Link_2112PizzaMy guess on what he means is that they are designed to be static. They have a list of available weapons and never change. As opposed to maybe, only showing weapons for available characters or having any kind of dynamic elements. Like you come back to town1 30 hours in and they aren't still selling butter knives.
The way shops in most RPGs are designed is horribly outdated anyways, but it'd really noticeable when stuff like this happens.
hi let me respond to this in a spoiler tag (not really spoilery at all and won't answer red_nova's actual quandry about the game/character at hand BUT)
the game has dynamic static shops. lol. basically, every item is "independent" like most wrpgs, since they can be combined and shit. even after this character leaves, some shops still have that character's low-tier items in their list of options to randomly put out for the player. i honestly think that the instance of some of that character's shitty (like, worst-tier) items being available in a later shop is a bug. of note is that enemies don't drop that character's two unique equip types.
author=Link_2112author=PizzaMy guess on what he means is that they are designed to be static. They have a list of available weapons and never change. As opposed to maybe, only showing weapons for available characters or having any kind of dynamic elements.
The way shops in most RPGs are designed is horribly outdated anyways, but it'd really noticeable when stuff like this happens.
This sort of factors into it, yeah. It's basically just that the shops are always "Items +1" and don't offer any narrative driven mechanical connection to the world, never change, never put interesting choices in the players court outside of "Do I want the fire or the ice variant of the +1 weapon?" The static-ness of shops and to a larger degree towns also factors into the whole "go here once and never come back" thing you see with a lot of RPG towns.
It's not like I have some magic cure all solution for it, but it would be nice to see shops that aren't just the bog standard thing all the time. Tales of Xillia comes to mind as at least attempting something interesting with its "investment" system.
I guess my big complaint is "make your setting as fun and believable as you can" or something. Idk.
I've considered doing the "every shop sells every available purchasable piece of equipment" thing and having the only limitation being the player's budget. Dunno if that has other negative consequences but I kinda like the idea ^^;
TheNecromancer
3160
Craze, I'm a bit confused because it sounds like you are talking about a specific game. I thought we were all talking in general terms? Since he (didn't name) I have no idea what you're talking about ^.^ but I suspect it is your game? heh
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
The example I gave was from a specific game and the discussion grew from there. Craze knew from that initial example exactly what game I was talking about.
