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Resources, originality and theft
author=S. F. LaValle link=topic=3324.msg66418#msg66418 date=1236913481Well you have to keep in mind I'm a Discordian. Nothing's simple in our minds. Except the stuff that is.
There has to be something we're missing, there's too many good points being made on both sides, yet this seems like such a boneheadedly-simple concept.
author=MayorAnime link=topic=3324.msg66422#msg66422 date=1236914516That's exactly what I'm saying. Death of the Author and all that. Once something enters the public sphere, the creator orphans it. It belongs to the world. You can pass laws or come up with social agreements to fight it, but it's all just people agreeing to pretend that it still belongs to you. And any of them who don't agree....don't.
Yeah, that's like saying that once you show your work off, it's everyone's property. assuming you didn't submit it as a resource for general use.
Resources, originality and theft
author=Karsuman link=topic=3324.msg66391#msg66391 date=1236906697"Fair Use," as it's known in the United States has been steadily eroded away over time, to the point that I'll be surprised if it even still exists in ten years if there isn't serious Intellectual Property Law reform, and a lot of countries don't recognize parody as a valid defense against plagiarism in the first place.
1) Pyramus and Thisbe is an old Roman story. Seeing as its original author was dead for well over a millennia, I don't think the writer would mind mockery of it.
2) There are provisions that allow for mockery of subject matter under law. Otherwise, all comedians would be in jail.
Not a good example in defense of your argument, either way.
I went with Pyramus and Thisbe and Romeo and Juliet because I figured they were well known enough that people would get the implication. Would you rather I had said Arsene Lupin and Lupin III? And that one is entirely cogent, as international differences in copyright laws have affected the ability of that one to be distributed in some countries.
I just assumed it was too esoteric a reference and the cultural importance of Lupin III might not be quite so respected as Shakespeare.
Even if it weren't though, treating how long the creator has been dead as a consideration just proves even more that this is an argument about the ability of the creator to extract profit out of his work, rather than anything about how morally correct it is to borrow from other sources when producing. Which brings it back to my "Salesman vs. Artist" dichotomy.
Dragonball: Fans of the anime will be apalled
author=Max McGee link=topic=3328.msg66334#msg66334 date=1236881186Dragonball Z is pretty fucking awful. Dragonball, on the other hand, was fairly delightful for a good chunk of it.I think we all found out about this like six months ago, dude.
I didn't, but I also don't care. Nothing against anime in general but dragonball is pretty fucking awful. This movie somehow looks even worse.
Actually, come to think of it, it's pretty hard to screw up anything that stars the Monkey King. I'm interested to see how the filmmakers are going to manage it.
Resources, originality and theft
author=harmonic link=topic=3324.msg66383#msg66383 date=1236905219
You are failing to take into account a great deal of important things, ST. By saying there are two kinds of people: Those who hoard their product for credz, and those who actually love doing it and will therefore just spread it everywhere.
That's an extremely presumptuous statement. Have you considered the possibility that one can love making the resource, value it, and not want to see it abused and misused? By assigning everyone into those two slots, you really manipulate the truth and reality. You're assuming that there are only two personalities in the world, jerk and hippy. That is not reality.
I am assuming that there are two priorities here: the jerk priority and the hippy priority, and that whatever way a person might lean, he's got to decide whether his jerk priority or his hippy priority takes precedent, sure. But in the end, those two drives come into conflict with one another.
Also, assigning value to art is what I'm talking about when I refer to commoditizing it. By even acknowledging that there is a right or a wrong way to use a resource is to assign those limitations that cripple it.
Look, what I'm getting at here is this: I hate to think that of the writer of Pyramus and Thisbe having veto power over how Shakespeare could use "his work" when he went to make Romeo and Juliet (or for that matter, a Midsummernight's Dream, which I like better anyway) because he thought he was "abusing his idea." Or that Shakespeare could've sued to stop Rosencrantz and Guildernstern are Dead. If I have to choose between their rights to have the purity of their creations left unsullied and getting a new, entertaining product that borrowed from earlier works....I gotta side with the plagiarists.
Actually, I'm pretty sure Shakespeare's epitaph reads "Plagiarism: Fuck Yeah!"
Resources, originality and theft
author=Karsuman link=topic=3324.msg66327#msg66327 date=1236878402For the same reason companies do anything: because they think it will improve their stock prices.
I am pretty sure you aren't living in the real world, ST.
Do you know why companies are so aggressive about defending their copyrights/patents/ trademarks?
What is your goal here? To create something out of love and passion for the what you're doing? Or to produce a product to be traded, whether for money, attention, respect, love, what have you? Because that pretty much sums up the dichotomy here: a person who is making a product is obviously going to want to hoard it to maximize their returns. A person who is more simply expressing himself, making sweet, sweet love to the medium, if you will....it seems to me that person would want the progeny of any such union to go out and spread to every mind it can touch, be that in its original form or in a form that has been altered.
Any artificial limitation on that progeny's ability to spread--be it a zero-sum game like money or an infinite resource like that elusive "credit" (which is basically just internet-speak for: "WHY AREN'T YOU LOOKING AT ME?!"), cripples the meme....closing the source, or declaring the resources "off-limits" is more like neutering it. You have ended its lineage, because any artist hoping to remix it or make a mashup, or even just use it as inspiration, is going to have to look out for the dreaded DMCA notice. Or even just a stupid shitstorm of "PLAGIARISM! GET THE TORCHES!" cries.
When I said "this is essentially Cybercommunism," I wasn't joking. I think all ideas and/or information, produced by anyone, and for any reason, belongs to everyone inherently, regardless of the economic laws we've passed. I recognize that in the real world, that's not true yet, and I respect the present social and legal contracts that make us recognize "ownership" over these ideas....even as I fear that they're slowly killing art and probably leading into the next Dark Age . I don't expect most of you to agree with me because too much of the world is firmly of the "I should get compensated for everything I do, if only with kudos" school of thinking. Regardless, I feel the need to express these thoughts in the hope that those of you who are doing it for love of the artform ask yourselves how your attitude towards what you've created affects the people who experience it. And maybe you won't come to the same conclusions I have. But you should at least question it.
Dragonball: Fans of the anime will be apalled
author=AznChipmunk link=topic=3328.msg66283#msg66283 date=1236837051You think that's bad, you should see the Avatar casting. In a show where the main characters were (at least visually) amerindians and asians, they managed to cast not a single non-white person in the principle cast.
This trailer has been out for ages. Also, I watched the anime tons and this attracts me more than the anime.
The only thing I don't really understand is why Goku is some white person. It's like the forbidden kingdom all over agin
Resources, originality and theft
author=Atavus Dei link=topic=3324.msg66319#msg66319 date=1236870589Causality takes care of that all by itself. They're not going to be able to steal your resources until you've released your game, which means it will have time to make its mark before they get a chance to muddy up your unique style. If you fail to make your mark before they've had time to create a game using your resources, then your game probably wasn't going to make much of a mark to begin with. In which case, nice to know someone might get some mileage out of the stuff you made, anyway, right?
If I want my game to stand out unique among a crowd of other amateur indie games, then what I'm suffering is not really physical damages, but damages to my game as being an individual. Also, the commercial games where this community has gained its rips from have already had their moments in history; for us, we don't have the luxury of an already-defined mental image backing us up.
I still say it's not worth stressing over. The universe handles this stuff for you.
Dragonball: Fans of the anime will be apalled
author=Mitsuhide_The_Vagrant link=topic=3328.msg66270#msg66270 date=1236831467There's a good reason for that. That's also James Marsters.author=Shadowtext link=topic=3328.msg66267#msg66267 date=1236830788author=ZPE link=topic=3328.msg66266#msg66266 date=1236830396You mean like this one?
I mean Piccolo looks like some kind of vampire
That actually kinda looks like him.
author=ChaosProductions link=topic=3328.msg66271#msg66271 date=1236831719Given the fact that I'm linking to a Buffy the Vampire Slayer picture, it still counts as Honorary Trope Overdosed, I think.author=Shadowtext link=topic=3328.msg66267#msg66267 date=1236830788I'm surprised it's not a Tropes link.
You mean like this one?
Dragonball: Fans of the anime will be apalled
author=ZPE link=topic=3328.msg66266#msg66266 date=1236830396You mean like this one?
I mean Piccolo looks like some kind of vampire
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