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TASK LENGTH (NOT PLAYTIME LENGTH)
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LouisCyphre
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CloseThere we go! Easy as changing some words around.
Infection: You said at one point: "In commercial games, I can bare with it. Like Resident Evil games, it's part of the thrill."
This interests me, and I might not have the perspective on that (having only played RE4) to catch the full meaning. Tell me more about this, if you would.
Sauce: ...has the right idea. There's a couple of eye-opening points here that answer questions sufficiently.
I'd like to stress that a player who saves, leaves, and comes back is still in the same task, so that has no effect on a task's length or tension. Tension has a way of returning to the level you left it at, after all!
Furthermore, I'd disagree that tension can't exist in a turn-based setting. It might be a cop-out to cite chess, but I'll do that: Look at high-level competitive turn-based games, or even TCGs, for the sort of tension you can employ.
Not that any RPG should be TOP TABLE GRAND PRIZE tense, but those clutch moments in a dungeon where you're rationing MP, or the point in a boss fight where you can't afford to waste a turn, should be appropriately tense. Having these points coincide with a pattern gives the player a rubric for "Well, if I don't see the exit in a couple more fights, I should port back to town and restock."
So, there's ways to communicate to the player via the lack of relief. If you throw the party in a dungeon and remove all of their gear, withholding heal points can be a powerful way to make the player feel the party's tension. Even if the enemies aren't too threatening in this dungeon, the player will feel threatened, because they've gone way past heal-point curfew!
That's the effect that interests me, at this point.
Infection: You said at one point: "In commercial games, I can bare with it. Like Resident Evil games, it's part of the thrill."
This interests me, and I might not have the perspective on that (having only played RE4) to catch the full meaning. Tell me more about this, if you would.
Sauce: ...has the right idea. There's a couple of eye-opening points here that answer questions sufficiently.
I'd like to stress that a player who saves, leaves, and comes back is still in the same task, so that has no effect on a task's length or tension. Tension has a way of returning to the level you left it at, after all!
Furthermore, I'd disagree that tension can't exist in a turn-based setting. It might be a cop-out to cite chess, but I'll do that: Look at high-level competitive turn-based games, or even TCGs, for the sort of tension you can employ.
Not that any RPG should be TOP TABLE GRAND PRIZE tense, but those clutch moments in a dungeon where you're rationing MP, or the point in a boss fight where you can't afford to waste a turn, should be appropriately tense. Having these points coincide with a pattern gives the player a rubric for "Well, if I don't see the exit in a couple more fights, I should port back to town and restock."
So, there's ways to communicate to the player via the lack of relief. If you throw the party in a dungeon and remove all of their gear, withholding heal points can be a powerful way to make the player feel the party's tension. Even if the enemies aren't too threatening in this dungeon, the player will feel threatened, because they've gone way past heal-point curfew!
That's the effect that interests me, at this point.
Hmm, when I said I can handle it in commercial games, I was probably just talking about RE itself, RE 1-3 of course. 4 and 5 are different in terms of the survival gameplay, it's more action/shooter.
But in the first three, ooh boy. Those were some fun, scary games when they came out. And one of the main things that was always on your mind was "save points" i.e typewriters, which you needed an Ink Ribbon to use. so even if you did find one, you would need the ink to use it.( it was usually supplied to you easily, though.)
So, finding those save point in 1-3 was really a big part of what would be a the end of a task length, they always seemed placed really right, very tense sometimes.
You would start the game, play through the beginning and then you'll usually come upon the first one. Gives you a chance to save, you now have the feeling of the game as well as accomplishing the intro(which are always exciting!)
It would be a good stopping point for a new player or old, if they wished.
Everyone after the first is where it gets fun or the "thrill"
Depending on the player's skills and the difficulty level is was pretty easy to get fucked up, and even halfway through the game on normal it's entirely possible for you to be on a last limb without much items.
So finally getting to my main point, it was scary as hell being chased by a monster, or having to avoid them, all the while wondering when you'll get to that next safe room, that typewriter. (for new players, when you don't know what's coming)
I think the games did a really decent job of task length, and time intervals of safety and outright terror.
I'm talking more about RE 2 and 3, here. 1 is original but ehh, it is what it is.
----
Silent Hill is very similar, but I haven't played all the originals, maybe just one or two of the new ones.
These games got tension, that's for sure. And I think in your head it's clear what is the end and beginning of a new task. Being puzzle based too, stuff would click and you'll find the red gemstone and it all perfectly works out for you, and unless the event triggers a boss battle or some kind of other same type situation, you have that option to save in between the horror that's going on around you.
Sorry about the length, a lot of it is long winded about RE, ahaha.
I probably said the same thing in different words, but the point is and Resident Evil is the best example to me for the discussion at hand, it's really well placed at times, with save points, resting spots, and the length of a task(it can be confusing for a new player, because of the puzzles and run around though.)
But in the first three, ooh boy. Those were some fun, scary games when they came out. And one of the main things that was always on your mind was "save points" i.e typewriters, which you needed an Ink Ribbon to use. so even if you did find one, you would need the ink to use it.( it was usually supplied to you easily, though.)
So, finding those save point in 1-3 was really a big part of what would be a the end of a task length, they always seemed placed really right, very tense sometimes.
You would start the game, play through the beginning and then you'll usually come upon the first one. Gives you a chance to save, you now have the feeling of the game as well as accomplishing the intro(which are always exciting!)
It would be a good stopping point for a new player or old, if they wished.
Everyone after the first is where it gets fun or the "thrill"
Depending on the player's skills and the difficulty level is was pretty easy to get fucked up, and even halfway through the game on normal it's entirely possible for you to be on a last limb without much items.
So finally getting to my main point, it was scary as hell being chased by a monster, or having to avoid them, all the while wondering when you'll get to that next safe room, that typewriter. (for new players, when you don't know what's coming)
I think the games did a really decent job of task length, and time intervals of safety and outright terror.
I'm talking more about RE 2 and 3, here. 1 is original but ehh, it is what it is.
----
Silent Hill is very similar, but I haven't played all the originals, maybe just one or two of the new ones.
These games got tension, that's for sure. And I think in your head it's clear what is the end and beginning of a new task. Being puzzle based too, stuff would click and you'll find the red gemstone and it all perfectly works out for you, and unless the event triggers a boss battle or some kind of other same type situation, you have that option to save in between the horror that's going on around you.
Sorry about the length, a lot of it is long winded about RE, ahaha.
I probably said the same thing in different words, but the point is and Resident Evil is the best example to me for the discussion at hand, it's really well placed at times, with save points, resting spots, and the length of a task(it can be confusing for a new player, because of the puzzles and run around though.)
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
RPGs by their nature involve spending more time than other genres customizing your characters and preparing for battles; this is definitely time when you are feeling way less tension than you would be feeling in a non-RPG. It's not necessarily about the style of combat, it's about what happens in between.
These preparation segments can serve as a kind of genre-specific spot to end a "task". In many types of RPGs, your most immediate task might not be to complete some quest or beat some boss or clear some area. Your task might be to gain some new power. You might be fighting until you reach the next level, or unlock the next skill, or get the 5 pristine demon ribcages you need to upgrade your spear.
However, personally I like it when these side-goals are performed simultaneous to the main goals. So at any given time, you'll be working your way towards getting a level up, learning a new skill, synthesizing your new weapon, earning fur points, trying to find the Hobgoblin King somewhere in this dungeon for a sidequest you picked up, and working your way towards the boss to progress the story, all at once. The completion of these different goals is ideally staggered, so that the player never goes too long without feeling like he/she accomplished something.
These preparation segments can serve as a kind of genre-specific spot to end a "task". In many types of RPGs, your most immediate task might not be to complete some quest or beat some boss or clear some area. Your task might be to gain some new power. You might be fighting until you reach the next level, or unlock the next skill, or get the 5 pristine demon ribcages you need to upgrade your spear.
However, personally I like it when these side-goals are performed simultaneous to the main goals. So at any given time, you'll be working your way towards getting a level up, learning a new skill, synthesizing your new weapon, earning fur points, trying to find the Hobgoblin King somewhere in this dungeon for a sidequest you picked up, and working your way towards the boss to progress the story, all at once. The completion of these different goals is ideally staggered, so that the player never goes too long without feeling like he/she accomplished something.
