THE DIRECTION OF RPG MAKER COMMUNITY

Golden eras doesn't exist, in any way.
Also, there's a difference between RM2k/3 and VXPAce eras.
RM2k/3 era: "Wow, how did <insertname> did this? Maybe a picture that -blablabla-".
RMVXPAce era: "Wow, nice script!"

I mean, the medium is now a little more obvious. There are less people inside the programming stuff than eventing (since eventing is a must for a regular RM user). So, there's not much more of a comment than "this is a script that (somehow) makes it".
In the inside, it's the same. An event has some programming elements. Calculating stuff and managing values, getting inputs, then using those values to give a response.

So, my point is, the difference between both eras is just the perspective. You can break a lot of boundaries on RM2k/3, and you can break almost all boundaries on VXPAce (and VX/Ace has limitations too! as an example, there is a hardcoded thing that makes it impossible to make the window greater than 640x480, dunno if calling the old method of "Win32Api" will work properly on them since I haven't tested it).

Still, none of those limitations will make an avid developer to cry!

author=King of Games

author=DE
when, you know, no one actually made games, just talked about making them, with only a handful of people producing anything of value.

Isn't this still going on?

God, I know I'm guilty of this. Though it's not like I'm not working on my games at all. I'm just... not working on them fast enough for them to come out before 2018. :< But I don't know that this is necessarily a problem. Talking about game design makes you better at it; I think it's perfectly normal to spend five hours in planning for every hour in development. If it is a problem, it's sure as hell not a new one. The same thing happened on Don Miguel's site.

As an anecdote, I can distinctly remember the threads on Don Miguel's site by RM95 designers, claiming that making the same games in RM2K was lame, because it added all the features for you and it didn't take any creativity or effort any more to make the games yourself, and so people had lost all their innovation. I wish the wayback machine had the forums archived...

author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK

author=Solitayre
Oh boy,another of these topics.

I wonder if people who say things like this even bother to look at what's on the front page right now.

I don't really think that I Miss The Sunrise, as neat as it is, being on the front page really defeats the crux of his argument, or really has anything to do with it really.

Well, the crux of his argument is, essentially, that people aren't making neat shit any more. So yeah, it really does defeat it.

author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK

author=Adon237
Uhh, it is a great game, that 'broke' the boundaries of the engine. I don't think you will be seeing another game like that in RM for a while.

I agree. But it's also one out of a billion, or whatever the real number I'm thinking of is, made by one user. And it's basically the only game on the front page that is worth playing and fits the criteria you stated. I mean, the last featured game was the penguin sliding puzzle thing.

Uh, the fact that it's rare is what MAKES it "boundary-breaking". If everyone were doing stuff like this, it wouldn't be innovative any more. It would just be the norm (and then he'd show up and start complaining that no one cared about quality any more, only about being edgey). He only named three or four RM2K games that he thought were truly innovative masterpieces anyway...

Not really. It does something interesting with its engine. That's what sets it apart. Most of the games made with the newer engines don't do this and feel like carbon copies of each other. If they all did something interesting and unique, they would all feel like different games.

Anyway, my response was directed at Solitayre, who implied that there was some kind of wealth of interesting games being displayed on RMN's front page at any given time. There aren't.

Also, You said earlier in this thread that it takes experience to figure out what kind of advice works and what doesn't. In a similar vein, inserting a snipe directed at someone's character or deliberately misinterpreting their intentions is a surefire way to instantly put someone in a position where they don't want to agree with you.

Adon, I don't think that Pengui was interesting in any way, it's fine if you do. I don't think there was any malicious intent with featuring it, I just don't think it's fun or interesting in any way and was a poor choice for that honor.

Pengui wasn't interesting at all to me, but I still appreciate the developers efforts. Plus most of the people who make games here are rather inexperienced at it(see: Adon), or just want to replicate or 'carbon copy' their favorite games. Not everyone appreciates them until they do something they think is new. Also, most everyone in this thread has been around 5+ years, and have probably seen 'everything'. Yeah of course after 2000 years of playing and making and talking about games you start to see repeats.

You already know that not every game will be a cream of the crop masterpiece, but sometimes people act like this could even possibly be the case. There will always be bad games, there will always be average games.

Most games made in 2004 were the same way; that's what made the few innovative ones so memorable. Your glasses are rose-tinted. The masterpieces were one in every few hundred, tops.

I wasn't intending to snipe at anyone except Instinct, I apologize if it seemed like I was being contrary against you also. As for Instinct I do admit I was being snippy. I don't think he started this discussion in good faith as a debate, though. I think he just started it because he was pissed off and couldn't hold it in any more and wanted everyone to feel bad.

You were younger, played more games, and didn't know what quality was. Yet.

I was at a lost words reading this topic, kind of a tired debate to be honest. I'm not a fan of the new generation per se, but that's mostly because a lot of the newer games overlook a lot of values that are important to me.

If you really want to see strides of changes I believe you should lead by example, show why the old generation is better. Write about them or do playthroughs of old games and maybe add commentary. Make a game project, it's really pointless to sideline talk without contributing. I mean, I kind of feel the same way but I never really felt like campaigning about it much. Topics of this nature will always yield black and white results, with a few sympathizers here and there in the gray area.

author=sbester
A game doesn't have to do something new or dynamic to be fun. I tend to ignore those ones anyway in favor of oldschool goodness.

This is the worst sorry, I thought you were going somewhere but then you ended horribly.

author=DE
You were younger, played more games, and didn't know what quality was. Yet.

I already stated that I started playing all these games at around the same time but thanks for making me out to be some kind of idiot with no sense of self-awareness I guess?

author=LouisCyphre
"Oh, Rudras. Sorry, I've already played Balmung."

Did you even play the game? Holy shit, Balmung had one of the best battle systems ever made in that engine.

It's a helluva lot more original then yours,
http://rpgmaker.net/media/content/games/1647/screenshots/big_ouch.PNG

Don't take potshots at superior products, thanks.

author=Ghost

author=LouisCyphre
"Oh, Rudras. Sorry, I've already played Balmung."

Did you even play the game? Holy shit, Balmung had one of the best battle systems ever made in that engine.

It's a helluva lot more original then yours,
http://rpgmaker.net/media/content/games/1647/screenshots/big_ouch.PNG

Don't take potshots at superior products, thanks.

I didn't like Balmung's battles. They were bland, repetitive and boring. The magic system was kind of neat but ultimately obtuse and rather pointless in the end. The limits were fun to do but they got disabled during any battle where they would have mattered.

I think Balmung is an excellent product, some of the best level design I've ever seen. But the battles were not a high point in my opinion.