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WHAT MUST MMORPGS DO TO REINVENT THEMSELVES?
Posts
UPRC
5516
UPRC
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CloseThere's a belief that has been going around for a little while now that the MMORPG genre, as a whole, is becoming pretty stagnant. The genre itself hasn't changed significantly in roughly ten years now, and each game that claims to be ground breaking or innovative instead only adds a few little things to make life for the player easier as they grind quests and such.
Guild Wars 2 is perhaps the MMO that has come the closest to reinventing anything about the genre, but all it did mostly did was give the players more freedom to level up their characters since Guild Wars 2 awards players with experience for doing pretty much everything imaginable.
I feel like Guild Wars 2 is probably the best MMO out there right now, but I won't discount the benefits of WoW even though I don't play it anymore (you can't ignore its strengths). Even still, Guild Wars 2 doesn't do anything significantly different from the competition. Story cutscenes are perhaps the most unique thing about Guild Wars 2, but even that is starting to become the norm after games like The Old Republic did it as well.
I feel like there are two major problems facing the genre that is holding it back from evolving further.
1. Most MMOs are trying to leech off of the success of WoW. They're not being overly original (ahem, Rift!) and are simply copying off of the formula that works, but are still providing a few tweaks... just not enough to make the product unique.
2. Nobody really knows what to do. Some developers (ArenaNet and Trion) know that actively involving the player in the game world via dynamic events and such is a step in the right direction but, beyond that, there hasn't been much innovation. It just seems like nobody knows what to do.
Should developers step outside of their comfort zones and apply some VERY risky design choices to their MMORPGs? It seems like, at the current moment, the MMOs that are put on a pedestal are merely the ones that do things differently rather than being unique and adding interesting new gameplay elements.
TERA was lauded as the next big thing simply because the combat was more akin to an action game than a standard MMORPG, but the rest of the game seemed to be painfully generic and repetitive from what I've heard.
The Old Republic was supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread, but instead it ended up being WoW in the Star Wars universe. It has some pretty interesting stories but, as far as gameplay was concerned, it did nothing that we already haven't seen. The only reason to play it is if you happen to be a big Star Wars fan.
Now we have Guild Wars 2, another MMO that was hyped to ridiculous levels. I feel that Guild Wars 2 has succeeded in standing out a bit, but does it offer anything truly unique? It certainly has the best dynamic events out of every MMO I've played, and the ability to fast travel all over the world instantly is very nice, but I strive to find anything really unique about it. Guild Wars 2 simply perfects MMO elements that have been around for years now rather than pushing the envelope. It's fortunate that Guild Wars 2 has a beautiful world, and that it is free to play like the first game, otherwise I'm afraid that people would already write it off.
So what do MMORPGs need to do in order to be really engaging and unique again? As it stands now, they all feel as if they're coming off the same conveyer belt, don't they? A few MMORPGS have had good ideas over the years such as the customization in City of Heroes and Champions Online, or the fiercely open-ended character progression system present in The Secret World, but nobody is really throwing any genius ideas out there anymore. Unless developers actually strive to evolve the genre, it's going to remain as a solar system-type arrangement (WoW as the sun, other MMOs as planets revolving around it).
If you guys were in charge of the development of a new MMO, what would you do to set it apart? What needs to happen to this genre to prevent it from stagnating further?
Guild Wars 2 is perhaps the MMO that has come the closest to reinventing anything about the genre, but all it did mostly did was give the players more freedom to level up their characters since Guild Wars 2 awards players with experience for doing pretty much everything imaginable.
I feel like Guild Wars 2 is probably the best MMO out there right now, but I won't discount the benefits of WoW even though I don't play it anymore (you can't ignore its strengths). Even still, Guild Wars 2 doesn't do anything significantly different from the competition. Story cutscenes are perhaps the most unique thing about Guild Wars 2, but even that is starting to become the norm after games like The Old Republic did it as well.
I feel like there are two major problems facing the genre that is holding it back from evolving further.
1. Most MMOs are trying to leech off of the success of WoW. They're not being overly original (ahem, Rift!) and are simply copying off of the formula that works, but are still providing a few tweaks... just not enough to make the product unique.
2. Nobody really knows what to do. Some developers (ArenaNet and Trion) know that actively involving the player in the game world via dynamic events and such is a step in the right direction but, beyond that, there hasn't been much innovation. It just seems like nobody knows what to do.
Should developers step outside of their comfort zones and apply some VERY risky design choices to their MMORPGs? It seems like, at the current moment, the MMOs that are put on a pedestal are merely the ones that do things differently rather than being unique and adding interesting new gameplay elements.
TERA was lauded as the next big thing simply because the combat was more akin to an action game than a standard MMORPG, but the rest of the game seemed to be painfully generic and repetitive from what I've heard.
The Old Republic was supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread, but instead it ended up being WoW in the Star Wars universe. It has some pretty interesting stories but, as far as gameplay was concerned, it did nothing that we already haven't seen. The only reason to play it is if you happen to be a big Star Wars fan.
Now we have Guild Wars 2, another MMO that was hyped to ridiculous levels. I feel that Guild Wars 2 has succeeded in standing out a bit, but does it offer anything truly unique? It certainly has the best dynamic events out of every MMO I've played, and the ability to fast travel all over the world instantly is very nice, but I strive to find anything really unique about it. Guild Wars 2 simply perfects MMO elements that have been around for years now rather than pushing the envelope. It's fortunate that Guild Wars 2 has a beautiful world, and that it is free to play like the first game, otherwise I'm afraid that people would already write it off.
So what do MMORPGs need to do in order to be really engaging and unique again? As it stands now, they all feel as if they're coming off the same conveyer belt, don't they? A few MMORPGS have had good ideas over the years such as the customization in City of Heroes and Champions Online, or the fiercely open-ended character progression system present in The Secret World, but nobody is really throwing any genius ideas out there anymore. Unless developers actually strive to evolve the genre, it's going to remain as a solar system-type arrangement (WoW as the sun, other MMOs as planets revolving around it).
If you guys were in charge of the development of a new MMO, what would you do to set it apart? What needs to happen to this genre to prevent it from stagnating further?
They are already doing that. I mean, there's LoL that's kicking ass and taking names, there was the experiment with the Diablo 3 MMO (an instanced MMO with an action RPG combat system), and then you seemed to have forgotten about some of the more general MMOs like Second Life, not to mention all of the casual multiplayer games like FarmVille, where user interactions are achieved on a broader social site.
EDIT:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-11-08-content-is-king-the-growing-pains-of-free-to-play
I read this article yesterday and it was an interesting read. It is dealing specifically with F2P models, and how that is becoming the new pigeon-holed bandwagon for game development by major devs. Which is too bad, but really hints at the root issue: devs/publishers are so focused on being successful commercially that they try to figure out what worked in the past or for others and replicate it.
EDIT:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-11-08-content-is-king-the-growing-pains-of-free-to-play
I read this article yesterday and it was an interesting read. It is dealing specifically with F2P models, and how that is becoming the new pigeon-holed bandwagon for game development by major devs. Which is too bad, but really hints at the root issue: devs/publishers are so focused on being successful commercially that they try to figure out what worked in the past or for others and replicate it.
TheGowans
30
I would kill people for a virtual reality mmo, but that's unrealistic for the next few years at least. That said, I'm kinda stuck when thinking about innovation in terms of what to do, but I do reckon we need to do away with quest-grinding, and even that damn hot bar. No clue what to replace them with off the top of my head though.
TheNecromancer
3160
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_Art_Online - this looks like a killer idea for a game, even if it was only through tv screens. the second season introduces another game with an even better idea.
I think that if the battle system and skill system is fun, any MMO can be good with the standard formula. PSO/PSU will always be my favorite MMO, although it's pure action RPG. ffxi was a lot of fun. it wasn't perfect, but partying with different jobs was fun enough to keep me playing for years. and now ffxiv is being redone to copy the ffxi formula. I can't wait for that.
I think that if the battle system and skill system is fun, any MMO can be good with the standard formula. PSO/PSU will always be my favorite MMO, although it's pure action RPG. ffxi was a lot of fun. it wasn't perfect, but partying with different jobs was fun enough to keep me playing for years. and now ffxiv is being redone to copy the ffxi formula. I can't wait for that.
TheGowans
30
Yeah SAO is where I got my desire for VR from, it's all I've been able to think about the last 4-5 days xD
I don't fully agree that any MMO can be fun with the standard formula, as even with the same formula it can be done really well or really poorly (I personally loved Rift but hated how SWTOR ended up), that and I'm getting kinda sick of the same thing over and over again.
I don't fully agree that any MMO can be fun with the standard formula, as even with the same formula it can be done really well or really poorly (I personally loved Rift but hated how SWTOR ended up), that and I'm getting kinda sick of the same thing over and over again.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
"The MMORPG genre hasn't changed in ten years" is a pretty dumb statement since World of Warcraft is only 8 years old, and I think the free to play model was invented since then - or at least brought to professional games outside of Korea since then.
The fact that games which are similar to each-other continue to be released is neither a surprise nor a problem - this is a concept known as "genre." You want the MMORPG genre to end and be replaced by something else? Lame. They can keep making this type of game if they want. Making new kinds of games is good, but making old kinds of games doesn't have to stop. It's not even that old of a genre. You don't want to reinvent something older and more samey instead, like puzzle games or racing games or sports games or shooters?
I dunno just playing the devil's advocate here because I think MMOs are pretty fun and I dislike change
The fact that games which are similar to each-other continue to be released is neither a surprise nor a problem - this is a concept known as "genre." You want the MMORPG genre to end and be replaced by something else? Lame. They can keep making this type of game if they want. Making new kinds of games is good, but making old kinds of games doesn't have to stop. It's not even that old of a genre. You don't want to reinvent something older and more samey instead, like puzzle games or racing games or sports games or shooters?
I dunno just playing the devil's advocate here because I think MMOs are pretty fun and I dislike change
TheGowans
30
I agree with most of what you said apart from the 'wanting a new genre', which I can understand with most other genres such as an fps, theres not too much that can be changed up without it not being an fps anymore whilst an MMORPG is such a broad genre the only key elements you need are lots of people online, and an rpg so a lot of things could be changed in terms of how you go about killing stuff, questing etc, but with an fps there aren't too many ways of walking around in first person shooting people.
Maybe I'm being stupid though so meh, I too enjoy the current form of mmos, but a massivly new concept for one would be nice to see
Maybe I'm being stupid though so meh, I too enjoy the current form of mmos, but a massivly new concept for one would be nice to see
MMORPG Theory: Replace repetitive grinding with roguelike elements. Randomly generate events, enemies, items, quests. Randomize skills and world events. Tie the random number generator to elements like time-of-day, time-of-year, past in-game events, etc. In the end it still boils down to re-using content but it might breathe some fresh life into the genre. Every day becomes a new, random and unpredictable adventure with your friends!
Someone with a few million dollars go do that!
Someone with a few million dollars go do that!
gamesindustry
League of Legends is a perfect example of this: the payment structure allows its players to carve a unique path from hundreds of potential alternatives; to try it all would be prohibitively expensive, so players specialise, attain mastery and form groups more organically than they would with a single $60 serving. League of Legends is a great game, but without micro-transactions it would be a different and inferior experience.
Indeed.
It is extremely F2P, and you cannot purchase power. It's not pay-to-win, it's pay-for-vanity. You could be the best player in the world without having spent a cent and still have an engaging, rewarding and memorable experience on the same power level as everybody else.
Needless to say, Karsuman, Natook, ChaosProductions/LouisCyphre and I have spent a net sum of $300+ on the game. Probably more.
EDIT: What I'm trying to say is that MMORPGS are stupid. GW2 and WoW would be better single-player RPGs, and LoL is the model that any MMOs should go for in the future. You'll get a larger userbase (ideally) and if the product is good, PEOPLE WILL FUCKING THROW MONEY AT YOU. It helps that Riot offers bundles, always has at least six items on sale, and gives you bonus RP (the cash-to-points currency) if you buy RP directly through the game client... but you can also get useful cards at the grocery store or Wal*Mart or wherever, so they can get kids in on the action too. (Go away, children. We don't need more Teemos.)
EDIT2: OH RIGHT HONOR
LoL is also quite interested in lowering player toxicity, and keeps introducing new psychologist-developed programs and features to help improve interplayer relations. I seriously, just, like. I can't NOT gush about this game, it's so great.
TheGowans
30
author=slashphoenix
MMORPG Theory:Replace repetitive grinding with roguelike elements. Randomly generate events, enemies, items, quests. Randomize skills and world events. Tie the random number generator to elements like time-of-day, time-of-year, past in-game events, etc. In the end it still boils down to re-using content but it might breathe some fresh life into the genre. Every day becomes a new, random and unpredictable adventure with your friends!
Someone with a few million dollars go do that!
Going a step further, have the events of the previous days effect future events, such as, if you rebuild a farmers farm one day, he might offer courier work, or for you to defend from bandits or such
realistic worlds are a stupid novelty that will never be truly successful or immersive. go try WURM if you want to see this truth
(fun fact: games should know that they are games, a virtual reality. trying to emulate physical reality is a waste of time)
(fun fact: games should know that they are games, a virtual reality. trying to emulate physical reality is a waste of time)
TheGowans
30
Don't ruin my dreams D=
But I agree it's not feasible and 99/100 times is just going to end up being pretty shite.
Edit: Downloading WURM but not gonna get my hopes up, also my farmer thing wasn't so much for realism and more to make it feel like you are actually doing something and gain more rewards for questing other than xp and a usually shit item, (even if once a week he manages to blow his farm back up again)
But I agree it's not feasible and 99/100 times is just going to end up being pretty shite.
Edit: Downloading WURM but not gonna get my hopes up, also my farmer thing wasn't so much for realism and more to make it feel like you are actually doing something and gain more rewards for questing other than xp and a usually shit item, (even if once a week he manages to blow his farm back up again)
I'd love to see an MMO that was themed something besides "fantasy" or "sci-fi". I think we've got those covered at this point. Cartoon Network had that free MMO set in their universe which is kinda neato, but everyone else just wants MORE ORCS.
Realistic games have their place, but they are not the end-all be-all, magnum opus of games that AAA companies and publishers want them to be.
Realistic games have their place, but they are not the end-all be-all, magnum opus of games that AAA companies and publishers want them to be.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Well I'd say the current incarnation of MMORPGs is basically a genre, the way JRPGs and WRPGs are genres. At least to the extent that "genre" just means "a set of characteristics that a bunch of games have in common, which allow people to categorize them as the same type of game." I guess you could call it a sub-genre, but a sub-genre is just a genre that doesn't have enough games in it (yet?) to be a genre.
And like a lot of genres, the real definition of the MMORPG genre is much more well-defined and specific than the name suggests. First person shooters, if you take the genre to mean just what the name implies and nothing more, don't specifically require that there be enemies shooting back. You could have a game where you fly around in a UFO and shoot buildings - it would technically be a first-person shooter, but it would not be a first-person shooter, if you know what I mean. Similarly, turns-per-day web games like Kingdom of Loathing are technically online rpgs with a massive number of players, but they're a totally different type of game.
Back to the original topic, I think people will stop making World of Warcraft clones once they realize that they need a few billion dollars to get to where WoW is right now, and thus cannot possibly compete. They haven't figured that out yet, though.
And like a lot of genres, the real definition of the MMORPG genre is much more well-defined and specific than the name suggests. First person shooters, if you take the genre to mean just what the name implies and nothing more, don't specifically require that there be enemies shooting back. You could have a game where you fly around in a UFO and shoot buildings - it would technically be a first-person shooter, but it would not be a first-person shooter, if you know what I mean. Similarly, turns-per-day web games like Kingdom of Loathing are technically online rpgs with a massive number of players, but they're a totally different type of game.
Back to the original topic, I think people will stop making World of Warcraft clones once they realize that they need a few billion dollars to get to where WoW is right now, and thus cannot possibly compete. They haven't figured that out yet, though.
TheGowans
30
Ah well said, didn't think of sub-genres, guess I need to wake up some more and stop being so sleepy before saying things xD
TheNecromancer
3160
author=Craze
realistic worlds are a stupid novelty that will never be truly successful or immersive. go try WURM if you want to see this truth
(fun fact: games should know that they are games, a virtual reality. trying to emulate physical reality is a waste of time)
it never ceases to amaze me how you state your opinions as if they are fact :D
Genres are labels, and using labels too much means relying on accepted tropes and previous mistakes. Not that they don't have their place, but game genres are becoming less and less reliable - some of the best games I've played recently would require several genres to describe.
Anyway, my point is we gotta deconstruct what an MMORPG is really about. Here are some quick thoughts, feel free to add/call me on my shit:
1) Creating a dynamic world: The best part about multiplayer is the built-in unpredictability. You never know who you'll run into where. Are they friendly or hostile? Are they in trouble? Can you team up with them?
2) Building your character: Watching your in-game self grow or change is part of the magic of a persistent long-haul game. You can see the difference in power, skill or appearance between when you started and where you are currently. In addition, the multiplayer aspect lends towards peoples' innate desires to personalize, customize and stand out, like a peacock. It's the reason people like costumes in LoL, hats in TF2, transmogrifying in WoW, and armor dyes in GW2.
These are the two biggest draws of an MMO that I can think of, but I'm sure there's a lot I haven't considered.
these thoughts are my own and are not owned by my employer or parent companies and likely don't represent actual fact, but that should be a given because this is the internet, after all
Anyway, my point is we gotta deconstruct what an MMORPG is really about. Here are some quick thoughts, feel free to add/call me on my shit:
1) Creating a dynamic world: The best part about multiplayer is the built-in unpredictability. You never know who you'll run into where. Are they friendly or hostile? Are they in trouble? Can you team up with them?
2) Building your character: Watching your in-game self grow or change is part of the magic of a persistent long-haul game. You can see the difference in power, skill or appearance between when you started and where you are currently. In addition, the multiplayer aspect lends towards peoples' innate desires to personalize, customize and stand out, like a peacock. It's the reason people like costumes in LoL, hats in TF2, transmogrifying in WoW, and armor dyes in GW2.
These are the two biggest draws of an MMO that I can think of, but I'm sure there's a lot I haven't considered.
these thoughts are my own and are not owned by my employer or parent companies and likely don't represent actual fact, but that should be a given because this is the internet, after all
