NEW POLICIES FOR 2014: A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

author=Yellow Magic

author=Feldschlacht IV
Like I said, automatically denigrating people who use offensive words into a little 'horrible box' is ignorant ivory tower perching at best and does nothing to actually contemplate the idea that 1. Human behavior and mindsets exists in a gray area 2. People are more than the sum of the words they use.

I never said I wasn't a horrible person.

But for the record: We shouldn't be okay with gendered insults just because they're commonplace. Like, we're never gonna advance as a species if we just keep saying, "Well that's just how it is yo", or "it ain't black and white", etc. etc.

I'm all in favour of developing a thick skin, but if there's something that obviously shouldn't be the norm, there's no reason to sit back and accept it.

Unless you're involved in the slave trade, a murderer, a drug lord, or something like that, I wouldn't call you (and I would advise anyone not to call themselves) a 'horrible person'. What makes someone 'horrible' is a pretty narrow slice of things that are actually truly horrible, and not just symptoms of the human condition; i.e., not being perfect.

But yes, I agree with you otherwise.

author=Feldschlacht IV
I'm simply addressing (halfway for the sake of devil's advocate and halfway because I really think its worth addressing) that it's pretty easy to devolve this mindset into 'horrible people who use horrible words/"enlightened people such as myself hmmph" that don't'.

Is this really the appropriate situation to play the devil's advocate game?

And hell yeah if you're in a discussion about banning a constant derailer who was seriously using terms like "lying slut whore" and why certain forms of language aren't really a great idea in mixed company, and you're going, "Yeah, but not ALL people who use these words are bad, maybe there are also some bad people on the 'don't use horrible words' side MAYBE THE TRUTH IS IN THE MIDDLE," you're kind of gonna look like you're defending the use of the words, because many people who defend the use of those words use the exact arguments you're making.

Jesus that was a sentence. Sorry guys I'm too lazy to formulate it so it doesn't run on like the Energizer bunny.

Like, yeah, there is room for discussion on this issue, but there is a time and a place for it, and this is not really the appropriate time and place. If this WERE a situation where people were getting banned for saying "whore" once, that would be an appropriate setting for that discussion.

Every situation is worth examining, sure, but I'm pretty sure Max's ban has been discussed to death. I don't see anyone here arguing for total censorship, just a basic sense of social respect and understanding.

It's true that we should examine things from both sides, but if you only play the devil's advocate, you're inevitably going to look like one.

Nope, we're talking about whether or not we should try to understand people who say rude or offensive things, or just treat them as totally incomprehensible and inhuman. That said, I haven't seen anyone actually arguing for the latter.

It's important to understand why people might say certain things you think are shitty - maybe they actively want to insult you, or maybe they have no idea, or maybe they were never raised otherwise, or maybe they come from a different culture. However, just because you understand it doesn't mean you have to put up with it. If you have the time and energy, you could politely correct them and ask them not to say those things around you, or maybe you decide it doesn't bug you if they explain why. If you don't have that energy - and a lot of times you won't - you can ignore that person or just shut them out of your life. Some people won't change no matter what you do, so there's no reason to keep them close if they cause you stress.

This argument has been going in circles for a page and a half, btw.

Let's all just remove gender-specific insults from our vocab when posting and instead use non-geder specific terms.

So instead of words like:
"cunt, whore, dick, prick"

We use:
"asshole, asswipe, bastard and so forth"

Or maybe better yet, perhaps we can just try to avoid insults all together. Mayhap we'll have some meaningful conversations that way and may actually learn something about each other.

I've always liked fuck. Nice and simple. Very useful in many different ways. Also, a very versatile word.

Fuck-knuckle, fucker, fuckwit (I like that one a lot), fuckedinthehead, fuck-sucker, fuckle buckle (don't ask. I blame a younger sibling. I don't even), fuck truck, fuck for brains, fuck-chuck... the list goes on. It really is a great word.
:sighs dramatically:

Fuck is a great word... I probably say it too much IRL >_>

I think this sums up how I feel about a lot of this topic pretty well, although I am on board for avoiding purposefully hurtful comments.

http://www.reddit.com/r/confession/comments/2b7rov/im_a_lifelong_feminist_who_is_completely

author=Lifelong
I've been a feminist for decades. Before reddit, before tumblr, before Facebook, before the internet was in widespread use even. I have always held the view that all people, regardless of gender, race, or sexual orientation should be treated equally and with respect. Now though, I am completely disgusted with and ashamed of feminism and the modern social justice movement as a whole.

What used to be an extreme section of the equal rights movements that nobody took seriously, now proclaimed themselves the leaders and claim to speak for me. There is no room left for discussion. Either you're with them in the belief that every minority is a victim of widespread oppression or you're against them. If we disagree it's only because we don't have the intellectual capacity to understand how we're being oppressed.

We used to fight against labels. Our labels were unimportant because we were all human. Now social justice types ravenously search for labels. If they don't have any, they create them. It seems every day there are a dozen new genders created so that these people who obviously haven't had to struggle a day in their lives can feel special. They seem to forget that gender isn't something you can change at a whim.

With rare exceptions, you're born either male or female. Transgenders used to want to be recognized as their preferred gender, male or female (and many still do), now we have genderqueer, flapjackgender, astrogender, and so on. If you point out how ridiculous they're being and frankly how offensive they're being to transgenders, you're oppressing them.

People proclaim themselves cats, unicorns, remote controls (admittedly this seems to be a small group so far). You can't point out that they are in fact human or you're an oppressor. "Who are you to tell me what I am?!" I'm someone with a brain.

Then there's mental illness. People are self diagnosing themselves with everything from ADD and OCD to skitzophrenia and DID. Anything to show the world how "special" they are and how they've been victimized. If you point out they're wrong, you're oppressing them and victimizing those with mental illnesses. They don't realize themselves how offensive they're being to people with real mental illnesses.

Here on reddit you have subs like SRS that spend their whole lives being offended and feeling victimized. There's no discussion. Either agree that anyone who isn't a white male is a lifelong victim, or get out.

You have websites like buzzfeed and gawker that post articles encouraging this victim mentality. Women are victims of an oppressive society. LGBT people are victims, racial minorities are victims. It doesn't matter whether we see ourselves as victims or not, that's what we are and we better like it otherwise we're oppressors ourselves.

Anyone who states a opinion, no matter how respectfully, that goes against social justice is subject to widespread witch hunts. Say someone is against gay marriage. There is no discussion, no "why do you feel that way," no attempt to change their mind. It's screaming matches and vilification. How is this helping any cause?

There's no room left for humor. Someone like Joan Rivers, who makes off color jokes for a living and who herself has advanced feminist causes way more than anyone sitting behind a computer screen monitoring people's speech, is vilified for the JOKES that she makes.

You have campaigns like yesallwomen which used a mass murder where more men were killed than women to turn it into a feminist issue. If you disagree or point out how horribly offensive it is to the victims and their families, you're an oppressor.

When we run out of things to be offended by, we create terms like "microaggressions" to widen the scope. God forbid we should make it through a day without finding some way to be victimized.

Things like "trigger warnings" give the impression that it's the worlds responsibility to never upset you. Personal responsibility for your own feelings and how you handle them is unimportant. It's somehow healthier to think that the entire population will use their psychic abilities to know what "triggers" you, and monitor it's speech just so you won't get upset.

The examples in my rant are a few examples that I can think of. It used to only be little pockets of social justice movements who held these views but it's spread like wildfire. I no longer feel welcome or comfortable in a group that I've been a member of for years, nor do I recognize it.

We used to fight for equal rights for all, now we fight for special rights for some. We used to find our own strength and refuse to see ourselves as victims, now we encourage weakness and victim mentality. We used to fight labels, now we glorify them. We used to encourage personal responsibility, now we expect the world to change itself for every individual.

I can't help but think we're encouraging an entire generation to be completely helpless and shun any form of critical thinking in favor of allowing our lives and thought process to be ruled by irrational emotions.

Fair enough, yeah, we're starting to veer off subject a lot! That was mainly to clearly state (for those interested) the nearest analogue on how I feel about the subject.

Sorry for blowing it off course!

author=Sailerius
Liberty: Rated M for Mature

Stealthy edit but we know what you wrote.........................