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CloseI have always had a full time job even since starting my commercial gam mak. But that's not necessary for everyone by any means. Other than just a steady paycheck, my full time job is one of my primary connections to the outside world. Otherwise I would be a starving artist shut-in type just doing gam mak all the time.
Granted, my full time job isn't something like a Doctor or a General Manager or something else with long, grueling hours. I have a comfy 40 hour per week office job and have passed by numerous promotion/management opportunities which would have destroyed my ability to do gam mak due to the increased responsibility (can't be creative when you worked a 12 hour day and are exhausted)
But then again, if I hadn't had one hit game with Skyborn, I think it would be a much, much harder sell to my wife sacrificing so much for the sake of gam mak. I feel very fortunate that I have the ability to keep both a "real" life going with a robust energy and free time left over to gam mak.
Granted, my full time job isn't something like a Doctor or a General Manager or something else with long, grueling hours. I have a comfy 40 hour per week office job and have passed by numerous promotion/management opportunities which would have destroyed my ability to do gam mak due to the increased responsibility (can't be creative when you worked a 12 hour day and are exhausted)
But then again, if I hadn't had one hit game with Skyborn, I think it would be a much, much harder sell to my wife sacrificing so much for the sake of gam mak. I feel very fortunate that I have the ability to keep both a "real" life going with a robust energy and free time left over to gam mak.
Erave
1444
Not sure how I could foresee myself doing game dev full time, now that I'm married, own a house and have a standard of living I have come to expect. I think if was 10 years younger I would have been more willing to try and do this full time. But if you're really wanting to do it, you'll need to deliver high quality games that can build a brand. Also looking for a unique way to penetrate the market and find a niche, this can be tough because sometimes the games we want to make can be a bit of an homage (at least most of the games I've made in the last 10 years).
Also, keeping overhead low is important. We spent around $30k on Shadows of Adam, and if it hadn't been for kickstarter we would be in trouble. Luckily from sales and KS fundraising we've easily broken even and then some.
Good luck!
Also, keeping overhead low is important. We spent around $30k on Shadows of Adam, and if it hadn't been for kickstarter we would be in trouble. Luckily from sales and KS fundraising we've easily broken even and then some.
Good luck!
author=psy_wombats
Do you like making games? Not the design big-picture parts but like the actual day to day grind of coding, or cranking out art, or designing UI for hours etc. If so: great. There's someone out there willing to pay you to do it professionally if you're good enough. You'll get paid and probably get health insurance and whatever, but you'll have pretty much zero creative control.
Yeah, the zero creative control part is pretty important and what has put me off of game development as a career.
As a full-time software engineer I can safely say that even writing software is nowhere near as fun if you have to write it for someone else's end goal. I'd hate to work overtime and underpaid on make games that didn't match my vision.
+1 for stable career while you mak gam on the side, although I know that's nowhere near as simple as it sounds, depending on how many other priorities you have in life. If you get big on those side games, though, you might as well go all the way.
By the way, what's the gamedev scene like in Bangladesh? I'm from Pakistan and when I lived there, I was the only one I knew who had any sort of interest in making games.
Lots of people just woke up one day and felt like making games. Now there is a few companies making half assed games and dying out. We can all imagine what someone's first games are like, not to mention everyone overhere only uses unity.
Hence I am not taking Bangladesh game companies into my calculations as one has yet to make anything their but their first mistakes.
How ling ago did you live here? I had had interest since before 2013
Hence I am not taking Bangladesh game companies into my calculations as one has yet to make anything their but their first mistakes.
How ling ago did you live here? I had had interest since before 2013
That's really interesting. I think companies making half-assed games -> dying out is a fairly common pattern though, even here in the UK. Same with usage of Unity: quite a few hiring Unity developers right now.
I was in Pakistan from 2003 to 2006, so admittedly things might have changed there since...haven't had a proper look tho.
I was in Pakistan from 2003 to 2006, so admittedly things might have changed there since...haven't had a proper look tho.
Mister Big T is now known as Toumo_L and he's moved on from his past garbage and is now set on making nice commercial garbage.
I didn't become a professional game developer.
However, my desire to learn how to program games is what lead me to professionally creating medical software. True story: I used to not know how to program. I evented all kinds of stuff in RPG Maker 95.
Sure, I'm programming a game now and plan to sell it. But it's been a roundabout process.
However, my desire to learn how to program games is what lead me to professionally creating medical software. True story: I used to not know how to program. I evented all kinds of stuff in RPG Maker 95.
Sure, I'm programming a game now and plan to sell it. But it's been a roundabout process.
That is what exactly the feeling I have about the whole thing. It needs to be a round about process as no matter how hard I may try, failure is the norm. Still leaves me with a lot of questions though. What to do after my undergraduate, with only 1 year left.
Take time off from normal life and work on the best game I am rver made?
Go abroad for a masters, or a job, so I have much better access and opportunities yo work on games professionally?
If I do my masters what should I do it on?
Should I do a mastets at all?
Should I work here for a few years so that I can get enough job experience under my belt before I try going abroad?
Etc.
I guess everyone has these questions at this point :v
Trying to figure out how to get closer to becoming a professional developer without risking going homeless first :3
Glad I got a year to figure things out
Take time off from normal life and work on the best game I am rver made?
Go abroad for a masters, or a job, so I have much better access and opportunities yo work on games professionally?
If I do my masters what should I do it on?
Should I do a mastets at all?
Should I work here for a few years so that I can get enough job experience under my belt before I try going abroad?
Etc.
I guess everyone has these questions at this point :v
Trying to figure out how to get closer to becoming a professional developer without risking going homeless first :3
Glad I got a year to figure things out
If you're looking to make money, the one getting played is you. Personally, I don't use any of the paid versions (not that I'm wanting to get it for free, so much as I have a tendency to travel from home to work, and I try to use the paid version, my flash drive works properly on the PC I loaded it on, but there is no real way to have a "portable license" so it's rebuy the game and have it work on one new PC, only to have the PC crap out... I'm sorry but I'm not paying $59 several times over when all I really wanted was for steam to function like a cloud and NOT store crap on a computer. Since I dunno how to do that... probably not). Indie games are for indie audiences. The point is to have fun, and probably do it as cheaply as possible.
Making a living out of video games would simply mean I get to spend a lot more time making better and better games. I don't need to have the money for every unit of the game, nor do I want to make a fortune. I just want to make a comfortable living out of it so that I do not need to do something else, something I do not want to do, just for the paycheck at the end of the month.
As long as I get the money I need I would be glad to give away the game.
I also have no predisposition to only make "indie" games. Although its a good thing to start with, more creative control, smaller games, smaller funds required, smaller financial risks, takes less time, good to work my way up from there, the opportunity to makes niche games for niche audiences and not have to compete with studios having a few 100 employees, forced to work closely with different disciplines which would make me a better designer etc. At least that is how I feel about it.
And I also disagree with the last statement. "Indie games are for indie audiences. The point is to have fun, and probably do it as cheaply as possible. "
Indie games are starting to slowly but surely creep into non "indie" audiences, as I notice with many of my friends from different walks of life. Even if not, if the audience makes enough money for me I would be fine with it. Most of the people in the AAA industry must also be there for the "fun" or else their are better paid opportunities for most of them elsewhere. The point for anything and everything in life is to do it as cheaply as possible (yes, I realize some people like to spend money just to flaunt or because of the social class they belong to).
As long as I get the money I need I would be glad to give away the game.
I also have no predisposition to only make "indie" games. Although its a good thing to start with, more creative control, smaller games, smaller funds required, smaller financial risks, takes less time, good to work my way up from there, the opportunity to makes niche games for niche audiences and not have to compete with studios having a few 100 employees, forced to work closely with different disciplines which would make me a better designer etc. At least that is how I feel about it.
And I also disagree with the last statement. "Indie games are for indie audiences. The point is to have fun, and probably do it as cheaply as possible. "
Indie games are starting to slowly but surely creep into non "indie" audiences, as I notice with many of my friends from different walks of life. Even if not, if the audience makes enough money for me I would be fine with it. Most of the people in the AAA industry must also be there for the "fun" or else their are better paid opportunities for most of them elsewhere. The point for anything and everything in life is to do it as cheaply as possible (yes, I realize some people like to spend money just to flaunt or because of the social class they belong to).
Dyhalto
7536
author=SaitenHazard
Making a living out of video games would simply mean I get to spend a lot more time making better and better games. I don't need to have the money for every unit of the game, nor do I want to make a fortune. I just want to make a comfortable living out of it so that I do not need to do something else, something I do not want to do, just for the paycheck at the end of the month.
See, this is the wrong way to look at things. The walk of life is a lot more diverse and full of opportunity than the infantile binary decision of following your dreams vs being a 9-5 rat racer. This choice is way too prevalent in media today, where a self-pitying salaryman protagonist regrets not trying to be a Writer/Rock Star/etc, and it pollutes the expectations young people have as they transition from school to work.
I'm going to give you two case studies.
#1
A lady friend of mine works for an IT company doing mostly web-based stuff. She makes ~$60,000/year, works five days a week, and is exhausted after each workday. All of her energy is drained after eight-to-nine hours, and even one of her two days off is partially spent being a zombie. She has three weeks' vacation, and she burns through it like a house on fire just to get some "me" time. Adding insult to injury, some of her coworkers are shit to be around.
But as much as she hates her job and would like to move on, she feels like she can't. Her company is the highest paying gig in town, meaning she would have to hire on in a different city and leave friends/family behind. She has some hobbies and other interests, but they're falling to the wayside because she has trouble mustering the time and creative energy for them.
#2
A guy I know works for a lumber mill as Weekend Maintenance. He makes slightly over $100,000/year and only works three days a week. He gets three weeks' vacation every year like she does, but doesn't need to take them unless he wants to travel abroad because four days off every single week is plenty of "me" time. As a bonus perk, everyone he works with is a good guy/gal and the environment as a whole is low-gear and fun. The only complaint he has is that sometimes the planners don't leave him enough work for the weekend, so he'll occasionally sit around being bored. FailArmy can only provide so much entertainment.
And obviously, with four days off and lots of cashflow, he has no trouble pursuing his interests on the side while maintaining a healthy standard of living and providing for his family.
The above two examples are on opposite ends of the spectrum, and I hope they'll give you a broader perspective on what kinds "paycheck at the end of the month"s are out there. Don't go around wondering whether you're going to chase your dreams or endure the crushing force of reality. Identify what you want out of life and gravitate in the general direction of it.
I see all the moms and dads having to spend so much time at work without even enjoying it, just something else they have to do like brusthing your teeth. I want to enjoy it. They may have not had the opportunity to do something else, but thanks to them I do.
I also realize that that guy has it very good. But I am not sure what exactly I am to take away from this.
Initially when I started to think about making game development as a profession (years ago) I pointed out to myself how I liked to code, get creative, solve problems and how good of an excuse it was to play more games :3
But as I kept making games and noting how happy I felt to learn, test, implement, innovate and even fail, I started to feel like as far as professions go this would make me the happiest.
Note, I am only about 22, so there may be things I am yet to learn and experience hence might not be able to relate as well.
As far as everything else I want life to be. Stay close to my parents, preferably have a wife and kids, and have near impossible goals so that I am always on my toe, never bored and mostly productive.
I also realize that that guy has it very good. But I am not sure what exactly I am to take away from this.
Initially when I started to think about making game development as a profession (years ago) I pointed out to myself how I liked to code, get creative, solve problems and how good of an excuse it was to play more games :3
But as I kept making games and noting how happy I felt to learn, test, implement, innovate and even fail, I started to feel like as far as professions go this would make me the happiest.
Note, I am only about 22, so there may be things I am yet to learn and experience hence might not be able to relate as well.
As far as everything else I want life to be. Stay close to my parents, preferably have a wife and kids, and have near impossible goals so that I am always on my toe, never bored and mostly productive.
Dyhalto
7536
author=SaitenHazard
I also realize that that guy has it very good. But I am not sure what exactly I am to take away from this.
The idea is two-fold. One is, you don't want to be one of those people who get themselves stuck in a catch-22 where they hate their job but can't/won't move on. The other is, not all jobs are like that. As long as you stay flexible and keep an eye out for opportunity, you can slide into one of those easy-going gigs where the paychecks come in and your quality of life isn't diminished.
But if you insist on a rice and Kraft Dinner diet, living in a cheap apartment, losing hair from stress, watching your savings run down like a taxi meter, doing everything you can to disguise the reality that you're a bum, and then inevitably going to work anyway, go for it. That's a life experience some people just have to go through in order to build perspective.
I did.
I already lost most of my hair anyways, lol. I realize that all those negative attributes are how the industry works right now and I may as well may be just need to build perspective. There is that tiny chance that I will get lucky or find a way around, mostly can only hope.
But something I took away from this entire thread is not to limit myseld to only games, just incase I need something to fall back on or have a change of heart
But something I took away from this entire thread is not to limit myseld to only games, just incase I need something to fall back on or have a change of heart
There's also the actual industry. Like being part of a large, well funded game studio.
This was my life for 2 years. It was just like having any old job. Except longer hours, less job security, and terrible snacks always available (so you can be kept at the office working in a refined sugar-induced zombie like state)
YMMV of course but the complete loss of creative freedom, strict deadlines to meet, complete surrender of intellectual property, not being allowed to gam mak on the side... my easy, stable job in health care is a far better fit.
This was my life for 2 years. It was just like having any old job. Except longer hours, less job security, and terrible snacks always available (so you can be kept at the office working in a refined sugar-induced zombie like state)
YMMV of course but the complete loss of creative freedom, strict deadlines to meet, complete surrender of intellectual property, not being allowed to gam mak on the side... my easy, stable job in health care is a far better fit.
author=Dyhaltoauthor=SaitenHazardSee, this is the wrong way to look at things. The walk of life is a lot more diverse and full of opportunity than the infantile binary decision of following your dreams vs being a 9-5 rat racer. This choice is way too prevalent in media today, where a self-pitying salaryman protagonist regrets not trying to be a Writer/Rock Star/etc, and it pollutes the expectations young people have as they transition from school to work.
Making a living out of video games would simply mean I get to spend a lot more time making better and better games. I don't need to have the money for every unit of the game, nor do I want to make a fortune. I just want to make a comfortable living out of it so that I do not need to do something else, something I do not want to do, just for the paycheck at the end of the month.
I'm going to give you two case studies.
#1
A lady friend of mine works for an IT company doing mostly web-based stuff. She makes ~$60,000/year, works five days a week, and is exhausted after each workday. All of her energy is drained after eight-to-nine hours, and even one of her two days off is partially spent being a zombie. She has three weeks' vacation, and she burns through it like a house on fire just to get some "me" time. Adding insult to injury, some of her coworkers are shit to be around.
But as much as she hates her job and would like to move on, she feels like she can't. Her company is the highest paying gig in town, meaning she would have to hire on in a different city and leave friends/family behind. She has some hobbies and other interests, but they're falling to the wayside because she has trouble mustering the time and creative energy for them.
#2
A guy I know works for a lumber mill as Weekend Maintenance. He makes slightly over $100,000/year and only works three days a week. He gets three weeks' vacation every year like she does, but doesn't need to take them unless he wants to travel abroad because four days off every single week is plenty of "me" time. As a bonus perk, everyone he works with is a good guy/gal and the environment as a whole is low-gear and fun. The only complaint he has is that sometimes the planners don't leave him enough work for the weekend, so he'll occasionally sit around being bored. FailArmy can only provide so much entertainment.
And obviously, with four days off and lots of cashflow, he has no trouble pursuing his interests on the side while maintaining a healthy standard of living and providing for his family.
The above two examples are on opposite ends of the spectrum, and I hope they'll give you a broader perspective on what kinds "paycheck at the end of the month"s are out there. Don't go around wondering whether you're going to chase your dreams or endure the crushing force of reality. Identify what you want out of life and gravitate in the general direction of it.
To continue in this vein...
In a "designing your dream job" book I read, it looked at how alot of people see a dream as "I'm gonna quit my job and just do art or writing or music." But what it also mentioned was what is called a "bread and butter job". This provides the "bread" you need, but also gives you the "butter", the good stuff like hobbies, family life, etc. This is basically scenario #2. There are some people who try scenario #3, and quit all to become rock stars. I wouldn't recommend this. It looks good on paper, but unless you live with someone who will support your daily expenses, you're getting paid nothing for your work in most cases. This is why many rockstars actually PT with some job that supports travel.
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100712/23482610186.shtml
Having been unemployed for long stretches, I found that I became depressed and bored just sitting home working on games. Not only do you not have to quit everything for your dream, you may find you don't want to. The way to test this out, is taking an entire week off, and spend all of that working on games. At the end, review how you felt. If you feel miserable using the week like that, it is probably better you find something/someone that supports you doing what you love.
There are comic artists that have it as a profession. They usually live off of donations AND a supportive spouse.
author=SaitenHazard
The way to test this out, is taking an entire week off, and spend all of that working on games. At the end, review how you felt. If you feel miserable using the week like that, it is probably better you find something/someone that supports you doing what you love.
Back in school I did use up weeks for a game. Although I did not have to quit anything and it was actually on a school break. Having someone else support me financially does not sound nice at all.
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
Saiten, you say you're in your last year at university? Then you need to figure out your plan of action now. Not in a year. Not in six months. Now. Success stories are not plans.
Talk to your professors and look up companies in your area to see if there are any internships you can apply for over the summer. Some internships are paid, some are not. However, your primary goal is to learn about development in the field. If you're lucky and impress the company you're interning at, you may have a position waiting for you when you graduate. That's a really big "IF", though, so don't assume this to be the case and keep an eye out for other opportunities.
Unfortunately, many places are no longer accepting summer applications. That's why you should hurry up and figure out your exit plan. As the year goes on, even more doors leading to jobs right out of school are continuing to shut. You don't have nearly as much time as you think.
During your time at work and school, you should be making connections. These connections are your lifeblood. As time progresses, your connections may present new opportunities for you to express your creativity more. Whether or not you act on them is all up to you since we don't know your life situation, but please don't go for the romantic "risk it all to make it big" approach.
For every Notch and McMillen, there are hundreds (if not thousands) of untold failure stories that no one wants to read or write about. I'm not saying don't follow your passion, but take a long, hard look at your situation and ask yourself if NOW is the best time to strike out on your own, rather than "oh, these people did it, so I'll do it too!"
Talk to your professors and look up companies in your area to see if there are any internships you can apply for over the summer. Some internships are paid, some are not. However, your primary goal is to learn about development in the field. If you're lucky and impress the company you're interning at, you may have a position waiting for you when you graduate. That's a really big "IF", though, so don't assume this to be the case and keep an eye out for other opportunities.
Unfortunately, many places are no longer accepting summer applications. That's why you should hurry up and figure out your exit plan. As the year goes on, even more doors leading to jobs right out of school are continuing to shut. You don't have nearly as much time as you think.
During your time at work and school, you should be making connections. These connections are your lifeblood. As time progresses, your connections may present new opportunities for you to express your creativity more. Whether or not you act on them is all up to you since we don't know your life situation, but please don't go for the romantic "risk it all to make it big" approach.
For every Notch and McMillen, there are hundreds (if not thousands) of untold failure stories that no one wants to read or write about. I'm not saying don't follow your passion, but take a long, hard look at your situation and ask yourself if NOW is the best time to strike out on your own, rather than "oh, these people did it, so I'll do it too!"
