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[MAFIA] SIMPLE MAFIA FOR NORMAL PEOPLE
Posts
Gourd_Clae
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CloseI suppose if mafia had been targeted by the jailkeeper though then they would be incriminating themselves. Maybe they took the risk or were people who were confident they wold not be targeted?
also to be clear I'm saying mafia didn't target anyone. Not that they targeted me. I realzied that may have been a little ambiguous.
demonlord5000
680
Targeting someone who would likely not be targeted makes the most sense to me with a jailkeeper in play, and if scum already has a lot of town cred right now then they could have afforded the risk. In which case jer would be a very likely target to be scum.
psy_wombats
13315
@demon: No, Gourd's argument isn't unscummy. He's obviously got to fight back somehow, and his only other play is arguing that scum didn't submit a nightkill. Or I guess scum could counterclaim which would be extremely fun for me but I doubt they're ballsy enough for that. He only needs to convince one person to get a hung vote today.
I don't buy that nk isn't blockable. RM's games haven't been super strict about this, but if the kill isn't blockable then a jailkeeper is just a handicapped doctor.
I considered the case that scum intentionally targeted nobody in order to lure a claim out of the jailer. I don't think this is the case for two reasons:
1) There's a 2/5 chance the jailer targets real scum out of dumb luck, negating scum's ability to influence the daykill
2) Apparently people don't get how town roleblocking works so fair chance the jailer wouldn't even realize they'd blocked vs saved
Also, I realize I probably misplayed today and shouldn't have revealed. If we don't kill the roleblocker, I'll just be killed tonight -- jailkeeper vs roleblock+nightkill should work out in scum's favor.
I don't buy that nk isn't blockable. RM's games haven't been super strict about this, but if the kill isn't blockable then a jailkeeper is just a handicapped doctor.
I considered the case that scum intentionally targeted nobody in order to lure a claim out of the jailer. I don't think this is the case for two reasons:
1) There's a 2/5 chance the jailer targets real scum out of dumb luck, negating scum's ability to influence the daykill
2) Apparently people don't get how town roleblocking works so fair chance the jailer wouldn't even realize they'd blocked vs saved
Also, I realize I probably misplayed today and shouldn't have revealed. If we don't kill the roleblocker, I'll just be killed tonight -- jailkeeper vs roleblock+nightkill should work out in scum's favor.
demonlord5000
680
I see. My whole thing is that night-killing itself doesn't seem to be a role itself, and that's where my confusion lies. It's not unreasonable that hes aiming for a hung vote though, which would be extremely bad because we need to lynch someone tonight. I could just not fully understand how it works, but I was also trying to be open minded about the situation.
I'm not planning to vote right now anyways, as I'd rather see what others have to say on the subject.
I'm not planning to vote right now anyways, as I'd rather see what others have to say on the subject.
author=psy_wombats
I don't buy that nk isn't blockable. RM's games haven't been super strict about this, but if the kill isn't blockable then a jailkeeper is just a handicapped doctor.
Lol glad that your argument is just "I don't think so" while stating in the same breath that, on RMN, it's 100% possible. you're a handicapped doctor until only one scum is left than you're an unstoppable scum hunting machine. IT sounds balanced to me.
Consider that, while scum may have gotten unlucky and been targeted, they wouldn't have LOST. This was the day to pull a gambit if they were going to and I'm TOWN so they must have.
anyway I don't want a hung vote. I want one of jeroen, if, locke dead.
btw psy, since there's also a chance I'm innocent, maybe you should try and look at others also, yeah? How are you helping town like this? Being dogmatic about someone who is innocent doesn't help anyone!
btw psy, since there's also a chance I'm innocent, maybe you should try and look at others also, yeah? How are you helping town like this? Being dogmatic about someone who is innocent doesn't help anyone!
psy_wombats
13315
I mean RM's games haven't been strict about who submits the nightkill, but I believe that's mainly because we have things like game moderators who randomly ditch the game on day 2 etc. CAVE is running this one and his mafia experience is more than just this site.
Killing scum is pretty pro-town.
Of those three you listed Gourd, who do you think is scum?
Killing scum is pretty pro-town.
Of those three you listed Gourd, who do you think is scum?
They're all fine options. I'm leaning toward IF and LockeZ (like I said earlier) although when I think about the chances of a gambit, jeroen would be a very good candidate. He's a very skilled player and has been under the radar for a lot of the game so he may have seen the chances of his being targeted by jailkeeper very low.
I'm not sure who we should single in on for the vote though :/ I had a more in depth post a little earlier about why those three if you missed it. If I HAD to pick one it'd probably be IF.
I'm not sure who we should single in on for the vote though :/ I had a more in depth post a little earlier about why those three if you missed it. If I HAD to pick one it'd probably be IF.
author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
Isrieri - 5 :Ebeth,LockeZ,demonlord, Cap_H, Gourd_Clae, Ebeth, LockeZ, psy_wombats
author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
Final Votecount
Ebeth - 4: Psy_Wombats, Jeroen, demonlord, InfectionFiles
Maybe looking at the votecounts could help...? Idk which would contain scum though. The vote on ebeth may have been a display of teamwork by jeroen and IF
Locke is the only on of the thee in the isri lynch, and the rest of the people on the isri lynch were townies. Mayeb scum decided to bow out of that lynch to help keep themselves looking good?
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3885
The nightkill must be an action. One of the possible town roles is tracker, and there is no roleblocker in either of the tracker scenarios. Tell me, what is the use of a town tracker if nightkill isn't an action?
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3885
Also, I was not informed that I was jailed night 1, so unless someone counterclaims psy, you not getting a notification of being jailed means nothing.
Gourd, you've become extremely aggressive and your defense feels like scum on its last legs, pointing the blame everywhere, asking people how their actions help town, etc.
I'm pretty convinced now.
Gourd, you've become extremely aggressive and your defense feels like scum on its last legs, pointing the blame everywhere, asking people how their actions help town, etc.
I'm pretty convinced now.
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3885
By the way, if your answer to "What is the use of a town tracker if nightkill isn't an action?" is to track the doctor, then I raise you scenario 3, which has a Universal Backup, so a Vanilla until the Tracker dies. If nightkill is not an action, that would make both of those PRs literally useless.
author=Jeroen_Sol
Gourd, you've become extremely aggressive and your defense feels like scum on its last legs, pointing the blame everywhere, asking people how their actions help town, etc.
I don't think so. I pointed to 3 people and I gave a very good reason for doing so. I am asking psy to reevaluate his actions because I am town. He needs to see that he's wrong so he can start helping town again.
Sounds to me like you don't like being suspected.
author=Jeroen_Sol
The nightkill must be an action. One of the possible town roles is tracker, and there is no roleblocker in either of the tracker scenarios. Tell me, what is the use of a town tracker if nightkill isn't an action?
I already posited the idea that it'd count as an action when there's only one scum left. That's not useless.
Besides, the fact remains that I was, in fact, not killing anyone. Even if psy is right about his role, and I'm wrong, that wouldn't change the fact that scum could've targeted nobody to incriminate someone today.
Btw, if the NK is an action, who performs it? The vanilla mafia or the mafia roleblocker? If it's shared then jailing me wouldn't have done stopped anything. If you choose one of those two to be the performer of the NK - why? How is that determined? cave choosing one of the two at random would be super janky and I doubt he'd confuse things like that. I'm not seeing the argument here tbh.
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3885
I've seen games where scum choose who performs the kill and games where the goon performs the kill. I suspect both are at play here. (IE if there's a roleblocker and goon, goon performs the kill, if there's two goons scum chooses.) At least that's what I'd do if I were hosting.
Other people than you have suspected me this game, and you say I don't like being suspected? Did I target them for it? You're clearly grasping.
Other people than you have suspected me this game, and you say I don't like being suspected? Did I target them for it? You're clearly grasping.
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3885
Also a tracker and backup tracker seem like pretty shoddy town powers if they only do anything at all after one scum has been lynched.
author=Jeroen_Sol
I've seen games where scum choose who performs the kill and games where the goon performs the kill. I suspect both are at play here. (IE if there's a roleblocker and goon, goon performs the kill, if there's two goons scum chooses.) At least that's what I'd do if I were hosting.
Other people than you have suspected me this game, and you say I don't like being suspected? Did I target them for it? You're clearly grasping.
No, but the thing is, self pres is apparently town behavior until it's the last day where we can't afford to mess up and then the person self presing is "grasping at straws" or "being aggressive" even though I haven't been. That's why I said that - because you're being contradictory now. I suspect it's because the list of suspects is so narrow and has you on it.
Furthermore, I understand psy's insistence about how the NK should be doled out. He probably has an inkling of what his power blocks. I understand myself insisting because I am town and there's been a mistake. But, you? I'm supposed to believe it's because town roles would be too weak in a game that's suppsoed to be real simple anyway? I think you know how NKs are doled out for a reason.
