DELTARUNE

Posts

Pages: 1
On Halloween, the creator of the 2015 indie game, Undertale, released a free demo for what appears to be a spiritual successor. It's labeled as chapter 1 and presumably, Toby Fox has plans to develop a full game out of this. To me, what's been released feels like a complete experience in and of itself. The scope is very small, there's only three areas (plains, forest, castle), and a tease at the end for things to come, but there's also a final boss, a post-game secret boss, a complete character arc, a sense of ending, and it feels like we experience the culmination of the mechanics introduced. So I'd really like to talk about what's been released as its own standalone thing as I've really enjoyed it.

Undertale received a lot of fanfare, and I could see where it was coming from. It had a lot of charm and a unique feeling. That's all still here. I'd say Fox has been very successful in creating an identity for the Undertale branding. If someone can look at an aesthetic and say "that looks like Undertale!" then you've succeeded at that. My feelings on it were the same as my thoughts on Earthbound - the game that inspired it: as an experience, it's wonderful, as an actual game... not so much. The big thing was the mercy mechanic and how you didn't have to fight but could pacify enemies to end encounters instead. This got a lot of praise, but it didn't really change much under the hood. Typically, you would receive some encounter-specific commands under the ACT menu and would use these to pacify foes. Usually, only one of these was effective at convincing the foe not to fight. So if you had two ACT commands in a battle, you either picked the right one and pacified the foe on the next turn or you picked the wrong one and the battle took more turns to complete. This wasn't at all different than having two elemental spells and ending battles sooner if you chose the enemy's weakness. The game mechanics as a set of abstract functions and rules were no different than the most banal menu based combat systems, Undertale just changed the representation of the abstractions. In short, I never got as into the game as others did. Charming experience, mediocre game.

Deltrune, on the other hand, is a good game on top of having all the charm and atmosphere of its predecessor. The shift is like going from Dragon Warrior to Dragon Warrior II. There's party members now! There's also spells and a resource gauge that you build up through various actions. Each of the three characters have their own set of commands and serve a unique function. Your main character has the ACT command and offers context sensitive actions to pacify opponents just like the original game, and then there's a wizard character who has access to support magic that consumes tension points on use. There's a new mechanic in place so that enemies can become tired through certain actions. The wizard's first spell spares tired enemies. Now at first, this doesn't look any different then pacifying enemies normally, but it offers another method to peacefully remove foes from battle that can be quicker but also costs a resource that you have to manage. That's the first thing I noticed that makes Deltrarune different - you actually have interesting stuff and there's different solutions. In Undertale, you either killed the foe or spared them by doing the one specific action to pacify them, Deltarune gives you a few more options to achieve one goal. Sparing tired foes didn't happen to often during my playthrough, but it's a step up.

Now, let's talk about the third party member. At first you don't control her, instead you have to work around her. She's blood thirsty, ignores your commands, and always attacks enemies. Not good if you're doing a pacifist run, however, you can warn enemies about her! At the start of certain battles, you'll need to take a round to warn the opponents and then they'll be able to dodge her attacks while the other two work on pacifying them. I was impressed but after a few battles I began to feel tired of having to warn on the first turn of every battle and then - what do you know - she gets tired herself of hanging around us heroes and leaves. I'm back to two party members for a good stretch and then, once I'm starting to get tired of the way they work together, I get that third party member back with a new outlook as a full playable character that I can now issue commands to.

This is the thing that made see Deltarune as not just good compared to Undertale, but a good RPG in general. It consistently changes up the combat situations so that nothing overstays its welcome. Just when you start getting tired of something - the situation changes and you have to get a grip on new strategies to deal with whatever comes your way.

This applies to enemy encounters as well. There aren't many and they go by quickly. In Undertale, you might find the ACT command that pacifies the enemy and then keep doing that each turn until their name turns yellow and then take another turn to spare them. In Deltarune, if you use the correct ACT command, then that's enough. You only need to do the action once per enemy to get its name to turn yellow and all your party members can spare foes so basically you'll usually be able to pacify and spare an opponent in a single round. Enemy formations and choosing which enemy to target is nice as well. There are support enemies who are easily identified by heart-themed clothing and staffs. There attacks are easier to avoid then others so try pacifying more fearsome stuff first and save support enemies for last. Nothing too complex, but a nice touch and I like using an enemy's look to telegraph something like that to the player.

Then there are Chrono Trigger inspired duel techs and surprisingly, they work better than Chrono Trigger. Yes, CT is one of my all time favorites but its cracks have shown over the years. My biggest gripe with CT is how duel techs to the same amount of damage as just having the characters attack individually. The first boss, Yakra, teaches you the utility of this. It counterattacks everything so it's necessary to dish out the same amount of damage in the least amount of hits to avoid the counterattacks. But after the Yakra battle, this rarely ever comes up again. Deltrarune's duel techs aren't about damage but rather access to more effective context-sensitive ACT commands. These are typically versions of the commands that will target all enemies instead of just one. Very useful to warn all enemies at once that your berserker is about to dish out some damage.

A lot of little things come together to make Deltrarune feel like a full game to me in a way that Undertale never did. It offers multiple solutions to spare enemies, a varied toolbox of status effects and non-damaging commands that all feel useful and I never feel like I'm wasting turns, an element of resource management (and if you suck at the bullet hell segments like I do, managing TP for healing becomes super important), and nothing overstays its welcome, once you figure out a solution, you've already proven to the game that you've solved the problem and it gives you new stuff instead of making you solve the same puzzle a million more times. There's a decent number of ways to interact with enemies and work both with and around your own party members so that it never feels like I'm just mashing the same command over and over. It's a massive step up from Undertale and I'm excited to see where it goes. I thoroughly enjoyed Deltarune, not just as a spin off to Undertale, or as a demo of an eventual game, but as a good game in its own right. I would high recommend it.

Is anyone on here playing it or interested in doing so? Please, share your thoughts!
I never looked that deeply into Undertale, and beyond a slurry of tweets about Deltarune (ALERT NUDE) I hadn't looked into this, either. I appreciate your rundown on both games.
Will have to give it a go sometime soon. I liked Undertale from what I played of it, and Toby's stuff in general is lovely, so I really got nothing to lose.
Isrieri
"My father told me this would happen."
6155
Even if you don't like Undertale (in which case you won't like Deltarune because its more of that) the music is baller.

Toby Fox knows how to construct a soundtrack.
halibabica
RMN's Official Reviewmonger
16948
I finished up playing it just yesterday. I did one pacifist route and one 'genocide' route. I was disappointed that the latter consisted of enemies fleeing from you and no changes to the story beyond the ending being slightly altered.

What OP described about Undertale is accurate, though it's not something that really occurred to me before. Mechanically, the game is fairly rinse and repeat, but the impression I got from Undertale was that the battle mechanics were never the focus. Yes, monsters all have spare conditions, and choosing those conditions is the only logical solution from a tactics standpoint, but when you strip the battle system down to just that, you're ignoring the heart of what made Undertale so successful: it's story.

While the actual mechanics are repetitive, the enemies themselves are not. Each one has its own little story and place in the world. It's revealed through their dialogue, and even the ACT choices you make to spare them. Around every bend is some new, quirky foe, and they're a big part of the game's overall charm.

Conversely, Deltarune's enemies are generally flat and uninteresting. They don't have nearly as much personality and even fighting them the first time is a little bland in that regard...but only in that regard. I agree that Deltarune's battle mechanics are a lot more interesting; I actually like it better for its gameplay than its story.

I think it's interesting that the original game was strong in one area, but weak in the other, while this spiritual sequel is the exact opposite. They're both entertaining games, but for subtly different reasons.
I like that Deltarune is more RPG and not as subversive as Undertale. rather, it's still subversive but not quite in the "What is real?" meta way that the first game was known for (and a type of subversion that, ironically, has become cliche because of Undertale).

I honestly think it's going in the right direction gameplay-wise, and there's no shortage of the fun, slapstick dialogue that tobyfox excels at. But part of me thinks it would have been a wholly better experience as a standalone game rather than an Undertale retelling.
halibabica
RMN's Official Reviewmonger
16948
from Sgt M
I honestly think it's going in the right direction gameplay-wise, and there's no shortage of the fun, slapstick dialogue that tobyfox excels at. But part of me thinks it would have been a wholly better experience as a standalone game rather than an Undertale retelling.

I'd agree to that. I just hope the story takes a more interesting turn. It was painfully cliché to me (Ralsei's legend put me to sleep). From what I've heard, it's confirmed that Deltarune is an AU, so the only direct relation to Undertale is the characters it borrowed.
I played it on the day of the release. It's so good to see the little improvements that have happened from Undertale to this one. The combat mechanis, which can sometime activat ouside the usual context of a battle, was pretty sweet, for example.

The Devil is on the details. I mean, not really details, taking in consideration the scope of the game, but still.
I hate fun RPGs with engaging mechanics, keep that shit away from me. >=(
I was never a fan of Undertale. I just didn't understand the appeal.

But when Deltarune was released and it was free on the Switch, I downloaded and played it...

Now I'm downloading Undertale...

It's a good game. The characters and dialogue are really good and keep you wanting more. The battle system is unique, too, which is a plus.
Rue, to explain it properly, the original appeal of Undertale (before Deltarune got ppl like you interested) was that it was a quirky game, kinda like Earthbound, and Mother 3. Which I recommend you also play.

But I'm glad it got you interested.

Toby Fox knows how to construct a soundtrack.

Omg, yes. I listened to this for hours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WDFUcjWARU

Playing it now. It is alot like the first game (wouldn't have expected that from seeing screenshots).

Having played some of the game but becoming so disgusted with the ending from watching spoilers that I couldn't bring myself to finish (plus I generally hate fatalism as a concept), I have decided the game is essentially a sequel and prequel to the original events.

This actually works with the branching endings of the first one, as you can't do a straight up sequel to all three endings.

Confused? Well, it's like this. In the original game, we have Alphys, Asgore, Goat Mama (forgot her real name), Sans, and Undyne. Here, they are all still characters, and it seems to initially take place after the original story. In the last scene of the good ending of Undertale we see a school being founded, and people are in the surface world. But this is also a story of the past. Because you see, this story vaguely echoes that of Chara (you know, the first child, who wasn't all he's cracked up to be) and Asriel.

Undertale is the story of the present, the choices you make now matter. But Deltarune is a story of the past and the future. You can't really alter the future directly (you change the present, but the future is unknown), and the past is presumably already written. So this is a story of fatalism. That said, this is precisely why I couldn't keep playing. Not into that sorta thing. But I fully expect future chapters to tell a story that is both showing the future of the Undertale timeline, and how it basically turns up like the past somehow.

halibabica
RMN's Official Reviewmonger
16948
Sorry to be a buzzkill, but Toby confirmed that Deltarune is neither a prequel nor a sequel, but an alternate universe that happens to feature some familiar characters.

There was evidence to suggest either thing is the case, but the man himself has spoken.
I wanna see exact words. It feels like Toby's possibly doing the "in a manner of speaking" thing full power and saying alot of stuff that if interpreted slightly differently, is completely wrong.

And I can always claim this.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TrollingCreator

Toby also said that there was only one ending but pffft, how could it be an Undertale story if your choices don't matter! Don't be silly.
I almost forgot I made this topic. It might be a little late to reply to some posts made several months ago, regardless I can understand how people feel Undertale was able to weave in more engaging story and character into it's battles despite Deltarune having more interesting mechanics. Yes, I ignored the story, but it just didn't interest me to talk about. I'm more of a mechanics-focused gamer than a story-focused one, not everyone feels that way, and that's okay.

I will say, I feel like anytime there's an RPG that defies conventional mechanics ('subversive' as a poster above called it), people hone in on the ways it's subversive and end up burying some of the nuances of it's mechanics. It's the same reason I get frustrated whenever I see someone praising Paper Mario but they only talk about timed button presses and the tiny integers.

When I play these subversive RPGs, I notice these little nuances and mechanical ideas that I would love to see applied to a more conventional RPG, and no one ever talks about them. Everyone has put out their two cents on the story and charm of Toby Fox's work, and they are indeed praise-worthy, but I don't want to be everyone else. That's the mindset I was in when I made this topic back in November. I didn't intend to chide off the story elements as trivial, they just didn't inspire me to write a ton of paragraphs like the mechanical nuances did.

Anyways, playing the game again on the Switch recently has me curious how other chapters could progress. Are Kris, Ralsei, and Susie the only party members for the whole ride or will Kris get different buddies per chapter with the last chapter bringing them altogether and asking us to pick between them Dragon Quest IV style? There's a reindeer-looking monster girl in your hometown who seems to have a crush on Susie and had some notable dialogue in both the prologue and the epilogue. I'm thinking she could join the party in a future chapter. I look forward to wherever it goes, hopefully we get to explore some of the Light World too.
The only good thing about both games
is the music...
Pages: 1