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Feldschlacht IV
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CloseWell even though I'm an RM2K3 user (at least until I finish my game!) I'm not advocating a preference for RM2K3 over any engine. I'd love, I'd give my right arm for, artists and users for every game maker, Sphere, Gamemaker, RMXP, RMVX, whatever. It's not just about RM2K3, not by a long shot.
Thank you for completely missing the point of my post.
I will now reiterate it elementary school language and bullet points:
• Artists make up only a fraction of any given RPG Maker site.
• The sites that are having large member growth are those that are focused on the newer engines (and not artists).
• However, a large percentage of those members are aren't quality posters. (I appreciate the relative maturity of our userbase).
And a response:
You don't need an artist for "every game maker". Art is art. Reformating sprites, tiles, etc for user in other game makers is a relatively simple task for modern engines.
I will now reiterate it elementary school language and bullet points:
• Artists make up only a fraction of any given RPG Maker site.
• The sites that are having large member growth are those that are focused on the newer engines (and not artists).
• However, a large percentage of those members are aren't quality posters. (I appreciate the relative maturity of our userbase).
And a response:
You don't need an artist for "every game maker". Art is art. Reformating sprites, tiles, etc for user in other game makers is a relatively simple task for modern engines.
I got the point of what you were saying, but I think you missed my point, bub, let me respond in kind.
-That's fine. I'm not asking for an entire community of artists. But having more can't hurt. Here's an example; GW in it's heyday had a boatload of artistic talent that were into gamemaking, and while it's gamemaking status is pretty questionable, there are still very talented people there. If GW had nothing else, it was creative talent.
-I'm not sure what the point of this is. Then we need to start focusing on newer engines in response. This is a no brainer.
-Unsustainable growth. I'm not disagreeing, but are you saying that you don't want to get bigger? Of course not, but unless you want to make it a specific goal to stay small, I'd just say we'd have to adjust in kind to more people. Personally I'd like to not see the same 30 people posting over and over and over. Even best case scenario, I doubt we can pull of a scenario unsustainable growth any time soon.
I never said we did, but it would be nice to have more. This is all I'm saying.
-That's fine. I'm not asking for an entire community of artists. But having more can't hurt. Here's an example; GW in it's heyday had a boatload of artistic talent that were into gamemaking, and while it's gamemaking status is pretty questionable, there are still very talented people there. If GW had nothing else, it was creative talent.
-I'm not sure what the point of this is. Then we need to start focusing on newer engines in response. This is a no brainer.
-Unsustainable growth. I'm not disagreeing, but are you saying that you don't want to get bigger? Of course not, but unless you want to make it a specific goal to stay small, I'd just say we'd have to adjust in kind to more people. Personally I'd like to not see the same 30 people posting over and over and over. Even best case scenario, I doubt we can pull of a scenario unsustainable growth any time soon.
You don't need an artist for "every game maker". Art is art. Reformating sprites, tiles, etc for user in other game makers is a relatively simple task for modern engines.
I never said we did, but it would be nice to have more. This is all I'm saying.
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=3375.msg67320#msg67320 date=1237698376
Personally I'd like to not see the same 30 people posting over and over and over.
Truer words have never been spoken.
I don't really agree with you on anything else, but it's late and I am in a bad mood so I will spare you any further sarcastic banter.
Natook
1000
I think you take the site for granted too much. This community is already amazing in multiple ways just personality-wise. Sure, things could ALWAYS be better, but why shun the greatness that is already RMN? You always say you realize things are good, but we need more. The site IS growing man, you just gotta let it grow. More people will come, more people will talents will come, more people with fresh ideas will come. A giant community isn't made in a short amount of time. I mean, GW has been around forever. Obviously it didn't start out that big. I personally like seeing the same people post 30 times, with a sprinkle of new-comers just slowly coming into the flow. We don't need OMGZ NEW MIMBERS!11!!eleven1! As long as the site is constantly growing (which it is), then there's nothing to be worried about. This community isn't general by any means at all. Then we have awesome mods who regulate the site incredibly well, and Karsuman is trigger happy with the lock topic button so he's always there to lock topics that get out of hand, which I believe plays a major role in why the community is so stable. We're all here having a good time, so there's not much more you would need, right?
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=3375.msg67289#msg67289 date=1237689947
You go to Deviant Art, man. Regardless if you 'know' people there or not, get the word out. This is what I'm talking about; explore every avenue you have.
Lol, funny that you mention it, I only know maybe 2 people out of the rpgmaker scenery in that site. The rest of the people I have added, are already RM developers, and some of them even have an account here.
Well, I know that you guys focus more on ika, sphere, 2k3 and rmvx... I rarely see rmxp stuff in here, and to be honest I'm glad. I know that this might have sounded weird, but
It has a good side to it... for example, most members here are mature enough, and doesn't start shit. I come from a community that we dealt with a lot of VX newbies and a lot of idiot members who are lazy, untalented, etc... so yeah, I think that the community here is doing fine, for the fact that you, or should I say "We" are focused on releasing our projects, and at the same time we post around topics or contribute on threads... at least "I" do.
Well, on my side I'm going to be contributing to the community, from time to time.
Getting new artists is fine, but remember that this is a site for RM* developers, not for artists. I advise against heavy exhibitionism at other sites. If people really want to get into game creation, they'll find us (or another rpgmaker/game dev/whatever site) on their own. Trying to force a traffic influx is usually counterproductive.
What is with this obsession with artists, also? I'm very tempted to agree with Ciel's talking points. When stuff like this is posted, it just sounds like you want potential workhorses for your projects. Game creation is already something of an artistic craft on many levels. Does it matter if that person can draw or sprite or write music or juggle, too?
1) This isn't an artist's/musician's community. Most people that join will not be competent at an art craft, or be unwilling to express it. I can understand the desire to get more artists - creative influence and, potentially, working for your game. But this all happens on its own. The site is growing every day.
2) This IS a game developer's community, which means that the people joining are at least semi-interested in game creation, even if they are inexperienced/terrible at it/not making one themselves. If they happen to be good at another form of art, that's cool, but it's hardly a requirement for making a good game, so it is not something we focus on too much.
tl;dr: This sounds like you want artists to enslave, whether you intended it that way or not(apparently not). People will join on their own regardless of their talents or skills. If you happen to know someone that might be interested, send them our way. Otherwise, don't bother.
What is with this obsession with artists, also? I'm very tempted to agree with Ciel's talking points. When stuff like this is posted, it just sounds like you want potential workhorses for your projects. Game creation is already something of an artistic craft on many levels. Does it matter if that person can draw or sprite or write music or juggle, too?
1) This isn't an artist's/musician's community. Most people that join will not be competent at an art craft, or be unwilling to express it. I can understand the desire to get more artists - creative influence and, potentially, working for your game. But this all happens on its own. The site is growing every day.
2) This IS a game developer's community, which means that the people joining are at least semi-interested in game creation, even if they are inexperienced/terrible at it/not making one themselves. If they happen to be good at another form of art, that's cool, but it's hardly a requirement for making a good game, so it is not something we focus on too much.
tl;dr: This sounds like you want artists to enslave, whether you intended it that way or not(apparently not). People will join on their own regardless of their talents or skills. If you happen to know someone that might be interested, send them our way. Otherwise, don't bother.
god, way to ruin the mood, Buzz Killington.
But seriously, Karsu is right about the artist/developer thing. Although it would be nice to have some new blood instead of the same old shit :)
But seriously, Karsu is right about the artist/developer thing. Although it would be nice to have some new blood instead of the same old shit :)
1. I do not want any sort of artistic workhorse or anything to slave at our games. I emphasize that again and again. If people with creative talent join up, collaboration will happen on its own; I don't want to force or even necessarily emphasize that becaue if more people come around, it'll be natural. I want people with creative talents to work on their own things and projects, so everyone benefits from playing it. There have been countless times I've seen an awesome flash from Newgrounds or a stellar piece of art from Deviant Art and though "Wow, I wish this person knew about game making." Believe it or not, not everyone does!
2. Keep in mind that I'm not into 'forcing' people with creative talent to come and post here if they're not interested at all in game design or creation. But there are plenty of people out there that aren't aware of RPG Maker, Sphere, ika, whatever, and getting those people to check us out if interested is a goal. I'm just saying that I think diversity and variety in the types of people in our game making community can do nothing but good. It's not a requirement, but it can't hurt.
3. And yes, there is the 'same old shit' argument. But that's not a problem perse because we are growing.
2. Keep in mind that I'm not into 'forcing' people with creative talent to come and post here if they're not interested at all in game design or creation. But there are plenty of people out there that aren't aware of RPG Maker, Sphere, ika, whatever, and getting those people to check us out if interested is a goal. I'm just saying that I think diversity and variety in the types of people in our game making community can do nothing but good. It's not a requirement, but it can't hurt.
3. And yes, there is the 'same old shit' argument. But that's not a problem perse because we are growing.
Mr. Y
300
author=Holbert link=topic=3375.msg67314#msg67314 date=1237697342
You are asking for unsustainable growth.
That's what I said to your mother last night!! Oh ho ho ho ho, high fives to me 8).
But seriously, I agree with the general gist of the argument that, even if we lure a bunch of spriters and other artists to RM.net temporarily with promises of candy and toy ponies, they may get tired and leave when they realize that we're not really a community for artists. Building 'naturally' a community with some artists seems more preferable, since these people will come and stick around because they like the site/gamemaking with RM* engines.
Like I said before, I don't really have new ideas for the site to actively seek growth, except a concentrated effort to develop unique content not on (or better than the stuff on) other websites, followed by posts in Ye Olde Advertising Forums mentioning this unique content and cool, mature crowd. This kind of plan takes a lot of work to prevent from becoming a juggernaut of mediocrity, however :P (like if you 'hire' staffers or push out ad threads in 12 different forums.)
(However, I'd still like for there to be some kind of plan for growth! Only that we keep the emphasis on quality, not quantity.)
I think that what the community truly needs is dedication and developers here to open up their mind in order to become what they are not right now... and that involves spriting... I'm sure that a lot of you probably haven't even tried doing this... seriously, this you can learn with some studying and practicing... Same as for drawing. Talent is something, but who said spriting/drawing isn't a skill that you can't learn? yes you can, not saying you might be the best at it, nor the worst, how about trying? cause I tried already, and I think you could do the same if you really want it to.
I think that we need more players. Like, I'm not going to play most games here but I want 'new blood' to play my games. I also don't really care about omgartists or whatever, so I guess this is a pretty useless post.
lol?
MODIFY: I read a bit more of the thread, and I agree with F-G. I have little desire to make/finish/update games because my topics always get buried under new topics that get buried under new topics and none of them get bumped by anybody except the topic creator.
MODIFY2: Add-on: so I guess that I'm saying "you're losing me!" which would suck because I make cool games that five people play.
<kentona> I PREDICT THAT SIX PEOPLE ARE GOING TO PLAY HERO'S REALM <Craze> lol you are being optimistic
lol?
MODIFY: I read a bit more of the thread, and I agree with F-G. I have little desire to make/finish/update games because my topics always get buried under new topics that get buried under new topics and none of them get bumped by anybody except the topic creator.
MODIFY2: Add-on: so I guess that I'm saying "you're losing me!" which would suck because I make cool games that five people play.
<kentona> I PREDICT THAT SIX PEOPLE ARE GOING TO PLAY HERO'S REALM <Craze> lol you are being optimistic
http://www.rpgmaker.net/forums/index.php?topic=3349
"Before turning to those moral and mental aspects of the matter which present the greatest difficulties, let the inquirer begin by mastering more elementary problems."
-Sherlock Holmes
"Before turning to those moral and mental aspects of the matter which present the greatest difficulties, let the inquirer begin by mastering more elementary problems."
-Sherlock Holmes
author=Craze link=topic=3375.msg67415#msg67415 date=1237755113
http://www.rpgmaker.net/forums/index.php?topic=3349
"Before turning to those moral and mental aspects of the matter which present the greatest difficulties, let the inquirer begin by mastering more elementary problems."
-Sherlock Holmes
i counterspell your lightning bolt k
http://www.rpgmaker.net/forums/index.php?topic=3272.0
As god emperor and keeper of the golden RMN throne, I am perfectly happy with the growth the site has seen. We do not need forum posts and more threads to denote our worth, because this is not a community about posting and making threads. It's about game development.
It is easy to quantify our success by thesheer number of robots you can conjure in your mind games we have here.
And that is what disappoints me. We are game developers, so where are all the games? I have an excuse because I coded the site and am working on a game engine. But the rest of you do not!
And not only that, but since we have these games, we need to find people to play them. That is the entire issue with the community. It relies on itself for game playing. That is a huge issue. As developers, we are primarily producers and not consumers. We want to create. Why waste time PLAYING when you could be CREATING? I would say the majority of people here lean more on the creating side.
To finish up, sure artists can come here, but as Kars said, the site is not geared toward them. We need people to play games. That is who you should be asking to come here.
It is easy to quantify our success by the
And that is what disappoints me. We are game developers, so where are all the games? I have an excuse because I coded the site and am working on a game engine. But the rest of you do not!
And not only that, but since we have these games, we need to find people to play them. That is the entire issue with the community. It relies on itself for game playing. That is a huge issue. As developers, we are primarily producers and not consumers. We want to create. Why waste time PLAYING when you could be CREATING? I would say the majority of people here lean more on the creating side.
To finish up, sure artists can come here, but as Kars said, the site is not geared toward them. We need people to play games. That is who you should be asking to come here.
Keep in mind that I've not emphasized more people for forum posts, more threads, and the like (although that's never a bad side effect of growth). I am emphasizing the points I made to get people (in this case, people with creative talent, not necessarily 'artists') to come here to see a greater variety in the games created and games with awesome original content.
People such as pixel artists (which are the most likely artists to get into game making if they haven't already), composers, and the like. I'm not asking for creative talent to come here just for the sake of being here (to address the point of the site not being geared for artists), but to contribute into the reason we're all here, to make games.
This is correct, and I fundamentally agree with what you're saying overall. It is a good point that I missed that we need more game players to come here.
People such as pixel artists (which are the most likely artists to get into game making if they haven't already), composers, and the like. I'm not asking for creative talent to come here just for the sake of being here (to address the point of the site not being geared for artists), but to contribute into the reason we're all here, to make games.
And not only that, but since we have these games, we need to find people to play them. That is the entire issue with the community. It relies on itself for game playing. That is a huge issue. As developers, we are primarily producers and not consumers. We want to create. Why waste time PLAYING when you could be CREATING? I would say the majority of people here lean more on the creating side.
To finish up, sure artists can come here, but as Kars said, the site is not geared toward them. We need people to play games. That is who you should be asking to come here.
This is correct, and I fundamentally agree with what you're saying overall. It is a good point that I missed that we need more game players to come here.
D-Bones
227
I could help out with the whole spriting thing. I love spriting, all of the monsters in Avian Legends were sprited by me (except one). Hell, if anyone needs something drawn, pm.
