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INDIE VS. AMATEUR - AN ARTICLE EVERYONE SHOULD READ
Posts
Karsuman
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CloseI thought I responded to this. Huh. Guess not.
Ham-fisted, self-righteous blather aside, this guy's generalizations are probably close enough to the truth for people to feel uncomfortable about it.
Which means he also, probably, has a point. =)
Pro tip: Stop getting your nuts in a twist over some article writer at a site that is the interweb's equivalent of a Star Trek convention, guys.
Ham-fisted, self-righteous blather aside, this guy's generalizations are probably close enough to the truth for people to feel uncomfortable about it.
Which means he also, probably, has a point. =)
Pro tip: Stop getting your nuts in a twist over some article writer at a site that is the interweb's equivalent of a Star Trek convention, guys.
I think the problem is that there is a point in his article. However, it is so muddled with assumptions and falsehoods that make it hard for me to take seriously. He makes a few good points later in the article, but his basis is entirely wrong.
There is a very fuzzy line between amateur and indie. I couldn't tell you what the key differences are, but I usually figure money is a deciding factor.
I am also highly offended that he said I don't know about type safety.
And you know, after rereading this, I think everyone should relax a bit. I actually laughed to myself reading some of the stuff. "Make it by looking for website hosting" is funny. A lot of his bolded points are funny if you think about them.
There is a very fuzzy line between amateur and indie. I couldn't tell you what the key differences are, but I usually figure money is a deciding factor.
I am also highly offended that he said I don't know about type safety.
And you know, after rereading this, I think everyone should relax a bit. I actually laughed to myself reading some of the stuff. "Make it by looking for website hosting" is funny. A lot of his bolded points are funny if you think about them.
MayorAnime
282
author=Nightblade link=topic=3462.msg70462#msg70462 date=1239582373
Aren't these two entities one in the same? This all reeks of some kind of artificial label an egotist would use to elevate themselves above others.
My one word reply to this article : Tripe.
Agreed.
Don't let this article influence your self-image, guys. The best 'indie' developers started just like us, or maybe without the benefit of an online community.
author=GreatRedSpirit link=topic=3462.msg69214#msg69214 date=1238731998
How to be an indie game / serious software developer in two easy steps!
1) Create a design document
2) Follow the damn design document
At the risk of contradicting myself, I agree here too. Organizing yourself, ala Design Document, is the mark of someone who wants to take himself seriously.
If you don't take yourself and your craft (see game design) seriously, no one else will.
Reives
1087
Heheh, I enjoyed that quite a bit. To be honest, I found it pretty alarmingly helpful at points.
author=Karsuman link=topic=3462.msg70501#msg70501 date=1239639511
Pro tip: Stop getting your nuts in a twist over some article writer at a site that is the interweb's equivalent of a Star Trek convention, guys.
Be careful who you insult, you never know when it will come back to haunt you. :(
This one time, I told a manager of a Wal*Mart store that the store name had an asterisk and not a dash in it. Since then, I was banned from #rm2k three+ times (and I know that only once-ish was McDohl's decision!).
So be careful who you insult, indeed.
So be careful who you insult, indeed.
Dang it Craze, the official spelling is Wal-Mart. The asterisk is only found on the Wal-Mart semis, with the asterisk honoring Sam Walton. Either point is moot, however, as the new logo drops both in favor of a modern look.*
* The official spelling still has a hyphen.
* The official spelling still has a hyphen.
Dark Gaia
3474
Back on topic, yes the guy does make some valid points, though they seem to be directed to the truly ameteur of ameteurs, as when he talks about ill concieved features and unfinished games etc, he is generalizing what most nooby RM games will be like, but what he does fail to see is that there are ameteurly developed games that are truly well made and could sometimes stand up to most indie games.
How can he clearly define a line between indie and ameteur? He says that games "made in RPG Maker" are ameteur games, yet he also mentions the release of Eternal Eden "a wonderful indie RPG" in another of his articles, which was also made in RPG Maker.
How can he clearly define a line between indie and ameteur? He says that games "made in RPG Maker" are ameteur games, yet he also mentions the release of Eternal Eden "a wonderful indie RPG" in another of his articles, which was also made in RPG Maker.
author=Dark Gaia link=topic=3462.msg70613#msg70613 date=1239680776
How can he clearly define a line between indie and ameteur? He says that games "made in RPG Maker" are ameteur games, yet he also mentions the release of Eternal Eden "a wonderful indie RPG" in another of his articles, which was also made in RPG Maker.
See, that's the problem with making generalizations: you can't.
Dark Gaia
3474
Just one of the many things this guy failed to realize before he wrote an article based on his personal opinions and generalizations, and no hard evidence. Maybe he should have actually played a few ameteur games first, then he would have found some games that blatantly contradict his points.
Personally I think it all lay in the heart.
If you put love into your artwork people will notice.
It's like Dark Gaia said, it's a critic thing. It's easy to sit back and create articles about this stuff (well...it takes time that's for sure) but creating by yourself can be a tough task and one that takes a LOT of heart.
If you put love into your artwork people will notice.
It's like Dark Gaia said, it's a critic thing. It's easy to sit back and create articles about this stuff (well...it takes time that's for sure) but creating by yourself can be a tough task and one that takes a LOT of heart.
Dark Gaia
3474
I agree. If you put time and effort into your game, it's always going to be better than if you made it in half an hour not really caring what you are doing. I feel that if a game creator seriously attempts to add something to their game, commercial or not, they can make it a great game regardless of what anyone else thinks.
captainregal
1356
First off there is a lot of talent that hangs out at this site. If this community pulled together to make a game. We would make alot of indie games very nervous. There is something to be said for making a game that is born from passion and one that is born to make a buck.
AznChipmunk
4613
author=Holbert link=topic=3462.msg70599#msg70599 date=1239675700
Dang it Craze, the official spelling is Wal-Mart. The asterisk is only found on the Wal-Mart semis, with the asterisk honoring Sam Walton. Either point is moot, however, as the new logo drops both in favor of a modern look.*
* The official spelling still has a hyphen.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Walmart_exterior.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/83/Walmart_NMK3.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a4/WalmartMoncton.JPG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/53/Wal*Mart_Drive.png
er, sorry about that. hope that doesn't come back to haunt me...
author=captainregal link=topic=3462.msg71037#msg71037 date=1239936653
First off there is a lot of talent that hangs out at this site. If this community pulled together to make a game.
Direct me to this talent, bub!
Dark Gaia
3474
I think there is a lot of talent in the RM community. I know several RM games that can cause a worry to indie games.
author=AznChipmunk link=topic=3462.msg71039#msg71039 date=1239936880
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Walmart_exterior.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/83/Walmart_NMK3.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a4/WalmartMoncton.JPG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/53/Wal*Mart_Drive.png
er, sorry about that. hope that doesn't come back to haunt me...
BANNED.
Yeah, that was a brainfart -- almost all the stores have a star (not a asterisk) on their buildings, but it's still not the official name of the store. Just look at any of their SEC submissions.
I don't see much more life in this thread, especially if I keep talking about Wal-Mart in it.
Azn is my new best friend.
Also, as a retort to an earlier statement: ever since the KGC translations, I think that pretty much EVERY RMVX user has been like "OH GOD THROW THIS IN, I DON'T CARE IF I HAVE TO COMPLETELY REBALANCE THE GAME OR NOT!1!11!!!!", myself included. AP systems are not just for "nooby" games!
Also, as a retort to an earlier statement: ever since the KGC translations, I think that pretty much EVERY RMVX user has been like "OH GOD THROW THIS IN, I DON'T CARE IF I HAVE TO COMPLETELY REBALANCE THE GAME OR NOT!1!11!!!!", myself included. AP systems are not just for "nooby" games!
Darken
3952
author=Craze link=topic=3462.msg71196#msg71196 date=1240056534
"OH GOD THROW THIS IN, I DON'T CARE IF I HAVE TO COMPLETELY REBALANCE THE GAME OR NOT!1!11!!!!"
I haven't! ... okay maybe once..
Anyway did it ever occur to anyone that you can technically be an amateur indie developer or a professional indie developer? Since when did indie mean anything other than independent? I wasn't notified, no phone call, no email, didn't even get a fucking fax. Why is amateur and indie separate terms here?
