HOW TO SUCCEED

But Neo, you forgot that every map needs to be as busy as possible. So busy, in fact, that you can't see what you are doing!

Basically: You are making a GAME, guys, not a loosely connected series of maps. When I think of RM* maps, the thing that most quickly comes to mind is Kinetic Cipher (Again). Why is that? The maps were memorable because they all served a PURPOSE and had a FUNCTION. They were not there to fulfill some delusional goal of RM* high art with graphics that are likely stolen anyway. Map design should be in service to the game, not the other way around.



Also, Blind: You really can't talk. Aesthetically pleasing your maps may be, but there are only so many massive fields of NOTHING that I can walk through before getting bored. You actively ignore the most important rules of map design on a consistent basis and for that reason the only map of yours I can really remember is that gigantic field that is littered with useless chests after getting generic healer chick #573. I assure you this one thing; it was not because it was enjoyable.

post=100305
If you think he is bad, I have a challenge for you.

-Go through one of his games and try to count the rooms that don't have a treasure or is not important to the progression of the game.

-Now go through your own game and do the same. Compare the results. You may be surprised...

The number, minus maps not yet complete, is 0. So there! MAPPING EXPERT

post=100305

post=100286
When you are an RM2k3 MAPPING EXPERT like me

Kaempfer buddy, I agree with you, but I think you are getting ahead of yourself... :)

I was only kidding of course but I am a pretty damn good mapper. Years of carefully examining beautifully crafted SNES RPGs while ripping graphics and learning their tricks through the removal of background layers in ZSNES to study the mechanics behind a map, not just it's finished product, have given me a great deal of insight into the process. Design and aesthetics are two separate but inexorably linked fields, and I only wish I had the time to make each map as good as it can get. There comes a point where, as a single person trying to make an entire game, I have to decide that a map is "good enough" and move on to the next one.

I find that people tend to focus on one or the other too much (Blind for aesthetics and Craze for design, for instance), but I try to fall in the middle and provide ample candy in both fields. It doesn't always work, but I think you guys will be pleased.

Your first paragraph was alright, Blind. Your second one is where I will now begin to assault you.

Functionality is the #1 goal of a game. If the game doesn't work, then you cannot play the game. This is such a fundamental idea of a all games ever, it is amazing you cannot grasp it. You are simply glossing over this fact with examples of "interactive storytelling" or "scare factor", when you are not appropriating the proper aspect of them.

The fact was that these examples were functional. In the games they were used in, they worked. You don't understand what functional means so you have no right to try and argue against it.

Thank you and have a nice day.

I came in here to say what WIP said but he articulated it better than I was going to.

Blind, I am not trying to call you out or insult you or anything, but you can't ignore game design because of aesthetics. Not everyone is good at game design. Like you said, it takes some talent at it, as does anything.

Let me give you a very easy example of style over substance, drawn from the first five minutes of gameplay from your game: You litter the fields with LOTS AND LOTS of plants, and while I don't have any issue with that since I like a good busy map myself, you then made those plants block movement. Now the aesthetics are actually hindering the design. That's... not good. I liked BR and I think the demos were definite improvements over their precursors, but there is doubt whatsoever that the design end isn't holding itself up.

I also strongly disagree that good game design is in the eye of the beholder (more than anything is in the eye of the beholder because some people eyes are broke apparently). There are genres of games that I don't like. Too bad for those genres, I guess. But within the genres I do like, there are a wildly varied selection of games. Some of them have excellent aesthetics (I can think of a few RTSes that do this) but shite design. There is no arguing it's shite design. It's unintuitive and clunky, and it's repetitive and unfulfilling. That is BAD DESIGN. While certain people appreciate certain design elements more than other, a complete package of good design is always going to be a complete package of good design. Look at... oh, Half-Life 2, for instance. It is a masterwork of good game design. And it's probably the best selling PC game of all time. That's not a coincidence.

edit: Apparently the Sims is the best selling PC game of all time with 16 million copies shipped, but HL2's retail sales of 6.5 million have been at least equaled and more than likely surpassed by it's Steam sales, which means at least 13 million copies of HL2 have been sold, making it the second best selling game of all time.

post=100377
He kind of liked V&V.
I just wondered if anyone noticed that.

Huh? What?

How do you make an RPG???

None of you know anything about the 3 tile rule. Listen up, kids. It's from a topic xXnemesis29Xx made, in late 2005 as a clever way to promote (hype) the upcoming release of Legend of the Philosopher's Stone Part 2. It was called "How to make maps like LotPS" or something. Inside was a tutorial on how to make a very natural looking forest area. Nemesis suggested that using more than 3 of the same tile in a straight line might detract from the organic feel of the forest, since with tiles anything that straight can begin to look manufactured. People interpreted this as "do not ever put 3 of the same tile in a row in any situation". Various jokes about the 3 tile rule came about. People began attributing the "rule" to Badluck after various jokesters began painting him as a highly-educated professor of mapping and RM2K. Now everyone has heard of the famous 3 tile rule and nobody knows what it is............ maybe one day, nobody who remembers will remain...........

post=100339
Hey does anyone remember Faroz Flare from GW? The guy everyone jerked over because of his beautiful maps?

All of his maps suck. The end.

His maps looked very good. But you literally could not walk on them. That's fine though, because nobody ever got the chance to as he never released anything l.m.a.o. People have often complained about cluttered maps, which I find kind of stupid because traversing 16 bit maps 1 tile at a time is not really compelling game play whether they are wide open or incredibly cluttered. You are just going from A to B no matter what, it's not like these are Action RPGs we are dealing with here! But yeah, Faroz crossed the line...

Yeah. Actually, last year during the winter I wrote something in where if you marquee select several tiles and then select "natural draw" or "natural fill", you would draw one of the tiles in your marquee at random. This was because I was lazy but still wanted a desert texture with a quick way to draw it.

ONE OF THE GREATEST MYSTERIES IS A PIECE OF CORNY WORDPLAY