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HYPE AND HOW IT AFFECTS YOU
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AznChipmunk
4613
Okay time to get this back on track!
Hyping hyping hyping... I essentially agree with what Ciel has to say. Hyping IS marketing. There is good marketing, bad marketing, and then there is annoying marketing.
Annoying marketing can be several things but mainly:
1. marketing without a product
2. over marketing
#1 is basically marketing CUSTOM FEATURES from your game that don't even exist yet! this also includes stuff like mockups without going HEY GUYS THIS IS A MOCKUP, feedback plz? #2 is doing shit like... posting 100 useless one liner updates or whatnot. No one cares about HEY I'M CHANGING ONE CHARSET or something... "Good" updates should reveal some information that is relevant, like introducing characters, or maybe a team member.
In any case, I don't exactly remember, but I feel the "Legion incident" went into both categories. That was quite some time ago though, so I don't remember quite what happened, except for that revealing one character every so often thing.
Personally, I absolutely suck at hyping/marketing. Well, actually, I guess I don't suck, but I sort of take the stance that Darken and Kaempfer take, where I don't really like to show off or talk about it much until I have something playable! Unfortunately, this has almost always backfired on me in that I don't get anyone to play my game (Mindflare). However, when I do have a complete/mostly-complete product I will be making video trailers for projects, as I have experience in film editing.
If I recall... Muse was put up at the nagging of WIP and Chromatose was put up since it was part of a contest. I've actually been consistently reediting Muse's profile because I feel the summary gives TOO much info. The current summary is a fairly thick single paragraph... when it used to be about 3. There are actually a few blog posts on the profile that I feel give away too much, or show off stuff I wanted to be secretive about, but I didn't want to retract them since people commented on them. (YDS had posted them while I was away.)
As for Chromatose... there is really very little info on the gamepage... but screenshots and a few other things have gone up since my team and I have really been too excited about the project, and I personally didn't put them up. I even deleted a few that I felt were too much! Even though they probably weren't.
Anyways, I feel that there needs to be the right mix. If you have no release, you should show off some stuff occasionally to generate SOME interest, otherwise no one may play it when it's released. Releasing a demo or a teaser can be used to generate good interest, as well as giving people who visit the gamepage something to take a look at other than mere screenshots. If you are the type to go straight for a full release you really SHOULD try to generate a good amount of interest beforehand, since a demo/teaser followed by a full game tends to generate much more interest as people who may have wanted to continue from the demo will be excited.
Also the best blog posts are the ones that provoke actual discussions... like the one a while back about Mog's item bonuses for checking bookshelves. And these types of blog posts are excellent ways of generating interest.
The best thing though, is really, reading your audience and seeing what they want. People come to RMN looking for traditional RPGs. Other games will most likely go undownloaded (although they may have profile visits.) For example, the game, Ghost Voyage was on the FRONT PAGE for quite a while but it has under 200 downloads. So that is kind of the difference between... making the game for yourself and making the game for the audience (lol selling out).
Making a traditional-looking game with FF rips or whatever really does get the most attention. (see The Colony)
Anyways I could talk a bit more about it but I'm sick, it's nearly 3 AM and I oughta head off.
edit:
actually a bit more
on the screenshots thing, screenshots are essentially the FIRST thing people pay attention to
you can have a wall of character bios or info summary but honestly screenshots are the first thing people look at
i remember back when we had advert threads, essentially everyone scrolled down to the screenshots right away
this is because there are a ton of games and out-of-game, their plots aren't unique (not saying they aren't unique, but it's really hard to tell if it a plot will stand out just by reading it from the gameprofile). Screenshots are what make games stand out and attractive. Videos are even better. Both are akin to film trailers. You can't necessarily tell if a film is bad or good from a trailer just like you can't tell if a book is bad or good from the cover. But it's the FIRST thing you see, and thus, the screenshot craze.
Hyping hyping hyping... I essentially agree with what Ciel has to say. Hyping IS marketing. There is good marketing, bad marketing, and then there is annoying marketing.
Annoying marketing can be several things but mainly:
1. marketing without a product
2. over marketing
#1 is basically marketing CUSTOM FEATURES from your game that don't even exist yet! this also includes stuff like mockups without going HEY GUYS THIS IS A MOCKUP, feedback plz? #2 is doing shit like... posting 100 useless one liner updates or whatnot. No one cares about HEY I'M CHANGING ONE CHARSET or something... "Good" updates should reveal some information that is relevant, like introducing characters, or maybe a team member.
In any case, I don't exactly remember, but I feel the "Legion incident" went into both categories. That was quite some time ago though, so I don't remember quite what happened, except for that revealing one character every so often thing.
Personally, I absolutely suck at hyping/marketing. Well, actually, I guess I don't suck, but I sort of take the stance that Darken and Kaempfer take, where I don't really like to show off or talk about it much until I have something playable! Unfortunately, this has almost always backfired on me in that I don't get anyone to play my game (Mindflare). However, when I do have a complete/mostly-complete product I will be making video trailers for projects, as I have experience in film editing.
If I recall... Muse was put up at the nagging of WIP and Chromatose was put up since it was part of a contest. I've actually been consistently reediting Muse's profile because I feel the summary gives TOO much info. The current summary is a fairly thick single paragraph... when it used to be about 3. There are actually a few blog posts on the profile that I feel give away too much, or show off stuff I wanted to be secretive about, but I didn't want to retract them since people commented on them. (YDS had posted them while I was away.)
As for Chromatose... there is really very little info on the gamepage... but screenshots and a few other things have gone up since my team and I have really been too excited about the project, and I personally didn't put them up. I even deleted a few that I felt were too much! Even though they probably weren't.
Anyways, I feel that there needs to be the right mix. If you have no release, you should show off some stuff occasionally to generate SOME interest, otherwise no one may play it when it's released. Releasing a demo or a teaser can be used to generate good interest, as well as giving people who visit the gamepage something to take a look at other than mere screenshots. If you are the type to go straight for a full release you really SHOULD try to generate a good amount of interest beforehand, since a demo/teaser followed by a full game tends to generate much more interest as people who may have wanted to continue from the demo will be excited.
Also the best blog posts are the ones that provoke actual discussions... like the one a while back about Mog's item bonuses for checking bookshelves. And these types of blog posts are excellent ways of generating interest.
The best thing though, is really, reading your audience and seeing what they want. People come to RMN looking for traditional RPGs. Other games will most likely go undownloaded (although they may have profile visits.) For example, the game, Ghost Voyage was on the FRONT PAGE for quite a while but it has under 200 downloads. So that is kind of the difference between... making the game for yourself and making the game for the audience (lol selling out).
Making a traditional-looking game with FF rips or whatever really does get the most attention. (see The Colony)
Anyways I could talk a bit more about it but I'm sick, it's nearly 3 AM and I oughta head off.
edit:
actually a bit more
on the screenshots thing, screenshots are essentially the FIRST thing people pay attention to
you can have a wall of character bios or info summary but honestly screenshots are the first thing people look at
i remember back when we had advert threads, essentially everyone scrolled down to the screenshots right away
this is because there are a ton of games and out-of-game, their plots aren't unique (not saying they aren't unique, but it's really hard to tell if it a plot will stand out just by reading it from the gameprofile). Screenshots are what make games stand out and attractive. Videos are even better. Both are akin to film trailers. You can't necessarily tell if a film is bad or good from a trailer just like you can't tell if a book is bad or good from the cover. But it's the FIRST thing you see, and thus, the screenshot craze.
I'm hesitant to even enter this conversation again but...
In theory this is a good idea but in practice it's a bit trickier. Like you can make a blog post that directly asks readers a question to try and start a discussion and still no one responds.
Also the best blog posts are the ones that provoke actual discussions... like the one a while back about Mog's item bonuses for checking bookshelves. And these types of blog posts are excellent ways of generating interest.
In theory this is a good idea but in practice it's a bit trickier. Like you can make a blog post that directly asks readers a question to try and start a discussion and still no one responds.
post=131984
I'm hesitant to even enter this conversation again but...
Also the best blog posts are the ones that provoke actual discussions... like the one a while back about Mog's item bonuses for checking bookshelves. And these types of blog posts are excellent ways of generating interest.
In theory this is a good idea but in practice it's a bit trickier. Like you can make a blog post that directly asks readers a question to try and start a discussion and still no one responds.
http://rpgmaker.net/games/1955/blog/2334/
Nightblade
2723
post=132005post=131984http://rpgmaker.net/games/1955/blog/2334/
I'm hesitant to even enter this conversation again but...
Also the best blog posts are the ones that provoke actual discussions... like the one a while back about Mog's item bonuses for checking bookshelves. And these types of blog posts are excellent ways of generating interest.
In theory this is a good idea but in practice it's a bit trickier. Like you can make a blog post that directly asks readers a question to try and start a discussion and still no one responds.
...I don't get it.
That was amusing, Craze. With no malice, I do wish I could get away with linking to my blogs as often as you do, but I think people would probably give me shit. Then again I should (and will) make more blog posts. I am just now getting how that site feature is actually supposed to be used (you do a good job of it).
post=Azn
lots of good points
As an addendum to that, when choosing what images to upload to your gameprofile, try to pick a good variety of evocative screenshots. Think of the screenshot tab of your gameprofile like an executive summary of your game - choose the ones that best exemplify your game and how it will play.
Darken
3952
I'd like to point out that screenshots of the menu/save/load screen are really bad if you're using RM's default menu, all you're really doing is like... showing off facesets and the system graphix. Doesn't really characterize the game in terms of 'marketing'.
post=132103post=AznAs an addendum to that, when choosing what images to upload to your gameprofile, try to pick a good variety of evocative screenshots. Think of the screenshot tab of your gameprofile like an executive summary of your game - choose the ones that best exemplify your game and how it will play.
lots of good points
Alternatively if you add a massive amount of screenshots it will enter more chances into the random roulette that determines which screens appear on the main page, and appearing on the main page gives your game a good chance at clicks (it's why Featured Game is like an automatic +500 downloads, minimum, and super important) although to be fair:
A) If all the screenshots are shitty, no one will click them anyway even if they do show up on the main page through brute force numbers.
B) The amount of screenshots you'd need to post to be working the system is pretty stupid already.
C) The more games people post, the less this matters. It is like buying n out of x raffle tickets, where x is not only a huge number but one that is constantly expanding. Eventually the difference between having 5 and 50 tickets will not be that noticeable.
D) This is obviously pretty annoying.
Anyway, with that very silly discourse aside, I have a good question:
Is it acceptable to hype completed games? If you have a game you finished two or three or five or six years ago, should you still be actively trying to get people to download it, or not? I'd like to hear thoughts from both sides here.
I'd like to point out that screenshots of the menu/save/load screen are really bad if you're using RM's default menu, all you're really doing is like... showing off facesets and the system graphix. Doesn't really characterize the game in terms of 'marketing'.
I'm semi-guilty of it but usually to show off my (sometimes creative/absurd) use of various scripts like this and this.
I am of the opinion that once you "ship" a completed game (and I mean a game that you are no longer working on or fixing bugs for) you should let it stand on its own merits. Make a gameprofile, maybe post a blog post about its development history and leave it be. Maybe release a new blog post now and again if you have something new to share about it, like a fan-made add-on or video or something.
Rowan
131
I think it's best to promote your game at a couple of mainstream communities for awhile just to get more people aware that it exists. Afterwards, you should let it be like Kentona said.
Agreed.
It's time to move on to your next project and aim to better yourself. That's usually what happens to me (reason I've never posted any full games over the last 9 or 10 years), I get newer and better ideas and eventually try to forget my old games. Otherwise I start thinking about what they 'could have been' instead of what they are. It's nice to be proud of your back catalogue, but I'll never understand that.
It's time to move on to your next project and aim to better yourself. That's usually what happens to me (reason I've never posted any full games over the last 9 or 10 years), I get newer and better ideas and eventually try to forget my old games. Otherwise I start thinking about what they 'could have been' instead of what they are. It's nice to be proud of your back catalogue, but I'll never understand that.
AznChipmunk
4613
Depends. If you are working on more projects in the future, market that stuff when it's ready to market (which I talked about earlier.) Otherwise if it's not ready to market, don't waste time marketing and work on the game instead.
But if you are essentially done with gamemaking which I doubt people around here are, then go ahead and market what you've finished... just don't be annoying about it.
Of course, after a certain period (probably like 1-2 years), stop marketing it in the same places (or just stop marketing it at all.)
But if you are essentially done with gamemaking which I doubt people around here are, then go ahead and market what you've finished... just don't be annoying about it.
Of course, after a certain period (probably like 1-2 years), stop marketing it in the same places (or just stop marketing it at all.)
Also, to use a professional game as an example of GOOD MARKETING; I'd like to add that the hype generated, and the marketing (even, and especially post release) of a game like Mass Effect 2 is at least partly responsible for it being one of my favorite games of all time. It's not as if it's hype speaks for the game, no the game ITSELF is literally one of the finest I've ever played, ever (the game really would, and has sold itself). But the way Bioware presents it is the icing on the cake. Assuming you have the potential to be interested in it in the first place, they MAKE YOU want to play it. They SUCK YOU IN.
Cool trailers and screenshots and shit? Yeah, they got that, standard stuff. But how many developers go the extra mile by having shit like an in-universe Daily News (chronicling events that happens in the (large and expansive) Mass Effect universe) that's updated every day? Novels that detail background on characters that are actually interesting and well written? Comics that fill in the timelind gaps between the two games? Bioware has done such a good job with hyping up the Mass Effect series that they'd literally probably convince me to buy a Commander Shepard blow up doll and I can tell you right now that I'll be the line for Mass Effect 3 as well.
There are a ton of other examples of video games doing 'good hype', but that example stuck out to me because I'm about to play some ME2 right now (new character DLC) and said hype is actually backed up by a GOOD PRODUCT. There's nothing wrong with getting people excited for your shit if you have good shit.
Cool trailers and screenshots and shit? Yeah, they got that, standard stuff. But how many developers go the extra mile by having shit like an in-universe Daily News (chronicling events that happens in the (large and expansive) Mass Effect universe) that's updated every day? Novels that detail background on characters that are actually interesting and well written? Comics that fill in the timelind gaps between the two games? Bioware has done such a good job with hyping up the Mass Effect series that they'd literally probably convince me to buy a Commander Shepard blow up doll and I can tell you right now that I'll be the line for Mass Effect 3 as well.
There are a ton of other examples of video games doing 'good hype', but that example stuck out to me because I'm about to play some ME2 right now (new character DLC) and said hype is actually backed up by a GOOD PRODUCT. There's nothing wrong with getting people excited for your shit if you have good shit.
