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BONUSES VERSUS SETBACKS
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CloseIt might not trickle down to EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF EQUIPMENT, but look at the difference between base character builds in Dragon Age: Origins and Final Fantasy (the latter was a whole). In DA:O, race, class and specializations add subtle bonuses. In FF, the difference between the starting stats of a Black Mage and Warrior is very recognizable - BM has less health than average and Warrior has much more health than average, for example - and the gap grows steadily as the classes level. There is still a gap in DA:O, but it grows more slowly and every stat is useful for every character.
This is why I say that jRPGs are more setback-oriented in general. In Tales of the Abyss, your Black Mage-type character, Jade, has less HP than the average character (like, say, Anise). In Mass Effect 2, Miranda doesn't have less HP - the Krogan just has more. In TotA, equipping a Core (determines your level-up stats) basically decides whether or not a character is going to build in a certain manner. In ME2, leveling up Miranda lets you choose her party-wide bonus stat passive.
This is why I say that jRPGs are more setback-oriented in general. In Tales of the Abyss, your Black Mage-type character, Jade, has less HP than the average character (like, say, Anise). In Mass Effect 2, Miranda doesn't have less HP - the Krogan just has more. In TotA, equipping a Core (determines your level-up stats) basically decides whether or not a character is going to build in a certain manner. In ME2, leveling up Miranda lets you choose her party-wide bonus stat passive.
I guess you could go so far as to say any game with limits (like, say, equip slots) have inherent setbacks on everything - by using the Longsword in your weapon slot, you have to forgo the Great Axe. Even things like (again, Pokes) Flamethrower count - it's a powerful Fire attack with no strings attached... until you look at stuff like Fire Blast, Flare Blitz, and Sacred Fire that all have either more power than it or a higher burn rate. They all have something Flamethrower doesn't, in exchange for a greater setback like a higher miss rate or lower uses.
Simonsez
252
I think it depends on where you are at in the game. If you are in the beginning having setbacks could punish the character early, why figure out the mechanics and power of magic if one of your first equips drains MP and lowers the effectiveness of magic? The player shouldn't be punished for experimenting at the beginning of the game. Later on is when setbacks should be applied more, by then the player has a feel for the game and has developed a decent strategy to how they battle (Magic everywhere? Berserk and haste like no other?). Since everyone is going with pokemon think of it like that, at the beginning you have scratch, growl and ember. These have no setbacks and lets the player go with what he wants, sooner or later setbacks and more effective attacks appear, you then have to make a strategy based around these moves.
post=140100
I think it depends on where you are at in the game. If you are in the beginning having setbacks could punish the character early, why figure out the mechanics and power of magic if one of your first equips drains MP and lowers the effectiveness of magic? The player shouldn't be punished for experimenting at the beginning of the game. Later on is when setbacks should be applied more, by then the player has a feel for the game and has developed a decent strategy to how they battle (Magic everywhere? Berserk and haste like no other?). Since everyone is going with pokemon think of it like that, at the beginning you have scratch, growl and ember. These have no setbacks and lets the player go with what he wants, sooner or later setbacks and more effective attacks appear, you then have to make a strategy based around these moves.
That's still a game based on setback design. It's just easing the player into the mechanics, first.
I'm personally more of a fan of bonuses than setbacks. The player just has to choose their bonus, like with equipment slots. You get +A or +B, not both! (Not to say setbacks don't have their place)
One advantage to bonuses is they feel more like the player is getting better shit and a feel of progression from Wooden Sticks to Doom Sabers. One possible downfall of setbacks is the player may not feel like they are getting overall stronger, just trading something in for strength. Even if it is just a placebo effect. I can't think of any games with this problem but I'm sure I didn't just pull it out of nowhere.
Also there is a huge setback to using Miranda in ME2:
One advantage to bonuses is they feel more like the player is getting better shit and a feel of progression from Wooden Sticks to Doom Sabers. One possible downfall of setbacks is the player may not feel like they are getting overall stronger, just trading something in for strength. Even if it is just a placebo effect. I can't think of any games with this problem but I'm sure I didn't just pull it out of nowhere.
Also there is a huge setback to using Miranda in ME2:
her face
Neophyte
155
Hey, she's pretty in real life. Bioware makes beautiful faces ugly. =(
But yeah, this.
I'm personally more of a fan of bonuses than setbacks. The player just has to choose their bonus, like with equipment slots. You get +A or +B, not both! (Not to say setbacks don't have their place)
But yeah, this.
Kaempfer
1932
Oblivion, a Western RPG, is heavily based on setbacks. Most equipment lowers one stat while raising another- the stuff that ONLY raises states costs a bumload of money. If you're a mage, be prepared to be awful at combat- I know this because I specifically started a mage and then built him and trained him to be a fighter from day... two, let's say. He is still a better mage than he is warrior, somehow! I will continue on with his and see if I can't make him not useless.
