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THE GOAL OF A GAME
Posts
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
LockeZ
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CloseTo me, the goal of a game is to progress through the dungeons, beat the bosses, complete the story if there is one. These are the primary challenges, and the measure of progress in the game. Gaining power is a means to that end. As a result I strongly dislike games where you can grind your power up to be able to overpower the game's challenges without having to depend on strategy.
To one of my friends, the goal of a game is to become more powerful. Bosses are only important in that they block your progress and often drop equipment or powerups. Story is likewise simply a means to end, and the reason for him to play a game's story is because it unlocks additional power. The ultimate goal is to become as strong as he can. The final boss of a game is generally ignored, as there is no reason to defeat it unless it opens up a New Game+ mode.
I'm wondering which of these two views is more common? What do you guys see as the means versus the end when playing an RPG? Or is the goal in a game something completely different, to you?
To one of my friends, the goal of a game is to become more powerful. Bosses are only important in that they block your progress and often drop equipment or powerups. Story is likewise simply a means to end, and the reason for him to play a game's story is because it unlocks additional power. The ultimate goal is to become as strong as he can. The final boss of a game is generally ignored, as there is no reason to defeat it unless it opens up a New Game+ mode.
I'm wondering which of these two views is more common? What do you guys see as the means versus the end when playing an RPG? Or is the goal in a game something completely different, to you?
Story progression and watching numbers get bigger. Seriously, there's nothing like starting out dealing a hundred or so damage each turn and then dishing out 99,999+ by the end.
Tonfa
150
I desire entertainment. Here are several ways to provide entertainment for me.
- Tactically stimulating battles. The more on the wire the better.
- A customizable system that does not descend into overcomplicated micromanagement hell.
- Characters whose actions and destinies I care about.
- An engrossing game world with optional content and dialogue to explore.
- The game not forcing you into a single True Path. If I -want- to grind for whatever reason, let me. If I want to try an outlandish setup, let me. The option to grind does nothing to detract from the game's difficulty - I choose my own challenge level.
- Tactically stimulating battles. The more on the wire the better.
- A customizable system that does not descend into overcomplicated micromanagement hell.
- Characters whose actions and destinies I care about.
- An engrossing game world with optional content and dialogue to explore.
- The game not forcing you into a single True Path. If I -want- to grind for whatever reason, let me. If I want to try an outlandish setup, let me. The option to grind does nothing to detract from the game's difficulty - I choose my own challenge level.
honestly why do games start off with 100+ damage start with ~10 damage out of ~40 HP
Why do people have such a hard-on for numbers that force them to round in their head? There's no redeeming value in it at all.
Why do people have such a hard-on for numbers that force them to round in their head? There's no redeeming value in it at all.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
post=150484
I desire entertainment.
Not really what I was asking. Obviously the point of every game is to enjoy it, that's basically the definition of a game. And everyone has different particular systems they care about. But I'm asking something much more basic than that. Every video game has to have a goal. Something that you are trying to do in the game.
What I'm asking is, in an RPG, what do you consider to be the goal you're working towards? What is the measurement of progress? Is it your power, or the dungeons and bosses you've completed? Which of those two goals do you think of as being the means to perform the other one?
In Tetris the goal is obvious, it's to get points. In an RPG it's not that obvious, and in my above example, I consider the goal of FF6 to be defeating Kefka, and maxing out my characters is only a necessary intermediate step. While my friend considers the goal of FF6 to be maxing out all his characters, and the defeat of Kefka is just a sidequest that grants no reward, and therefore has no purpose.
AznChipmunk
4613
Depends on the genre. If it's adventure or RPG, it's all about the story for me, usually.
Tonfa
150
post=150489
What I'm asking is, in an RPG, what do you consider to be the goal you're working towards? What is the measurement of progress? Is it your power, or the dungeons and bosses you've completed? Which of those two goals do you think of as being the means to perform the other one?
It depends.
It could be defeating Darkdeath Evilman and seeing the ending. It could be loading the clear save and defeating superboss Ultradeath Evilmaster. It could be pushing the limits of the system and finding the setup that defeats Darkdeath Evilman in one turn. It could be just screwing around and quitting before the final boss because Darkdeath Evilman is a terribly designed final boss that is 500 times harder than the rest of the game and the plot sucked anyway. It could be defeating Darkdeath Evilman with the lowest possible party level and using no items.
eplipswich
2728
For me, in an RPG, my goal is never to grind. But whenever i encounter enemies, I will always fight them (well, almost always). So my progress in an RPG depends on my story progression. And ultimately, to defeat the final boss of course.
Story to me is one of the important reasons why i play RPGs. As for optional content, usually i don't touch them unless i wanna take a break from the main storyline. And if there are any remaining optional content left before the final boss, I will strive to finish them all :)
Story to me is one of the important reasons why i play RPGs. As for optional content, usually i don't touch them unless i wanna take a break from the main storyline. And if there are any remaining optional content left before the final boss, I will strive to finish them all :)
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
post=150491
It depends.
It could be defeating Darkdeath Evilman and seeing the ending. It could be loading the clear save and defeating superboss Ultradeath Evilmaster. It could be pushing the limits of the system and finding the setup that defeats Darkdeath Evilman in one turn. It could be just screwing around and quitting before the final boss because Darkdeath Evilman is a terribly designed final boss that is 500 times harder than the rest of the game and the plot sucked anyway. It could be defeating Darkdeath Evilman with the lowest possible party level and using no items.
So, it's always about the boss in some way or another. Even when you don't beat it, it's because you quit - not because you never considered it a goal to be done in the first place.
It's not really possible to give the answer "it depends" anyway. We're talking about the generic case, about the RPG genre as a whole. But you answered it for me, so that's fine.
post=150497
And ultimately, to defeat the final boss of course.
This seems to be what most people consider the goal of an RPG, yeah. I'm trying to figure out how common my friend's viewpoint is, so I know whether it's worth accomodating in my games.
Darken
3952
My goal is to play the game through completion. Most of the time it's the normal ending or final boss. I rarely give a shit about 100% runs, it's not because the side quests or w/e seem inadequate to me, I'm just not very good at beating games in a super fast pace, so I just decide "well, let me just beat the damn game" when confronted with a side quest. Once in awhile there is an exception, like I really find the game's world interesting and possibly want to find out more about the characters I'm controlling or maybe I just really like the game and feel like getting that 100% to call myself a loyal fan or w/e.
also fuck sandbox games
also fuck sandbox games
post=150528
I rarely give a shit about 100% runs
i am completely the opposite.
i have gotten better about keeping it in check as i've gotten older, but my severe crippling OCD will not let me NOT get fucking everything. especially if it's zelda.
fuck you zelda 2. fuck you forever.
Yeaster
6164
I rarely give a shit about 100% runs
Same here. I almost never touch side quests on the first play through. It takes me a long time to beat the main path as it is.
Crystalgate
694
One of the goals I have is to finish the game. This usually means beating the last boss, but a few games don't have a last boss. That's perfectly fine for me though, I rarely feel much anticipation for facing the final boss anyway. What I really want is a sense of closure. I want to feel like the story is over.
Another goal I strive for is good phasing, usually between story and gameplay. Having either to long dungeons or to long cutscenes bores me and if possible i try to speed things up. If the dungeon is to long I may start running from battles and if cutscenes are to long I may fast forward trough non essential dialogs.
It doesn't have to be between story and gameplay trough, if the gameplay is varied enough I may switch between the various gameplay elements there are.
Another goal I strive for is good phasing, usually between story and gameplay. Having either to long dungeons or to long cutscenes bores me and if possible i try to speed things up. If the dungeon is to long I may start running from battles and if cutscenes are to long I may fast forward trough non essential dialogs.
It doesn't have to be between story and gameplay trough, if the gameplay is varied enough I may switch between the various gameplay elements there are.
AznChipmunk
4613
post=150548post=150528i am completely the opposite.
I rarely give a shit about 100% runs
i have gotten better about keeping it in check as i've gotten older, but my severe crippling OCD will not let me NOT get fucking everything. especially if it's zelda.
fuck you zelda 2. fuck you forever.
yeah I always get 100% runs if I can, i almost never finish games because of this
Shinan
4314
The main goal for me in RPGs is to be playing my character. Usually this means trying to find a non-violent solution to most problems in the game. (and occasionally doing the violent solution when some people just annoy me that much)
Fighting random goons i probably the part I enjoy the least in RPGs. I played Mass Effect (not finished it yet) and it was always fun when I could talk to people and "play my character" (though 90% of the time there was no choice to play my actual character. But at least I got to pick the option closest) and when I did that I sometimes wanted to kill the people I talked to and sometimes not. What I did not want to do was kill random goons. Like when I walked around on a planet and saw a pirate colony or whatever I didn't really feel like killing them but when I got within a certain distance they always started shooting at me so I wasn't really given a choice.
So yeah playing my character and having a unique experience. ("what did you do at x?" "I never got to that point because I did y instead of z at n")
Fighting random goons i probably the part I enjoy the least in RPGs. I played Mass Effect (not finished it yet) and it was always fun when I could talk to people and "play my character" (though 90% of the time there was no choice to play my actual character. But at least I got to pick the option closest) and when I did that I sometimes wanted to kill the people I talked to and sometimes not. What I did not want to do was kill random goons. Like when I walked around on a planet and saw a pirate colony or whatever I didn't really feel like killing them but when I got within a certain distance they always started shooting at me so I wasn't really given a choice.
So yeah playing my character and having a unique experience. ("what did you do at x?" "I never got to that point because I did y instead of z at n")
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
So the ultimate task any game to you is RP? Really? All forms of gameplay exist only to facilitate this?
That's a new one. Not that it doesn't make sense, but it's very surprising. To most people that is considered an optional add-on or even a tacky gimmick. Not their end goal when they insert a new game into their console.
That's a new one. Not that it doesn't make sense, but it's very surprising. To most people that is considered an optional add-on or even a tacky gimmick. Not their end goal when they insert a new game into their console.
Darken
3952
role playing in a role playing game? you're fucking crazy dude. Idk I actually tried to do this in games like Oblivion or other sand box RPGs where you can do ANYTHING. But then you realize every mechanic is done in a mediocre fashion for the sake of having a ton of them. Kind of lose interesting in playing the role of my character when it's not even that exciting (lol oblivion combat).
My goal in an RPG is pretty typical - beat the final big bad with a near optimal party. While I am not quite obsessive enough to need 100% completion, I strive for it to the point that I put in nearly double the time the game requires to defeat it (ie- if an RPG requires, say 20hrs to beat the game, I end up putting in 40 hrs playing it before I beat it the first time since I explore everything I find). But everything I do needs to have a point. I can't just wander around the game aimlessly and have fun doing it. I need to be completing some quest or mission all the time.
This playstyle makes me hate sandbox games and MMOs.
This playstyle makes me hate sandbox games and MMOs.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
post=150732
But everything I do needs to have a point. I can't just wander around the game aimlessly and have fun doing it. I need to be completing some quest or mission all the time.
This playstyle makes me hate sandbox games and MMOs.
I understand that this would make you become frustrated with, say, Grand Theft Auto, where most people just drive around and blow random things up for hours. Everything you do in MMOs has a point though. The point is to get stronger, and tasks in MMOs always facilitate this in some way, usually by offering gold or experience or loot. Are you saying that getting stronger is not in and of itself an acceptable end goal? This would contradict my friend's viewpoint pretty directly.
