YDS' LET'S TRY THREAD

post=206829

post=206821
Shouldn't the game be fun from the start???

Many RPGs don't pick up until you've at least gotten past the second town or its equivalent. This is perfectly normal in any game commercial or otherwise, but especially RPGs. One example I can think of is pokemon, where you're stuck with tackle and growl for the first part of the game, but it picks up once you get a team going and start evolving shit.

This can be also observed in other media like books/movies, where first you might not be into the characters or you have no idea what the story is about (which is expected... because, you are in the beginning of the story), but then the characters or the plot twists get to you and you end up enjoying it later. To have a game that just hooks the player from the very beginning is an extremely hard thing to pull off, and it isn't fair to ask for every game. If a game can pick up after a while then it is a job well done.

To expect instant gratification every second of playing something is a pretty juvenile mindset.

. . .

Shouldn't the game be fun from the start???

Shouldn't the game be fun from the start???

gamefun

fun

I don't think I've legitimately had fun with any JRPG during the beginning of the games. I try very hard to be immensed by the slimes I encounter and killing them with fire I and spamming attack, but I fail.

It is hard to enjoy a game when you're arsenal, attacks, enemies are limited compared to say, when you are 5 hours into the game.
Though being limited defines the beginning of a game, it would actually be bad design if you overwhelm the player too much at first. You have to ease in the player, and frankly, however necessary, the easing in can very often be boring, though there is nothing wrong with that.

In one of my games I had the opening areas of the game include monsters that were typically what you'd expect (difficulty wise) from mid game. See, I had made a vast selection of equipment available in the first town and there was a shop that sold ten different skills, so I thought with these things the player would be able to easily use tactics and such to destroy the enemies of the first dungeon.

Instead, I got nothing but complaints that it was "too hard" or that people were overwhelmed. Thus, from then on, I eased off a bit. That's why in Legionwood you fight snakes and things at the start that you can beat by spamming attack, but you also have the AP system available and an arsenal of about five different skills. I've tried to find the balance between "easing the player in" and "too complicated" and I haven't found it yet.

Yeah, that's what I did about Legionwood. Basically, I adopted the philosophy of "sure you can kill them by spamming attack, but you do have skills as well, and they also have weaknesses."

bahleted

Dudes need to play more IPoP. I did my best to throw you into the first mission and at two moderately challenging bosses right at the get-go, with several skills on each character. How did I justify this? I started the player off with lots of attacking and healing items (and told the player to use them) and made various enemies specifically weak to one or the other starting characters' skills (and had a mini-tutorial on each skill's use), as well as the new weapon you could pick up.

I got some complaints about difficulty, which is understandable because it was hard. I think people were able to get into it more, though - and on top of that, you get to assassinate a prince in the first fifteen minutes of the game. You can't ask for a much quicker or interesting hook. (Then you explore a cave. Could have picked up on that energy better, methinks.)

But what does Craze know? ::D

EDIT: WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT you need a hook and fun gameplay from the start. If you don't, you're a moron who gives in to the worst of the jRPG tropes.

Look at some big wRPGs:
-Oblivion: You break out of prison with the fucking emperor and are attacked by fucking assassins
-Fallout 3: After a short sequence of learning the basics (in which you get to punch and mock people, if you want), you suddenly have to fight for your life and make big choices on the fly to escape
-The Witcher: Big enemies. Lots of little enemies. Giant magic spells. Boobies. I think there are two possible bosses to encounter in the prologue alone, based on your choices. It's all streamlined into a very nice and integrated tutorial

Look at some jRPGs that get it right:
-Final Fantasy X-2: First, you're baffled by the inclusion of a concert (during which Rikku and Paine are kicking ass). What is Yuna wearing, anyway? Then bam, you're killing various types of goons - and stealing from them - to get used to the slick ATB, and suddenly you fight two boss battles, learn about the game's two coolest mechanics (Gunner and Sphere Change) and send the Goldfish Poop Gang crying into the sunset
-Tales of the Abyss: It starts off with Luke wandering around and bitching about how he's cooped up, then you get teleported out of the castle it's been established you're locked into, all because some chick you saw in the intro just tried to assassinate your mentor after putting all of the guards to sleep with some singing and holy shit now she's in the party what is going on and that is a BIG landship and wait I'm in enemy territory and whaaaaaaaat
-Odin Sphere: This game is pretty much non-stop hooks and killing fairies
-Xenosaga 3: Dog fight while flying around a city, then an infiltration mission as the MC, a character you wanted to play as outside of E.S. segments for all of XS2 and Shion's weapon developer (who you've also never been able to play). You're assisted by a crazy chick which an awesome E.S. and speaks Latin a lot

bahleted

post=206954
... but I'm still willing to give the start of a game a little leeway because I know that some developers want to ease non-familar players into their gameplay.

Exactly. In my stupidity, I always forsee someone completely new to RPGs playing the game, so I have to include the "Techs brings up a list of skills you can use on the enemy" and etc.