WAYS TO IMPROVE THE COMMUNITY/MAINTAIN ITS AWESOMENESS.

just what are you trying to say

author=LockeZ
But if the game is a piece of garbage, then they should know. They should know that it's not just that I didn't like it. They need to know everything that's bad about it so that they can fix it as well as possible.

If they're so upset by this that they don't fix the problems, then I don't really consider it a loss. If I hadn't pointed out the problems, they wouldn't have fixed them anyway. If they can't handle learning that their game has severe problems without having a breakdown, then they're not cut out for creating things and should find a non-creative hobby or get counseling.

In short, just say exactly what you mean. Giving inaccurate feedback helps no one.

That's kind of an elitist view of things. "if your not as good as I am at taking hurtful negative criticism than you don't deserve to be part of this community". Your saying anyone who is hurt by mean things isn't worth 2 cents. Some people here are just kids(relative, around 15-16 yrs), some are bullied in real life or maybe they're just a person to take things personal. You don't know the person on the other end. Some of us pour our heart and soul into game making and often times if you only know your own work, you think it's great. Having someone berate you on all that hard work can be devastating. As a community we should be helping each other grow with positive feedback and reinforcement, not negative comments and insults.

Just be nice. (it's a recurring theme!)

You can point out all the things wrong with their game without being insulting. That's the whole point. If something is terrible it can always be put forth in a positive constructive way. If you want to provide feedback, be positive about(or at least neutral) or don't say anything at all. It's not part of your duties to provide feedback in the first place. If you provide feedback you are doing so by choice, and you also have the choice of how to present it. Being part of a community means supporting the community, not trying to bring it down.

Also, if we just accept the "lol it's the internet" frame of mind we can never move past it. But that's a bigger problem ^.^;

author=undefined

author=LockeZ
But if the game is a piece of garbage, then they should know. They should know that it's not just that I didn't like it. They need to know everything that's bad about it so that they can fix it as well as possible.

If they're so upset by this that they don't fix the problems, then I don't really consider it a loss. If I hadn't pointed out the problems, they wouldn't have fixed them anyway. If they can't handle learning that their game has severe problems without having a breakdown, then they're not cut out for creating things and should find a non-creative hobby or get counseling.

In short, just say exactly what you mean. Giving inaccurate feedback helps no one.

That's kind of an elitist view of things. "if your not as good as I am at taking hurtful negative criticism than you don't deserve to be part of this community". Your saying anyone who is hurt by mean things isn't worth 2 cents. Some people here are just kids(relative, around 15-16 yrs), some are bullied in real life or maybe they're just a person to take things personal. You don't know the person on the other end. Some of us pour our heart and soul into game making and often times if you only know your own work, you think it's great. Having someone berate you on all that hard work can be devastating. As a community we should be helping each other grow with positive feedback and reinforcement, not negative comments and insults.

Just be nice. (it's a recurring theme!)

You can point out all the things wrong with their game without being insulting. That's the whole point. If something is terrible it can always be put forth in a positive constructive way. If you want to provide feedback, be positive about(or at least neutral) or don't say anything at all. It's not part of your duties to provide feedback in the first place. If you provide feedback you are doing so by choice, and you also have the choice of how to present it. Being part of a community means supporting the community, not trying to bring it down.

Also, if we just accept the "lol it's the internet" frame of mind we can never move past it. But that's a bigger problem ^.^;

Pointing something out that's wrong is the definition of being insulting. It's also the definition of being helpful. Insulting and helpful are exactly the same thing. People just call helpfulness "insulting" when they don't want help or don't like the person who's being helpful or have some other sort of illogical emotional reaction. It's a stupid point of view.

Everyone's number one goal in this community should be to improve games and game-development ideas, be they our own or each-others'. If someone gives you opinions or advice, then you are better off for it. Period. It will make you a better game designer, which is the one thing that matters.

If you couch your criticism of my ideas in niceties, de-emphasise it for the sake of my feelings, or reword it to avoid making me think my game is as bad as it really is, you are doing me an extreme disservice. You are risking the quality of my game for the sake of being a people pleaser. That is absolutely unacceptable. I would be extremely angry at you if I learned you had treated me this way. And the least I can do is extend the courtesy to other people that I expect them to provide me.

Also, I cannot possibly disagree more with the idea that giving feedback is optional. If you have no intention of helping other people, get the hell out of the community, and don't come back. We don't need you leeching off of everyone else's goodwill without providing anything at all in return.

author=undefined
http://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/7452/?post=227151#post227151

Nothing pained me more regarding the RM community this month than reading what Dark Gaia experienced spreading the Misaos.

Well that's crappy.

Criticism is never hurtful. It is by definition helpful, unless you're lying. How can pointing out legitimate flaws in a game make it worse? It can't. It can only make it better. More information only makes work become better, not worse. Giving a creator more information can only improve their games, it can't hurt them.

"if you're not as good as I am at taking hurtful negative criticism then you don't deserve to be part of this community".

It's not that you don't deserve to be part of this community, per se. It's just that you need to learn to take it better. It's the games that matter, not the people. When you're creating something, you need to learn to let your pride go for the sake of the creation. I don't think people should be kicked out of the site for being pussies; I just think they should learn to not be pussies.

Dude. Most people learned in kindergarten that sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me. Maybe you should go back and repeat it until that lesson sticks? As people grow up, they are taught that their confidence should come from within, not from other people. That's a basic elementary point of being a healthy human being.

Besides, this isn't a support group for people who hate themselves. This is a game development site. The games come first. The people are just there to create games.

Yes, I disagree with that.

Politeness/tact by definition means being less direct and not really saying exactly what you mean. This is detrimental to communication.

You seem to have understood what I was saying this time just fine. So, I think it's working okay.

Pointing something out that's wrong is the definition of being insulting.

Oh my, well let's check with the judges on that:

Wikipedia - An insult (also called a putdown) is an expression, statement (or sometimes behavior) which is considered degrading and offensive.

Webster's Dictionary - to treat with insolence, indignity, or contempt : also : to affect offensively or damagingly <that insults the reader's intelligence>

It's also the definition of being helpful.

Judges?

Wikipedia - In social psychology, the everyday concept of helpfulness is really technically defined as (1) the property of providing useful assistance, and (2) friendliness evidenced by a kindly and helpful disposition .

Webster's - of service or assistance : useful <helpful advice>

Insulting and helpful are exactly the same thing.

You were saying?

If someone gives you opinions or advice, then you are better off for it. Period. It will make you a better game designer, which is the one thing that matters.

This is correct. This statement doesn't take into account positive/negative words. This is the main idea, we should be giving opinions and advice. Feedback.

Ok, so now if you see a screenshot of a weapon store with an NPC standing alone in the middle you have a few ways of going about providing feedback.

Positive: "It's a good start but you should include some additional objects to fill out the room"
Neutral: "Needs more objects."
Negative: "This looks like shit, it's nothing but empty space. How many stores that you go to just have one guy in the whole building? Put some boxs or something dumbass"

(hahahaha, I'm just laughing at myself)

They all let the person know the problem but which one do think is going to be better received by the developer?

What you fail to understand is that not everybody is strong willed. You say we go through life learning that confidence comes from within and "stick and stones...". We also go through life with bullies and images of what "perfection" should be in the media. Do you really think that every kid has an equal amount of support and positive reinforcement? WTF are all those emo's complaining about then?? So many people come from broken homes, abusive/neglecting parents, they go through life being made fun of how they look and how they act.

We're not all robots, indeed.

Also, I cannot possibly disagree more with the idea that giving feedback is optional. If you have no intention of helping other people, get the hell out of the community, and don't come back. We don't need you leeching off of everyone else's goodwill without providing anything at all in return.

Goodwill leeching? Does that mean if someone comments on your stuff then you should comment on theirs? That's not exactly what it means to be part of the community. You can be part of the community by discussing website design and helping with events while never giving a single piece of advice to another developer. I don't think people are commenting just to get comments in return.