THE SCREENSHOT TOPIC RETURNS

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Been working on an updated version of my Lite Cookoff game. (In full VX Ace.)

I've been thinking of extending the forest a lot.


What do you guys think? Does it look all right?
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6138
@Arandomgamemaker: That's way too much. Dial it back.

I mean it would be an okay size if it were a cool area, but there's absolutely nothing there. Just delete the right half of the map, IMO. And then put some more stuff in the half you have left to change things up. I don't mean "change every third tree to a different kind of tree and add ten or so purple flowers scattered around", because that doesn't give me anything new to look at, not really. Not anything I care about. What's in this area that I care about? Why is it a place I have to explore instead of just part of the world map? So I mean to try to add something landmarky, like "put a house and a water tower near the bottom, and set one section of the forest up in some cliffs, and add a clearing with something neat in the middle, and put a bone pit where a bunch of corpses have been dumped, and maybe a couple other things".

@Xenomic: Stop making these areas ASAP, they are really bad. Even if they're absolutely necessary to the game for some unfathomable reason, two is definitely enough. All the same problems exist as before: heights don't match up, edges don't make sense, it's waaaaaaaay too big, it's completely empty, there's nothing to catch the eye or act as a landmark, it's utterly generic, etc.

Just to prove how massive this is, I made a present for you. It's the same room, at the same scale, with everything exactly the same, but the empty parts edited out of the middle to make it about half as much area.



Doesn't that look much nicer? If you made it that size, and one other map that size, and those two maps were the entire dungeon, it would be about the right size for a large dungeon. Instead you have a dungeon six times the size of a large dungeon.

Then you would just need to make it interesting and cool. But I already tried to help you come up with ideas of how to do that, so I won't beat a dead horse. That part's mostly up to you, anyway, since it's more about creativity than design.
Again, I'm not very good at keeping things small scale. Always thinking I need more room than I do because of how I design rooms (and just never go back because rescaling things and all that is just arrrrrrgh). Also, it's a maze dungeon...there's suppose to be several screens in a maze I would think. o__o


Yeah, I've been going with the void idea mentioned earlier, but that's later in the dungeon and not earlier.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6138
If there are parts without the void sections, they really need something else instead. Also, there's not a single doodad on this entire map.

Also, if this is a maze it's even bigger than it already would be. If an area of the size you're making were totally linear and had no random battles it would take a good 10 minutes just to walk through. Add random battles and that's probably over an hour. Turn it into a maze and that's four to six hours.

I could be wrong, I might be overestimating the amount of time your random battles take, or overestimating the number of maps or the number of forks. Try testing it by starting at the beginning, taking every single wrong path, taking a few of the wrong paths twice (because the player will forget), and fighting every random battle. See how long it takes to finish.

You want to see a good example of a maze area? Play, uh, actually I can't think of any, every single maze ever made in a video game has been awful. Though that's mostly because every dungeon is really a maze, so when you call something a "maze area" that actually means "maze dialed up to eleven", aka "ridiculously super long maze with tons and tons of dead-end paths", which I kind of think is basically just a horrible idea for a video game level. Exploration is only fun when there are things to find, either tangible or visible, and preferably both; exploring empty hallways isn't fun. Zelda dungeons probably come the closest to being fine of the games I can think of with maze dungeons, because there's so much else going on to distract you from the fact that you're hopelessly lost (and you get a map halfway through). They're more than just mazes. And I think that's the way to go.
That's because I never put them on yet (I also apparently forgot to fix the wall height on bottom right area where the third 1/2 floor is supposed to go down. Whoops). Also, that floating mass that LOOKS like it'd be like 1/2 a floor is the second floor, just a long bridge.

Also, for your record, there is 31 maps so far for this dungeon. Still not done yet sadly (most maps I've had to make...NOT intentional mind you. Just how the design lends itself in here). I've ran through the dungeon myself, and it's really not as big as one would think really. Of course, being a "maze" it will take a bit if you don't know the way (I should get rid of the HP sucking bats though I think...), but it's still not terribly long to get through. No random battles for this part because I didn't want to drag it on like that (there is a second part, but it's not a "maze" so it's safe to have random encounters there). So yeah, not as terrible as one would think in terms of how long it is. My end dungeon for beta4 is probably the longest dungeon in the game, and that's like...well, that depends on the player really.


Also keep in mind that this is supposed to be a dungeon halfway in the game so there's that (and yes, this game is long. Roughly as it stands, 10-20 hours long).


I do agree though...mazes generally tend to suck pretty badly. I still have a couple other mazes (those have hints though), but they're still blah because mazes.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6138
If the game is 10-20 hours long, this dungeon will be the entire game.
Bahhh. Hardly! Want a dungeon that's annoying as hell and will take ages to do without a guide? Have fun with Clockwork Mansion or Arianrod Labyrinth in Valkyrie Profile! ;___;
Craze
i bet she's a diva with a potion popping problem
14510
this page is a very depressing page in the screenshot topic

xenomic i made and released a game here called Wine and Roses, which is comprised of one dungeon that is well over 31 maps large (although there are holes in the x/y grid). thing is, each map is only the size of the screen and it is STILL TOO BIG and is a bit annoying, even to me, the creator, who knows it perfectly.

so what is going on here is:

a) your screenshots are finished products, and are fucking boring, or

b) your screenshots are not finished products, in which case why are you showing off the same super-bland cave on every page

i say this because your maps are super-bland.

LET'S SAY YOU WANT TO MAKE A TWISTY-LOOKING DUNGEON OUT OF RUDRAS GRAPHICS, BUT YOU DON'T WANT IT TO SUCK HORRIBLY, well i wonder where you could find something to emulate and practice off of

http://spriters-resource.com/snes/treasurerudras/sheet/21163
http://spriters-resource.com/snes/treasurerudras/sheet/21161
http://spriters-resource.com/snes/treasurerudras/sheet/12336

http://www.reonis.com/rudra/maps.htm

Honestly, if you're going to make a game out of Rudras rips anyway you should just stop, drop and roll your way into a rom and the AeonGenesis translation because it's one of the finest RPGs ever crafted, and is probably better than your dungeon which, I kid you not, the entirety of Rudras could probably fit into.





LOOK AT THOSE CAVES

rudras is just plain prettier than your stretched-out botox injection of a cave


tl;dr
Wow, Craze and LockeZ thanks a lot. :D You provided handful tools for Xenomic.

Well, dear Xenomic, I also gave you this suggestion much earlier. Do the same maps, but cut the


Personally, I don't think I would enjoy to play a dungeon like you are creating right now. It's too big, it looks too boring (no doodads, straight walls while they should be uneven and random in a cave).

31+ huge maps like that. If you add an random encounter I would NEVER EVER EVER EVER put a foot into that game. I always hated the Victory Road in Pokémon games. And they used to have maps like you do, but only 3-4 of them.

I would suggest you now something like Craze did: check out the awesome maps of Rudra and try to copy them in your editor. You will get used to the tileset and whatever you are capable of doing with it.
And then try to copy a dungeon of a game that you like. That you really enjoyed. Don't try to make your own version: try to copy it. You will learn so much by doing so. If you want to be good at something. Just try to copy it, to learn and improve your skills. That's much better than starting from scratch.


Anyway:
Thanks for the compliments, I updated my screen by lightening the grass tiles, adding a new ground textures (gravels), adding flowers and changed the Parallax BG to the beloved RTP-Sky.



For reference, this is what I try to reference to: Huang Shan Mountain in China.



khazga
Perpetual Nuisance Machine
1000
Much nicer! Plus the contrast in the good ol' RTP sky helps a lot to define the foreground.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6138
I liked your other clouds better, Itaju. The RTP clouds are definitely brighter, the other ones made the mountain look stormy. And the RTP ones give off a much stronger sense that the mountain is floating in mid-air. But the other clouds were so pretty.


Made some changes based on the suggestions (and one of a very kind PM to me with an awesome edit).

Changes:
- White Flowers
- Waterfall that splits and runs through the mountain
- Changed back to the old BG (which is not moving, unfortunately) and changed the color values.

Btw. the trees and flowers are animated and blow in the wind. I don't know how to show it.
The most I can add are stalagmites and rocks. There's nothing else I can add otherwise to the map. *raises eyebrows*

Sides, as I've probably mentioned somewhere here (or at least elsewhere a lot of times), I am not a mapper at all. Mapping is NOT my strong point...just ain't my style. Though I still think saying that "31 maps = an entire game" is a big stretch personally...but that's me. I did look at earlier FF games for their final dungeons, and they were relatively small (8 for FFI, 10 for FFII, and 7 for FFIII IIRC). Though keep in mind, most of my dungeons run around 10 maps usually per dungeon (prior to beta4 stuff). If they were shorter than 10, it would just feel way too short for a dungeon at all (I do have random encounters set to 70-80 for most maps too so...whether or not that factors into anything, I don't know).

None of my caves in all honesty are "exciting" or "pretty". Again, there's not much for me to throw in them other than again, stalagmites and rocks. @_@;;
Well, just, try to be a bit creative.

What is the theme for the cave? What are the ihhabitants, the monsters, the secret, the boss???

If it is an evil magician show his victims. If it's a place where dwarves gain their iron ores make tracks for trolleys.

If you say it has 31 maps while other dungeons only have 10 it means that this dungeon has a significant meaning in your storyline. I don't think its just a cave. What makes your heroes go down that maze? Just think about it and you will find a solution to your emptiness.

Here my list of random suggestions for doodads:
- moss
- cave plants
- torches
- undeground vater
- crystals
- lost items and artifacts
- chests
- hot springs
- magma
- glowing insects
- old broken machines

You can also come up with stuff that won't naturally be there in the real world. Anyways, it is an RPG, there can be plants inside the cave which couldn't live there without sun (I bet there is magic in your game world).

once again:
check out the caves of other RPGs (mostly of the SNES times) and check out what you will see. Learn from other game creators, dude. :)
Itaju, I'd just like say this: HO-LY DAMN! Terrific job on that cliff, it looks fantastic now~ :D

(Though I could be wrong on this, but is a tile missing? See up above the sprites, there's a completely squareish part, like something's missing?) Well, other than that lil' thing it really looks great. :)
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6138
author=Xenomic
The most I can add are stalagmites and rocks. There's nothing else I can add otherwise to the map. *raises eyebrows*
You are wrong, you can add literally anything you want to the map. Stalagmites and rocks would be a start, though. I gave you a whole post full of ideas of things to add to them earlier, remember?
Aye, but that requires me to actually have them on the chipset, which for the most part I can't really put on because most of the tiles are used in various places throughout the game @_@;
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6138
You, uh, you can have different chipsets for different maps

Like I'm pretty sure my RM2K3 game has twenty different indoor castle chipsets with different objects and doodads

(You can also use events)
Umm... you never heard anything about a program called... gimp? (or paint?)
You can actually create tilesets. And you can add events as doodads to your map...

(under create, I mean paste together :))